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Whew! I come home to controversy! I probably won't be able to watch the final for a month or so (I'll get a DVD in the mail), but now I'm not sure I really want to.

I find it somewhat odd that people are saying this was an "anti-football" final...if you were expecting end-to-end stuff you were always going to be disappointed due to Spain's tactic of holding on to the ball. It is in fact Spain's extreme technical proficiency that makes games less end to end (like USA's 2-2 draw with Slovenia, a match I would argue was among the most exciting of the whole tournament). Spain are almost too good to create an exciting match. It sounds like the Dutch managed to hold on to the ball for a few spells but for most of the game they were chasing possession...

Good to hear that Dirk Kuyt remains a hero for not getting carded. :D I can't be too excited about Nigel De Jong, since he tried to snap USA midfielder Stuart Holden's leg in a friendly earlier this year. I guess I'll have to watch the match before I make any real judgements, but just going by the match reports it sounds like the Dutch probably got their tactics right - they knew Spain was the better side, but worked to smother their game and create a few chances. The Spanish like to go to ground and keep the ball, so the Dutch were always going to look like the villains.

Howard Webb: good performance/bad performance?

Re: ESPNs comment that "something has to change" with reffing - I now feel that FIFA's concept of reffing is different from most other sports. In most sports, the referee's job is to make the right call, no excuses. Instant replays and game-stoppages and technology are all tools the ref uses to make the right call. In football, on the other hand, FIFA treats the officials much like the players and manager - they are expected to make mistakes, they are part of the game rather than being omnipotent, and FIFA feels that bad calls are part of the football experience. They don't want to change that.

EDIT: I am glad to see that Müller won the Golden boot and Forlan won the Golden Ball - it's a way to recognize that Germany and Uruguay played big roles in the most exciting matches of the tournament. Forlan carried his team on his back, and Müller was one of several impressive young German players that surprised many of us in the course of the tournament.
 
Howard Webb: good performance/bad performance?

I thought he was good. Although he gave out a lot of cards, he didn't dictate the game. They weren't iffy calls. He could have handed out many more. In fact, the end of the game probably should have ended with about 8 players on the pitch for the Dutch and 10 for the Spanish.

Biggest mistake was awarding Spain a goal kick on what was clearly a corner (free kick, ball deflected).
 
By watching football since the 70’s with my own eyes and being involved in and playing football all my life. The Italians are renowned for it. I can remember watching old European cup matches when Brits teams played them and we were shocked at the lengths they would go to for getting a foul or an opposing player sent off.

Yep, from long observation. They haven't been alone for years now though, as seen by every World Cup. Ask any American today what they think of Ghana's theatrics. ;) Even Australian players are doing it all the time now too from playing in Europe leagues, Kewell specifically, which actually doesn't go down well with home audiences here. The Italians are still the masters at it and treat it most like an art form. In one of my previous posts, which Don't Panic probably refers to, I actually laughed about how an Italian actually paused mid-way through rolling his face in the grass in ultra agony to look up to see if the ref was actually paying attention.

I'd like to point out that I don't see milking a genuine foul situation as Iniesta did as being the same thing as blatant cheating (I used to, but it's part of the game now - I say Robben should have done it too). Blatant cheating is where they make things up like Rivaldo pretending to be hit in the face when he wasn't. But where do you draw the line? A lot of times it's just milking gone way too far, like the Kaka incident or Materazzi collapsing and rolling around like he was hit with a howitzer to get Zidane sent off with the score 1-1. Zidane shouldn't have done it, so it was a genuine foul, but Materazzi just took it too far into the realm of unsportsmanship. But it worked, got the ref's attention and the card. Result - Italy, 2006 World Champions.


if they didn't invent it they sure perfected it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W00d3yJKl4

-J.-

Ha ha, the look of genuine innocence and disbelief on his face. Like I said, they've taken it to an art form. Professional actors couldn't do it better. Academy Award material.

That's definitely cheating. Or is it milking just poorly timed? Had he fallen over at contact instead of waiting until he realized the ball was going out of reach...
 
The Italians are still the masters at it and treat it most like an art form.

I certainly would not be one to defend the Italians, but I would argue that South Americans are past-masters at diving and have been doing it at least as long as the Italians, though Italy is Europe's diving capital (with Spain running a close second).

Ghana engaged in a bit of diving and general time-wasting against USA late in the match, which really made the loss harder to take.
 
