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The 2013-2014 MLB Hot stove Thread

I knew Peralta was getting a raise, but seeing his AAV go from $5.5M to $13M was pretty surprising. I wouldn't have guessed over $8-10M.

Personally, I have mixed feelings on the matter. They've paid their price under the current system and are allowed these opportunities to come back, perform, and in turn make more money. On the other hand, I couldn't really fault anyone for not wanting anyone found guilty of using PEDs to be on their team.
 
malman89 said:
I knew Peralta was getting a raise, but seeing his AAV go from $5.5M to $13M was pretty surprising. I wouldn't have guessed over $8-10M.

Personally, I have mixed feelings on the matter. They've paid their price under the current system and are allowed these opportunities to come back, perform, and in turn make more money. On the other hand, I couldn't really fault anyone for not wanting anyone found guilty of using PEDs to be on their team.
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Don't have an issue with a one time cheater getting another chance to play(clean). I have an issue with a cheater getting a pay day. It just shows that cheating is still paying off. If I did my math correctly, Peralta lost $1.6 million from his suspension. He got a $7.5 million raise...... You would risk that $1.6 million loss to get that raise.....
 
quagmire said:
Don't have an issue with a one time cheater getting another chance to play(clean). I have an issue with a cheater getting a pay day. It just shows that cheating is still paying off. If I did my math correctly, Peralta lost $1.6 million from his suspension. He got a $7.5 million raise...... You would risk that $1.6 million loss to get that raise.....
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It's a function of the market rather than the cheater. This market for Short Stops is weak. The Cardinals really really really (one more for emphasis) REALLY need a shortstop upgrade, and so did other teams. The Cards didn't want to give up the farm for a trade, and wanted to avoid losing a first round draft pick in what is shaping up to be one of the strongest draft classes for a few years. On the FA market that narrows it very quickly to one guy, the guy at the top of the SS market.

Had this been next years crop of FA, where the SS market would have been a bit better, I think Jhonny "I Cant Spell my first name right" Peralta would have gone for about 10 per year.

Just out of curiosity..... how do you feel about Braun? He's at the very beginning of a high $$$ value contract. He was suspended for the remainder of last year, for additional evidence from PED usage from his MVP season.... a season that earned him his payday. He gets to comeback to MLB in 2014, contract in tact and get that guaranteed 100+ million.

I don't see this Peralta situation any different, and I don't see why Peralta is the focus of the outrage. The fact is that MLB and MLBPA agreement allows these guys to come back twice from PED usage before a lifetime ban.

If people want to put that rage and disappointment to good use target the rules that allows guys to bounce right back into MLB without any real consequences.
 
SporkLover said:
It's a function of the market rather than the cheater. This market for Short Stops is weak. The Cardinals really really really (one more for emphasis) REALLY need a shortstop upgrade, and so did other teams. The Cards didn't want to give up the farm for a trade, and wanted to avoid losing a first round draft pick in what is shaping up to be one of the strongest draft classes for a few years. On the FA market that narrows it very quickly to one guy, the guy at the top of the SS market.

Had this been next years crop of FA, where the SS market would have been a bit better, I think Jhonny "I Cant Spell my first name right" Peralta would have gone for about 10 per year.

Just out of curiosity..... how do you feel about Braun? He's at the very beginning of a high $$$ value contract. He was suspended for the remainder of last year, for additional evidence from PED usage from his MVP season.... a season that earned him his payday. He gets to comeback to MLB in 2014, contract in tact and get that guaranteed 100+ million.

I don't see this Peralta situation any different, and I don't see why Peralta is the focus of the outrage. The fact is that MLB and MLBPA agreement allows these guys to come back twice from PED usage before a lifetime ban.

If people want to put that rage and disappointment to good use target the rules that allows guys to bounce right back into MLB without any real consequences.
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This is why Selig is a hypocrite to go so hard after A-Rod and want a lifetime ban for not even failing a test, while Braun and Peralta get to cash in big for failing a test.
 
SporkLover said:
It's a function of the market rather than the cheater. This market for Short Stops is weak. The Cardinals really really really (one more for emphasis) REALLY need a shortstop upgrade, and so did other teams. The Cards didn't want to give up the farm for a trade, and wanted to avoid losing a first round draft pick in what is shaping up to be one of the strongest draft classes for a few years. On the FA market that narrows it very quickly to one guy, the guy at the top of the SS market.

Had this been next years crop of FA, where the SS market would have been a bit better, I think Jhonny "I Cant Spell my first name right" Peralta would have gone for about 10 per year.

