My Arsenal friends want a win for sure and many of them express a desire for the 'old man' to leave with dignity.
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The 2017-2018 Football Thread
- Thread starter Lord Blackadder
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Dignity, yes. Agreed.
Something some of the more entitled (and graceless) and loudly moaning fans have forgotten the meaning of.
At the end of the day, Mr Wenger has come to define Arsenal - much as Alex Ferguson had come to define Manchester United (or Bill Shankly defined a Liverpool of an earlier age, even more than Kenny Dalgliesh ever did); stepping into those shoes adequately will present an enormous - and I would say, almost impossible - challenge.
Few managers - not even Jose Mourinho, whether at Chelsea or Manchester United - come to be able to define what a club "is"; rather, most are care-takers, coaches and leaders for a short time - and the constant carousel of fired managers and disgruntled fans almost ensures that they never get to remain long enough to make a permanent mark.
However, at Arsenal, Wenger - and not just on account of his longevity - was the most influential (and the most successful) manager in the club's history; in Arsenal lore, only the extraordinary Herbert Chapman in the 1930s came anywhere close in terms of a legend that lingered.
Wenger isn't helping his cause though with his stubbornness and tone deaf remarks. Even the guy who appointed him thinks he has long overstayed his welcome. His obsession is harming the club he claims to love. At this point i don't see a graceful exit anymore. The board's hand is slowly being forced on several fronts (no CL money, empty seats, bleak dressing room) so at this point its only a matter of time which...should never have been the case.
Also fans are of course entitled...even if you don't agree. They pay their hard earned money to watch the the club they're passionate about. I think Arsenal fans are actually the most tolerant considering what they've suffered for 13 odd years, and consistently paying the highest ticket prices for minimal return.
Arsene Wenger is a Legend. Arsenal will definitely miss him. But he is no longer their future...instead he is keeping them in the past. In my humble opinion.
Also fans are of course entitled...even if you don't agree. They pay their hard earned money to watch the the club they're passionate about. I think Arsenal fans are actually the most tolerant considering what they've suffered for 13 odd years, and consistently paying the highest ticket prices for minimal return.
Arsene Wenger is a Legend. Arsenal will definitely miss him. But he is no longer their future...instead he is keeping them in the past. In my humble opinion.
All credit to Brighton. A well deserved win by all accounts, and Chris Hughton is an excellent manager and a decent and impressive human being.
While I agree that Mr Wenger isn't helping his cause with his stubbornness, the graceless and yes - entitled - behaviour of some Arsenal fans - is something I find distasteful.
And - to my mind - what they are entitled to are exceptionally well paid professional footballers actually competing and playing as though the outcome mattered to them, instead of going missing at key times in a match with brittle and spineless displays.
I think the problem with Wenger compared to Ferguson is that he hasn't been anywhere near as successful. Now part of that reason is he was playing against Ferguson and a very successful Manchester United side for many years. Fergie also managed to win the league so he could go out on top.
Whatever happens now it's going to look like he has been pushed out. It's a shame he won't be remembered for past success, but for staying too long.
But as an Arsenal fan @Scepticalscribe, who would you like to see as your next manager? Any past players you think could do the job?
Whatever happens now it's going to look like he has been pushed out. It's a shame he won't be remembered for past success, but for staying too long.
But as an Arsenal fan @Scepticalscribe, who would you like to see as your next manager? Any past players you think could do the job?
Shame on the (minority of) Arsenal fans who are currently treating Wenger in a very shabby manner. Yes, he has probably remained at the helm too long, but the club have gone along with that and, without Wenger, there are no Invincibles. Without Wenger, the is no Henry. Wenger developed a highly-promising Bergkamp into the legend he became.
Wenger has won the league, lots of FA Cups, and until recently provided a consistent level of success that only Man Utd exceeded.
It's completely fair for Arsenal fans to feel dissatisfied, dejected, jaded, and even a little annoyed at Wenger right now. It's hard to see him continuing beyond this season without some serious consequences. But he should be absolutely above the vitriol of the mob.
And, in case Arsenal fans haven't been paying attention, when a legend like Wenger departs, chaos ensues. The chances of the next manager charging back up into the top four, at least in the short term, are not particularly high. Stan Kroenke doesn't give a flying whatsit about winning football matches.
A couple of long-time Arsenal fans I know have given up for the moment and aren't even watching matches any more. They haven't stopped supporting the club but the product on the pitch and the ownership situation are both disheartening. Rather than getting drunk and abusing Wenger in the stadium, try staying at home and withholding your hard-earned cash from Kroenke because revenue is literally the only thing he cares about with respect to Arsenal.