Ghana engaged in a bit of diving and general time-wasting against USA late in the match, which really made the loss harder to take.

Yeah, not being a typical watcher of the sport, I was pretty disgusted by it. It also irked me that the refs didn't bother to do anything about it.
 
Yeah, not being a typical watcher of the sport, I was pretty disgusted by it. It also irked me that the refs didn't bother to do anything about it.

I was in the same boat. I think it's disgusting and cowardly. Perhaps if a player goes down 'injured', they should be forced to be substituted off the field for some amount of time.
 
I think foreign players could learn a lot from the honesty of English players in this regard. You wouldn't catch the likes of Steven Gerrard, Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen disgracing themselves by resorting to diving. Oh no.
 
if they didn't invent it they sure perfected it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W00d3yJKl4

-J.-

haha. that was a pathetic performance, really.
anyways, i see your gilardino and raise you with this treasure chest or this hilarious one (kind of redundand, and both include the gilardino one, but others are much, much more egregious)

and if we are talking about perfectionists at the highest level of the game, i don't think anything can top the rivaldo's "invisible head shot" or the klinsmann angel dive (1990 WC FINAL), or maybe owen's or ronaldo's entire careers.
besides, isn't the grandfather of football divers considered to be City's Lee?

but probably you guys are right, they must be all italian actors infiltrating the other teams to give them a bad name. yup no prejudice at work here. sorry, my bad. :rolleyes:

Lord Blackadder said:
I certainly would not be one to defend the Italians, but I would argue that South Americans are past-masters at diving and have been doing it at least as long as the Italians, though Italy is Europe's diving capital (with Spain running a close second).
you should watch more EPL games then (of course it's only them darn foreigners doing it, as jaffa correctly pointed out: didn't M. Rooney himself declared "i would never dive"? and he never did.)
 
Howard Webb: good performance/bad performance?

Re: ESPNs comment that "something has to change" with reffing - I now feel that FIFA's concept of reffing is different from most other sports. In most sports, the referee's job is to make the right call, no excuses. Instant replays and game-stoppages and technology are all tools the ref uses to make the right call. In football, on the other hand, FIFA treats the officials much like the players and manager - they are expected to make mistakes, they are part of the game rather than being omnipotent, and FIFA feels that bad calls are part of the football experience. They don't want to change that.

on webb i would say a mixed game:few bad calls, and very likely all cards deserved (and quite a few not given though) but he missed to ability to keep control of the game with his presence, body language... would the game have turned into such a dirty battle under Colina a few years ago ? honestly i don't think so

actually i kind of agree with FIFA there... instant replays, challenges, time stoppages etc.i honestly don't think they have a place in football. just imagine if a coach had the ability for a challenge like in american football:

a. time isn't stopped: then it will be used for ridicilous time milking in the end of close games... substitutions are already bad enough used for that

b. time is stopped: imagine a game with turned momentum where for a few minutes a team just has a run or one team is struggeling hard .. in such a game situation how convinient it would be for a coach to use it to throw a wrench into the gears of an attacking team and give the own squad an easy minute to reorganize

considering the hate already for players "playing the clock" or doing dirty tricks ? unthinkable


regarding somebody else comments about italy rolling around the floor: it's not like they are the only ones with bringing bad behaviour to the pitch: other countries have equally bad national traits: the classic from club squads of the british islands i present you:
"Throwing around elbows (while jumping for headers)"
for the next round of UEFA cup/CL i recommend watching for such scenes:

-Header involving english player and player from non-england,
-non english referee blows whistle because of english elbowing,
-english player: confused since he thinks he did no wrong(and starts to complain about the referee) because in the EPL a ridiculous amount of elbowing is tolerated

happens less with the big english squads (foreign players *cough*) but it's still is a hysterical drinking game ;)

EDIT: I am glad to see that Müller won the Golden boot and Forlan won the Golden Ball - it's a way to recognize that Germany and Uruguay played big roles in the most exciting matches of the tournament. Forlan carried his team on his back, and Müller was one of several impressive young German players that surprised many of us in the course of the tournament.

the germans sure are going to be yet again the squad to watch 2/4 years from now .. even more so if you think about the young great talents Löw left back in germany (Großkreutz, Hummels, Ekici, Contento etc.)

