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The 2015-2016 Football Thread
- Thread starter Lord Blackadder
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Let us agree to differ on the - relative - meaning of failure. Your definition strikes me as a somewhat binary interpretation. You see Arsenal - and Mr Wenger - as a failure. I don't.
I'll grant that a greater degree of success might have been possible, but less success than there might have been does not equate to failure. It simply means that there has been less success than there might have been.
Yes, after that draw (and Leicester's emphatic win on Sunday), I cannot really see Spurs overhauling Leicester now.
Well the fans are turning on Wenger with good cause.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/arsenal-fan-groups-planning-protests-norwich-city
27 years too late but at least the families can grieve for their loved ones knowing they are no longer being blamed. I think it's an important milestone for English football not just Liverpool fans as it could have been any club caught up in this.
The Sun newspaper have ignored the story so far and Boris Johnson may never retract the awful comments he made in 2004 despite the verdict.
I think it's time to move on and I hope the likes of Duckenfield are put before a jury for one of the biggest examples of police corruption of our time.
i hope not but i expect that to be about right, actually i expect spurs to lose... meh!
I have nothing against Spurs and they deserve to be where they are, but the opportunity of a Leicester-type team winning the title probably won't happen again in our lifetimes, so I want to see that pan out.
There is just too much financial doping and entrenchment at the top. Big teams act like they deserve to be where they are, but its all because they gamed the system when money truly saturated the game in the 90s-2000s got big (or caught up quickly with massive infusions of cash). they've got the rest of the footballing world by the cojones. At least for once we many have the satisfaction of watching a (somewhat) smaller team give that cabal a kick in the swingers.
There is just too much financial doping and entrenchment at the top. Big teams act like they deserve to be where they are, but its all because they gamed the system when money truly saturated the game in the 90s-2000s got big (or caught up quickly with massive infusions of cash). they've got the rest of the footballing world by the cojones. At least for once we many have the satisfaction of watching a (somewhat) smaller team give that cabal a kick in the swingers.
Weren't the Liverpool supporters themselves exonerated of blame by the Interim Taylor Report, four months after the event?
The report was released in 2 versions and it did lay the blame largely at the hands of the police. However the report was poorly written and credited public bodies with false praise. Unfortunately for the victims the report was heavily criticised and much of the perception surrounding the disaster was still pointed towards the fans. The media, leading politicians including Boris Johnson and David Cameron have made misleading statements about the events that day and falsely diverted attention away from those who were truly to blame.
Hence why it has taken 27 years for the inquiry to officially declare the 96 were 'unlawfully killed'. It's a massive relief to the families, my brother who lost one of his best mates, and English football in general.
Yes, I've read that Sheffield Wednesday, the FA, the ambulance service etc came out of it significantly better than they should have.
Looking back at my late teens and early twenties there was a steady stream of 'shît happens' disasters, leading to lists of recommendations such as 'remember to close the doors before you leave the port'. The list below excludes the deliberate crimes of Lockerbie and Hungerford, and the continual drizzle of motorway pile-ups and minor train crashes...
11 May 1985: Bradford City fire (56 dead)
29 May 1985: Heysel (39 dead)
22 August 1985: Manchester air disaster (55 dead)
6 November 1986: Brent oilfield Chinook crash (45 dead)
6 March 1987: Herald of Free Enterprise ro-ro-ro (193 dead)
18 November 1987: King's Cross Fire (31 dead)
8 August 1988: Piper Alpha Fire (167 dead)
12 December 1988: Clapham Junction rail crash (35 dead)
8 January 1989: Kegworth air disaster (44 dead)
15 April 1989: Hillsborough (96 dead)
20 August 1989: Marchioness sinking (51 dead)
At the time the Hillsborough disaster appeared to be just another 'shît happens disaster'. Safety Certificate out of date? Ah well, I'm sure it'll be fine. It's testament to the determination of the victims' families that it's no longer seen that way, but in reality the changes to the game which ensured that such an event cannot happen again were made by the recommendations of the final Taylor Report and the unrelated imminent appearance of Sky. The actions of both supporters and police on the pitch on the day were very much a reflection of the age (Thatcher's Britain, 3m unemployed, miner's strike, us vs them, scallies, hooliganism, retention of fencing despite experience of Bradford, yada yada yada) and cannot be fairly judged using today's mores. You only have to see the super soaraway Sun's headline to know that it's another, quite alien time.