EDIT: The first half of Man City v Chelsea is over, 0-0. Man City have had 78% possession in the half.
Wenger has won the league, lots of FA Cups, and until recently provided a consistent level of success that only Man Utd exceeded.
It's completely fair for Arsenal fans to feel dissatisfied, dejected, jaded, and even a little annoyed at Wenger right now. It's hard to see him continuing beyond this season without some serious consequences. But he should be absolutely above the vitriol of the mob.
And, in case Arsenal fans haven't been paying attention, when a legend like Wenger departs, chaos ensues. The chances of the next manager charging back up into the top four, at least in the short term, are not particularly high. Stan Kroenke doesn't give a flying whatsit about winning football matches.
A couple of long-time Arsenal fans I know have given up for the moment and aren't even watching matches any more. They haven't stopped supporting the club but the product on the pitch and the ownership situation are both disheartening. Rather than getting drunk and abusing Wenger in the stadium, try staying at home and withholding your hard-earned cash from Kroenke because revenue is literally the only thing he cares about with respect to Arsenal.
EDIT: The first half of Man City v Chelsea is over, 0-0. Man City have had 78% possession in the half.
Excellent post and one which pretty much echoes my own thoughts on the matter.
Wenger not only won the Premier League and several FA Cups (including one as recently as last year) he also won the Double. Twice.
Yes, it is sad to witness the decline of a legend - and a legend who - it is increasingly becoming clear - is no longer at the apex of his powers - but it is deeply depressing and very dispiriting to see the entitled venom and vitriol (some of which was also on display last year) on the part of some Arsenal fans.
Show some dignity and class, as Wenger himself (for the most part) does; and, as for the players, it would be quite nice if they could summon or show some pride.
As for who will succeed Wenger? I don't know and have given it no thought whatsoever; I have not boarded the "Wenger Out" express, and will be sorry to see the man go, even if I can (reluctantly) concede that his day has passed.
In any case, I imagine a rather rocky road for a few years, actually. It is rare to have someone such as Kenny Dalgliesh be in a position to succeed a legend such as Bill Shankly - that sort of seamless and successful succession is the exception, not the rule.
So sad.
I was immediately reminded of Dani Jarque, who died under similar circumstances. In a sad symmetry, Jarque passed away in his hotel room in Florence.
Strange how I bemoaned United's lack of comeback grit, and now they've come back to win two league matches in a row. That's good to see, certainly, but those comebacks were required by some incredibly awful patches of football: United looked like zombies until Willian scored against them, and they were again in the twilight zone at Selhurt Park, not waking up until Mourinho made some astute substitutions to invigorate the attack.
United simply can't afford to be asleep at the switch like that against Liverpool; they'll find themselves down 5-0 before they realize what happened.
As for Wenger's successor at Arsenal: I think Leonardo Jardim of Monaco potentially fits the bill perfectly. Develops young players and plays good, attacking football.
The Astori news is indeed terrible. 31 years old is far too young. When reading the story I learned that Fiorentina had only just run a whole slew of medical tests on the players (including Astori) to prevent just this sort of thing from happening. Still no word on the cause. A real tragedy.
If Liverpool beat Man Utd in their upcoming meeting, I believe the win will be founded on a characteristic barrage of early goals, followed by a tense second half as Liverpool try to hold on to their lead. Liverpool have occasionally scored important late goals, but they really depend on a strong first half to build up a 2 or 3 goal lead, so that when they inevitably concede they still have enough of a margin to win the match.
Mourinho is still struggling to get Sanchez and Pogba playing well together; they tend to wander about and get in each others' way.
Liverpool are set to leapfrog Man Utd if they win, but a draw maintains the status quo. So I assume Mou will play for a draw again. The fans will complain, but if Mou finishes second in the league he will argue that his bus-parking approach is fully vindicated by results, and, from a strictly results-focused perspective, he not entirely wrong. Apart from the giant Man City-shaped elephant in the room, of course - and the fact that I haven't yet met a Man Utd fan who would describe Mourinho's approach as "the Man Utd Way", so there are still real doubts about his long-term viability even if he is keeping the team competitive.
If Liverpool beat Man Utd in their upcoming meeting, I believe the win will be founded on a characteristic barrage of early goals, followed by a tense second half as Liverpool try to hold on to their lead. Liverpool have occasionally scored important late goals, but they really depend on a strong first half to build up a 2 or 3 goal lead, so that when they inevitably concede they still have enough of a margin to win the match.