Forlan definetly deserved the award.. he was pretty much not only carrying the team with his goals, he also kicked all free kicks, corners and was a psychological anchor for the squad: his motivational talking to his fellow players before the penalties against Ghana was a stand out point for me .. when i saw that i simply knew that uruguay was going to win the penalties
also together with the van Bronckhorst and Friedrich one of the great goals of the tournament with his volley in the last game

with Müller i just hope that he can stay injury free for the next few tournaments.. he can be playing for a further 3 world cups/ 3 Euros easily and with him being the youngest Golden boot winner of all time and the second youngest striker of all time to score more than 5 times he sure has set himself up for a run into the history books

for Klose though it was dissapointing to be hit with an injury just at this moment ... though i wouldn't be surprised if 2014 we see him again at the world cup ... as a late game subsitution striker for that last minute header ;)
 
I’m sorry but you can not jump for a header with out raising your arms. It’s physically impossible
 
actually i kind of agree with FIFA there... instant replays, challenges, time stoppages etc.i honestly don't think they have a place in football. just imagine if a coach had the ability for a challenge like in american football:

a. time isn't stopped: then it will be used for ridicilous time milking in the end of close games... substitutions are already bad enough used for that

b. time is stopped: imagine a game with turned momentum where for a few minutes a team just has a run or one team is struggeling hard .. in such a game situation how convinient it would be for a coach to use it to throw a wrench into the gears of an attacking team and give the own squad an easy minute to reorganize

considering the hate already for players "playing the clock" or doing dirty tricks ? unthinkable


takao, you raise some very good points.
but i think technology can be implemented without disrupting the flow of the game.
let the coach challenge one call each half, and put a time limit (30 seconds) for the review. if in that time the ref (or an additional video ref) is not convinced that the call was wrong, the call stand.
also, if the video ref had a DVR, he can re-check any play he thinks is doubtful and radio-communicate his impressions to the ref on the field, so the ref can eventually change his decision or take one when none was taken. it is not different form the linesmen, really, just more up to the times.

and tech to judge goal/no-goal situations and even offsides should be a no-brainer
 
I’m sorry but you can not jump for a header with out raising your arms. It’s physically impossible

but you can do so with keeping your arms under control
and the english elbowing isn't limited to the 'air' ... that's why put it into ()

honestly watch out for such "confused english player after foul has been given" scenes, after they used their elbows/arms too much

across the continent it's the english/british teams who (still) have the reputation for unnecessary roughness .....
in german football jargon it's called "Englische Härte" if one side plays rough despite being able to play without foul/dangerous tackles ... you know jumping into tackles ignoring possible career ending injuries etc. ... like the dutch did in the final...
that is the reputation the english football has compared to the italians theathrics ;)

edit: and you have the EPL with it's leg breaking scenes to look at
 
that is the reputation the english football has compared to the italians theathrics ;)

edit: and you have the EPL with it's leg breaking scenes to look at

I don't want to sound stereotypical, but I think the Italians can be every bit as rough physically as the English - I cannot forget De Rossi's dirty elbow to Brian McBride's face when we drew 1-1 with Italy in the '06 World Cup (our high point in that tournament). I think the Italians can be as violent as the English but are sneakier about it.

However I do agree that the English tolerate (expect?) a rougher physical style of play than most other nations. MLS is a pretty physical league because the level of technical ability is lower than top leagues, so athleticism counts for more - leading to more physical battles. Perhaps this affects the English as well?
 
More England news, it seems after Nationwide decided not to renew thier sponsorship we've got 3 new sponsors
capellosponsors.jpg
 
So, what's our final verdict on the ball?

Throughout the cup players seemed to have all sorts of trouble keeping the ball down, especially on free kicks. Time and time again shots were blazed over the bar and freekicks sent skywards. It was a pretty bad tournament for goalkeepers too; when a player DID succeed in keeping a shot on-target, keepers struggled mightily to make the save. Long-distance shots were particularly dangerous.

I think the Jabulani was too lively, and it hurt the quality of play. Given enough time, players will get used to it, but it seems like players were struggling with it at the WC.

It's been in use in MLS now since March, and hasn't caused any overhit shots to down low-flying aircraft, but I'm curious to see what the Germans think when the ball makes its way to the Bundesliga in this upcoming season.
 