Just out of curiosity..... how do you feel about Braun? He's at the very beginning of a high $$$ value contract. He was suspended for the remainder of last year, for additional evidence from PED usage from his MVP season.... a season that earned him his payday. He gets to comeback to MLB in 2014, contract in tact and get that guaranteed 100+ million.

I don't see this Peralta situation any different, and I don't see why Peralta is the focus of the outrage. The fact is that MLB and MLBPA agreement allows these guys to come back twice from PED usage before a lifetime ban.

If people want to put that rage and disappointment to good use target the rules that allows guys to bounce right back into MLB without any real consequences.
Click to expand...

I hate that any caught cheater gets a pay day in a contract year. It would be one thing if he was caught a few years back, but proved PED's didn't impact his performance all that much to be still worth a pay day. The fact he cheated will still linger in my mind when negotiating a new deal( and I would want language in the contract that gives me the right to void said contract if caught again), but would still give him a raise if his clean performance was still worth one.

Teams should be allowed to void contracts if the player was caught cheating or has evidence of cheating( even from years before said contract was signed). Only way to clean up the game. Have to take the incentive away from using PED's.
 
quagmire said:
I hate that any caught cheater gets a pay day in a contract year. It would be one thing if he was caught a few years back, but proved PED's didn't impact his performance all that much to be still worth a pay day. The fact he cheated will still linger in my mind when negotiating a new deal( and I would want language in the contract that gives me the right to void said contract if caught again), but would still give him a raise if his clean performance was still worth one.

Teams should be allowed to void contracts if the player was caught cheating or has evidence of cheating( even from years before said contract was signed). Only way to clean up the game. Have to take the incentive away from using PED's.
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Look at Peralta. First I think it's important to delineate the fact he wasn't popped on a test, he was linked to Biogenesis through the same documents that linked Braun, A-Rod, Bartolo Colon, etc etc etc.

He was supposedly on HGH in early 2012 (presumably to help him work out harder to get into fighting shape for the 2012 season). He had an awful year that year. Biogenesis went under before the end of season and that was the end of that anti-aging clinic. 2013 he was not linked to PEDs and he had one of his career years. No positive tests, no records. What in that situation?

I think there are too many holes in what you are suggesting. If you add too many if/then/buts it gets a but complicated. I also don't think contract year or not should matter. Why should that year matter over any other year? What if they were already making $20mil a year.... can they or should they go back to that after suspensions?

If baseball truly has a problem with it, there is only one solution. And that is a Pete Rose style ban for life. Until baseball goes that route, there will always be redemption and big paydays for Brauns, Cabreras, and Peraltas.
 
SporkLover said:
Look at Peralta. First I think it's important to delineate the fact he wasn't popped on a test, he was linked to Biogenesis through the same documents that linked Braun, A-Rod, Bartolo Colon, etc etc etc.

He was supposedly on HGH in early 2012 (presumably to help him work out harder to get into fighting shape for the 2012 season). He had an awful year that year. Biogenesis went under before the end of season and that was the end of that anti-aging clinic. 2013 he was not linked to PEDs and he had one of his career years. No positive tests, no records. What in that situation?

I think there are too many holes in what you are suggesting. If you add too many if/then/buts it gets a but complicated. I also don't think contract year or not should matter. Why should that year matter over any other year? What if they were already making $20mil a year.... can they or should they go back to that after suspensions?

If baseball truly has a problem with it, there is only one solution. And that is a Pete Rose style ban for life. Until baseball goes that route, there will always be redemption and big paydays for Brauns, Cabreras, and Peraltas.
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Contract year matters because they could cheat in a contract year and once they are on their lucrative contract, stop cheating.

Have to hurt the players pockets. Voiding a contract if caught cheating or evidence of cheating like the Biogenesis scandal will hurt their incentive to cheat. And proof of cheating in a contract year will also prevent players from cheating to get that pay day.
 
quagmire said:
Contract year matters because they could cheat in a contract year and once they are on their lucrative contract, stop cheating.

Have to hurt the players pockets. Voiding a contract if caught cheating or evidence of cheating like the Biogenesis scandal will hurt their incentive to cheat. And proof of cheating in a contract year will also prevent players from cheating to get that pay day.
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Ok let's go back to Peralta. He was linked to PED usage in spring of 2012. Since he wasn't caught cheating his contract year it's ok?

Contract years are what's frustrating people now, but I submit that it doesn't matter. You either are tolerant of cheating and accept current punishment or you're not. What year it takes place doesn't matter.

I have a few suggestions if the lifetime ban for PED usage is too far reaching.