Mourinho is still struggling to get Sanchez and Pogba playing well together; they tend to wander about and get in each others' way.
Liverpool are set to leapfrog Man Utd if they win, but a draw maintains the status quo. So I assume Mou will play for a draw again. The fans will complain, but if Mou finishes second in the league he will argue that his bus-parking approach is fully vindicated by results, and, from a strictly results-focused perspective, he not entirely wrong. Apart from the giant Man City-shaped elephant in the room, of course - and the fact that I haven't yet met a Man Utd fan who would describe Mourinho's approach as "the Man Utd Way", so there are still real doubts about his long-term viability even if he is keeping the team competitive.
It was pretty good for me to! Keeps Crystal Palace 3 points closer.
Whew, Liverpool-Porto was one of the dullest matches I've seen in a while. Despite Klopp's protestations about taking the match seriously, with the aggregate score sitting at 5-0 and a few key players rested, it was never going to be interesting unless Porto scored a lot of early goals. Which they didn't, so most of the match was a total snooze-fest. It's hard to blame the players - those who rarely get picked were not fully match fit and thus out of form, while the starters probably just wanted to avoid picking up an injury that would keep them out of the upcoming match against Man Utd. Liverpool were playing at 70% today.
Mane hit the post and Danny Ings came very close to scoring; after all his terrible luck with injury, I am really rooting for him to get a goal. Sadly, it wasn't to be, in a game that desperately needed a goal...Still, the result is great for Liverpool, and it was a clean sheet. On to the next round.
Oh, and credit to the Porto fans, who sang loudly the entire match. Easily the most exciting thing that happened at Anfield tonight.
PSG-Real wasn't a great match either, though at least goals were scored. But the result was almost as inevitable as at Anfield - though Marco Verratti's red card made it even easier.
Mane hit the post and Danny Ings came very close to scoring; after all his terrible luck with injury, I am really rooting for him to get a goal. Sadly, it wasn't to be, in a game that desperately needed a goal...Still, the result is great for Liverpool, and it was a clean sheet. On to the next round.
Oh, and credit to the Porto fans, who sang loudly the entire match. Easily the most exciting thing that happened at Anfield tonight.
PSG-Real wasn't a great match either, though at least goals were scored. But the result was almost as inevitable as at Anfield - though Marco Verratti's red card made it even easier.
Allegri/Juve orchestrate arguably the perfect away performance tonight against Spurs. Also Chiellini is one heck of a defender. He and Higuain sucker punched Spurs tonight.
Tragic for spurs but beautifully done by Juve...talk about game management.
Proof that experience and mettle matter more in this competition than flair.
Tragic for spurs but beautifully done by Juve...talk about game management.
Proof that experience and mettle matter more in this competition than flair.
That was one very Italian performance. Tough, organized, a little bit dirty and highly opportunistic. They ruthlessly punished Spurs.
I wouldn't necessarily say Juventus is a better team than Spurs, but they managed this knockout tie extremely well.
Shame for Spurs, indeed, but - with luck - they will learn from the experience.
They have a very good team, a very good attitude, and an excellent manager. In the future, they should be able to go further in the competition.
They have a very good team, a very good attitude, and an excellent manager. In the future, they should be able to go further in the competition.
Taking a harsher line: they should have been able to win that game. With their talent, at home, with two away goals in the bank...I was surprised they lost.
EDIT: though Chiellini's performance reminded us just how underrated a top center back is. Strikers get all the glory, but Juve won that match by shutting down Spurs' vaunted attack.
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Arsenal remember how to play football and consequently do a job on poor Milan at the San Siro.
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"Poor" is not the adjective I would use to describe Milan. Not literally, and not metaphorically.
But, yes, well done Arsenal.
Yeah, I know.
Heart-breakers, at times, aren't they?
These days, I never trust them when they take the field, and cannot relax until the final whistle has been blown. In between, anything can happen. Unfortunately. Anything on the spectrum between the sublime and something approaching inexpressible agony.
I'm fully expecting a big bus-parking tomorrow. If Mourinho wins a dull match he will consider his cowardly approach to the game vindicated, and it will be a major tragedy for football.
Obviously I want to see Liverpool win, but I really do hope it is an entertaining match.
Obviously I want to see Liverpool win, but I really do hope it is an entertaining match.
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