Sorry was away for a bit so will give a quite summary of my thoughts of the last 7 days (like you care)

Ball: can't win either way, somebody will always moan about it be it goalies or strikers. Bring back the Mitre Mouldmaster size 5 smacked on the thigh on a cold Sunday morning:eek:.
Spain: deserved to win, but I take no satisfaction from picking them pre-tournament since I kind of switched allegiance to the Germans half way.
Netherlands: the red card was the only one that wasn't a red card
Final: typical final
The Ref: was pleased to see that most people in here came out in favour of the ref, the game was pretty unrefereeeable (!?!) Up here (if I were back home) it was compared to an Old Firm only the players here are honest scoundrels (they'll do a dirty tackle but when the ref books them it's a fair cop.)

Re: Kiwis, must be their Scottish ancestry! Scotland have acheived that feat before ('78 I think.)
 
Quick trivia question for you: Which was the only country to be unbeaten at the 2010 World Cup?

Even better trivia question - Q. Which was the only team never to have been defeated in a WC campaign, yet never even made it to the finals?

A. Australia - 1998.

Drew 2-2 at home after drawing 1-1 in Tehran, so Iran went to France instead on the away goals rule (Australia threw away a 2-0 lead in the last 10 minutes!). Venables was the Australian manager during that campaign, so I think he holds the WC managers record as well of never having lost a game either.

Venables for the England job. ;)

PS. Australia also holds the record for the highest score ever in a WC match, 31-0 against American Samoa in the 2002 qualifiers. One goal every three minutes. FIFA were forced to modify the qualifying route after that fiasco, put Australia into the Asian Confederation instead, so that record will stay for a while now. Qualified comfortaby for 2006 and 2010 instead of playing minnows and then having to face a sudden death match against a top team which always ended in failure. Much better to play consistenty good teams I reckon.

Bring back the Mitre Mouldmaster size 5 smacked on the thigh on a cold Sunday morning:eek:.

Or one of these, soaked with rain and mud and smacked in the head -> tweety birds. The Jabulani beach ball is a holiday in the park for goalkeepers I say! ;)

old-soccer-ball1.jpg
 
FIFA were forced to modify the qualifying route after that fiasco, put Australia into the Asian Confederation instead, so that record will stay for a while now.

wait.. what ? .. the australian FA in reality actually wanted to leave .. the FIFA didn't force them
they simply weren't happy with the fact that the FIFA wouldn't give a garanteed slot to Oceania (which would have been a farce)

now in asia, if they win they have that slot and don't have to go into play-offs


actually i'm all for merging oceania into the asia confederation because in it's current state the oceania confederation is pointless with new zealand pretty much going to win it all the time and then they have to play a play off game against an asian team... and that strong asian team was bahrain :rolleyes:

i think my country should consider joining OFC ;) .. that way we could avoid having to play against teams like France, Germany and England for once
 
wait.. what ? .. the australian FA in reality actually wanted to leave .. the FIFA didn't force them
they simply weren't happy with the fact that the FIFA wouldn't give a garanteed slot to Oceania (which would have been a farce)

No, I was saying Australia forced FIFA into doing it. Australia could have stopped at 10-0 but kept going at a goal every 170 seconds until the final whistle to force FIFA to finally listen to them and let them play in Asia. And it was the Australian B team too, not even ou first choice players.

Yes, Australia wanted in on the Asian federation because it was easier to qualify, but not because of the guaranteed spots, rather that they could build their form over time to be more competitive. Which meant mainly to get our best players into the team from the Euro leagues - none of them ever bothered to turn up for the Fiji games which required flying halfway around the world in the middle of the Euro season (they always feigned injuries) so it was impossible to ever build a solid team and fine tune it over time like we can now.

Anyway, qualifying from Oceania isn't guaranteed at all. It's more often quite the opposite. The Oceania winner has to play a sudden death tie with an alternating South American or Asian team, which is actually very difficult going from a run of relatively easy games into a suddenly serious knock-out one without any build-up to get some form in. in 1994, it was Argentina!! I was actually at that game and we almost did it too, but Maradona made all the difference...

So Australia have only ever managed it twice, and now NZ only twice too. NZ did it this year because Bahrain was expected to win but fluffed it. Had it been the 5th place South American team, they would have had to face Paraguay (I think) instead and likely been where Costa Rica ended up - staying home. I believe in 2014, NZ *will* have to play the 5th placed South American so it's far from assured they'll qualify at all.
 
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