The only British precedent for Hillsborough was Burden Park in 1946: 33 fatalities as a result of grotesque overcrowding. What happened at Hillsborough was almost beyond imagination, but sadly I think it's something that had to happen before the causes could be addressed. Better policing at the ground, on the day would have reduced the number of fatalities, but the infrastructure problems of Hillsborough, combined with the mutual mistrust between football fans and police, really were a disaster waiting to happen. It's the South Yorkshire Police's cover-up that's the real crime, more so that anything that happened on that day (up to the point when the SYP starting briefing newspapers of urination on injured police officers and theft from corpses, of course).
"Brilliant, truly brilliant from Saul Niguez. The midfielder jinked his way through the Bayern defence, breezing past three or four perplexed Bayern defenders before topping it off with a cute finish into the far corner."
Sounds better than Citeh/RM already.
Here's my question: Shouldn't fans be held accountable, just a little? They just poured themselves in. Granted, nothing went right with Hillsbrough security and what not, but still...
Question 7: behaviour of the supporters
Was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury’s answer: No
If your answer to the question above is “no”, then was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury’s answer: No
Personally I was surprised by the above, although I can see why it was 'politic' to return such a verdict. What happened was the culmination of a twenty plus year downward spiral of 'act like scum > be treated like scum'. But, to my mind, everything was within the regular parameters of a big match at that time. Absolutely no-one knew what was about to happen, because the same things had happened hundreds of times before right up to the point at which people started dying. Which is why I'm uncomfortable with the apportioning blame for actions/inactions that led up to the tragedy.
Grrrrrrrr. My team lost. =/ But Atletico was the far better team in the first half. Bayern played atrociously bad for the first half hour, totally overwhelmed and out of ideas. The second half was Bayern's half, but they made nothing of it. A well deserved win for Atletico. I don't see us turning this around on Tuesday.
No they shouldn't.
The crowd control outside the ground was so abysmal, the gates were simply opened and fans ushered in by the police. The fans had no way of knowing it was causing a crush and that only access to the central pens was available.
The fans were not to blame, not even a little bit.
what would you expect them to do walk calmly hmming like on a country walk?
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every decision the police made on that day was the wrong one, they would have saved lives if they had flipped a coin, the useless corrupt f*ck pigs.
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and there had been plenty of near misses before, just like liverpool fans get called to **** over Hysel, yet the same thing happened dozens of times throughout europe during the 80s, the only difference was a wall fell down because the stadium was a crumbling mess.
The police made stupid decision after decision apart from run to watch a game that the police had let start through a gate the police had opened what wrong did the fans do?
They did nothing no other group of human beings would have done in that situation be it a Rock Concert or Black Friday etc.
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The way I read it is thus: the fans are not to blame because they did exactly what any typical "crowd" of people could reasonably be expected to do under the circumstances. They were unknowingly led into a crush, and once the police initiated the dangerous flow of people to the pens it became impossible to stop it before tragedy occurred.
Atleti aren't always fun to watch, but their gritty toughness is impressive. They are just so hard to beat, and they ruthlessly punish mistakes. With that being said, this style of play is only acceptable for underdogs - otherwise you are just another Chelsea.
Bayern are on a tightrope - one away goal from Atleti in Germany and things get very uncomfortable.
Ahh you mean me? Well those stats still stand and I can real off loads more for you where Spurs are top but its probably not worth it as people suggest they don't mean jack. What they do 100% mean is that the progress Tottenham have made which is something I personally believe they will be able to retain.
I hope you're not including Spurs in this rant? We actually have a lower net spend than Leicester and most others. Also with our strict wage structure its amazing that we are competing at at all
Ahh you mean me? Well those stats still stand and I can real off loads more for you where Spurs are top but its probably not worth it as people suggest they don't mean jack. What they do 100% mean is that the progress Tottenham have made which is something I personally believe they will be able to retain.
I hope you're not including Spurs in this rant? We actually have a lower net spend than Leicester and most others. Also with our strict wage structure its amazing that we are competing at at all
only if you can retain your players.
your strict wage structure is 120 million pounds a year compared to 48 million of Leicester, and you did your pissing away of money during the Bale days, you couldnt keep that up, stop distorting the truth what leicester have done is amazing what you have done not so much.