If you have a problem with the pay days then The players aren't the problem...it's the teams who lose nothing by signing previously convicted/suspected guys, and when players get suspended they even free up payroll.... Allowing them to void contracts evaporates even more of that risk. If you want the teams to take on risk, you can force them to forfeit any players salaries during time of suspension, and even remaining value of contract if they are banned for life. Penalize teams that lose players to PED suspensions by making them give up draft picks, limit their signing bonus pool, etc etc. by shifting some risk to teams you force them to look at whom they deal with and perhaps even become part of the PED enforcement process.

In the end, I think these things are too complicated, just make it a lifetime ban and be done with it.
 
Yikes. Way overpayment. So glad the Sox learned from the Crawford mistake and didn't do anything stupid like that.

Good for him I guess, cash in while he still can.

The Yankees will never learn though. How many bloated contracts are they going to give to guys who will be declining in the last few years of these deals?
 
I'll miss Jacoby, great player, even nicer guy, glad he got his paydirt - but that contract is a bit absurd. It can be worth as much as $163 over 8 years, or the 9th richest contract in baseball history. And yes, I too am glad the Red Sox learned from the Crawford fiasco. We have JBJ waiting in the wings who will hopefully be a similar type player, as well as Xander Bogaerts waiting to fill in some of that offense. Similar to when we let Damon walk and had Jacoby waiting to take over.

I've learned not to try and make sense of the Yankees moves, but as a Red Sox fan, this move does nothing to scare me. He's a better Gardner at high dollars and long years. They've done nothing to address their pitching, they still need to sign Cano, and they've spent $240+ million on two players on the wrong side of 30 so far.

I'd have been screaming for Doug Fister, especially at the low price the Tigers sold him for. Even the Yankees farm could have probably afforded him. Glad they were focused on Ellsbury.

I will worry when the Yankees realize their best years came from developing a strong farm and using their resources to *compliment* it, not going on free agent binges every year. Until then...;)
 
Not surprised the Yankees are spending money, shocked that they signed Ellsbury. Once the Sox won it all the Yankees were going to blow the cap wide open. Is there room left for Cano. The Mariners are said to be big players now. Plus we still need pitching.
 
Mariners rumored to have offered Cano 9/$225 million, Yankees growing pessimistic, Cano pissed at Ellsbury contract compared to what the Yankees offered him, Cano in Seattle right now, and Cano's father says he wants a 10 year deal.

Quick recap in the Cano story.
 
I say good riddance. He would be stupid to sign in Seattle. What endorsement deals will he get there that he could not get in NY. This would be a huge mistake by him and the Mariners to give him 10 years. As great a player as he is he is not worth anywhere near what he is asking. I say let him walk at this point.
 
MacNut said:
I say good riddance. He would be stupid to sign in Seattle. What endorsement deals will he get there that he could not get in NY. This would be a huge mistake by him and the Mariners to give him 10 years. As great a player as he is he is not worth anywhere near what he is asking. I say let him walk at this point.
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Agreed. The Yankees offer of 7/$160-$175 million is very fair. Especially looking at what Pedroia got( the 2nd best 2B in baseball) from Boston.
 
quagmire said:
Yankees sign Jacoby Ellsbury for 7 years/$153 million with an option for an 8th year.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/yankees-agree-to-sign-jacoby-ellsbury.html

I don't like it one bit. Gardner is a more affordable version of Ellsbury, Shoo probably would have been cheaper, and the Yankees are afraid of signing Cano to more than a 7 year contract when he is more durable than Ellsbury?
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I know Jacoby has spent time on the DL, but hasn't that been due to HBP or other issues that aren't mechanical in nature (I.e broken bones)?
 
SporkLover said:
I know Jacoby has spent time on the DL, but hasn't that been due to HBP or other issues that aren't mechanical in nature (I.e broken bones)?
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Yeah believe so. Still Cano has had the same thing happen( most notably Harvey nailing Cano in the ASG this year) and he has been fine(relatively).

Anyway, talks with the Mariners fell apart.
 
Can you imagine the bitching Cano will do in 2 years when the team is still in the basement and he is freezing his ass off in June.
 
MacNut said:
Can you imagine the bitching Cano will do in 2 years when the team is still in the basement and he is freezing his ass off in June.
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And he is only hitting like 15-20 HR's instead of in the 30 range? Unless the contract includes a clause where the Mariners will mimic Yankee Stadiums dimensions......
 
Hahaha. Baseball is so ridiculous. This is just further proof this league is broken and will continue to be until they implement a salary cap.
 
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