The 2017-2018 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

So, the debate rages: should Man City set out to win the Manchester Derby or keep their powder dry for the Liverpool match?

On the one hand, the result of the Man Utd match is totally irrelevant from a practical standpoint. Man City will win the league regardless, and Man Utd are not a threat in that sense. But the second leg of the Champions League tie against Liverpool is a do-or-die affair and the Champions League remains the club ownership's number 1 objective. Logic dictates that Pep make sure that his strongest possible team is available to face Liverpool.

On the other hand, winning the league by beating Man Utd carries huge emotional significance and - let's be honest - everyone wants to see Mourinho lose, apart from Man Utd fans and a few fanatical Chelsea fans. It might also give the team a confidence boost before the Liverpool match.

So, what to do? The answer: both. Man City have two world-class players in every position, they should be able to rotate the squad between the two matches and still get both jobs done. The worst-case scenario is a hard-fought loss to Man Utd, and a few key players limping off injured or exhausted before the Liverpool match.

Liverpool have a similar dilemma, but the answer is much easier - the Merseyside Derby is NOT as important as the Champions League. Klopp should rotate the squad, resting Mo Salah after that groin injury scare (and bring in Danny Ings), swap out at least one if not both of the wingbacks to bring in Clyne and Moreno and maybe putting Can in for 90 minutes in the midfield. That group should still be able to beat Big Sam's Everton.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Indeed, some truly embarrassing behavior from a group of fans there. I don't necessarily have a problem with fans giving the opposition bus a "warm welcome" with flares, chants and banners, though personally that is not my style. Threats, and especially physically attacking the bus are, however, beyond the pale. But in every crowd there are always an active minority of morons who just can't control themselves.

We all have our idiot fans.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

That was the dullest Merseyside derby I've seen in a long time. Ings and Solanke were unsurprisingly rusty, so a lack of goals is not totally surprising.

Everton could have won it near the end but to be honest that would have been outright theft - Big Sam's Everton didn't create much at all.

Karius continues to look decent, after a disastrous start to his Liverpool career. He's playing with confidence, distributing the ball reasonably well, and making some good stops. He may or may not be the long-term answer, but it's good to see him improve.

In the end, Klopp made the right move by putting out a B squad. This match, for all its history and emotional significance, was meaningless from a pragmatic standpoint. The City match is the focus.

 

[Alphazoid]

Pep's mistake has been to change what wasn't broken. He took the 'Pool game too seriously and United not seriously enough. Because of what happened at Anfield and consequently messed up the balance of his team.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Pep's mistake has been to change what wasn't broken. He took the 'Pool too seriously and United not seriously enough. Because of what happened at Anfield and consequently messed up the balance of his team.

His team also didn't take their chances; at one stage, they could have been 4-0 up, but missed some excellent opportunities which they failed to convert into goals.

Even Paul Pogba (who probably had his own points to prove and was on fire today) would have found it a bit of a challenge to have successfully overturned a 4-0 lead.

 

[JamesMike]

Just watched the highlights of the Man Derby, after the first half did not think my team would come back, but Pogba proved me wrong. Good win for my team.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Pep's mistake has been to change what wasn't broken. He took the 'Pool game too seriously and United not seriously enough. Because of what happened at Anfield and consequently messed up the balance of his team.

It's a moral victory for Man Utd, but Man City still take home the title - and, given that City won the reverse fixture, it's really kind of a draw in a sense.

Mourhino is always at his most dangerous when he has the chance to play the villain, underdog, or spoiler (c.f this game and his win over Liverpool in '13-'14). Because that is precisely who he is. I still say it was a risk worth taking. If Pep manages to knock Liverpool out after this, people will forget this match (a longshot, to be fair, but not impossible). And even if the gamble doesn't pay off, Man City still win the league, while the best Mou can hope for is the FA Cup.

It's a setback for Pep, to be sure, but really - from the perspective of a Man Utd fan, would you take one win each over Liverpool and Man City over a league title? Speaking as a Liverpool fan, I would be happy to lose to Man Utd twice a season if it meant taking home the league title year after year.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just watched thewith highlights of the Man Derby, after the first half did not think my team would come back, but Pogba proved me wrong. Good win for my team.

I thought you'd be pleased with the result! Pogba was the difference today.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

From Johnathan Wilson:

"Football has known few party poopers like Mourinho. He may not literally have broken up a party at one of his young player’s homes, wearing evening dress and calling them by their numbers rather than their names, as Sir Alex Ferguson famously did at a gathering at Lee Sharpe’s house, but he loves nothing more than stopping other people having fun."

Amen, brother.

Interesting to note the fragility of both Manchester teams during this match Liverpool have been raked over the coals many times for being "flawed" and terrible at the back but both Many City and Man Utd were guilty of some laughable defending in this match.

 

[Silencio]

City will have to postpone their league celebration at least two weeks, unless West Brom somehow beats United next week.

I figured City's untouchable run would have to end at some point, but losing emphatically to a domestic rival in the UCL followed by squandering a two goal lead against their archrivals at home with the league championship there for the taking? That's really something.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

City will have to postpone their league celebration at least two weeks, unless West Brom somehow beats United next week.

I figured City's untouchable run would have to end at some point, but losing emphatically to a domestic rival in the UCL followed by squandering a two goal lead against their archrivals at home with the league championship there for the taking? That's really something.

But again, they could have copper-fastened their lead and turned it into an emphatic victory in the first half; Raheem Sterling missed three excellent chances for City - that is prodigal in the extreme at this level and frankly, unforgivable. Missing such chances also tends to come back to haunt you, (and bite you) because the domination such opportunities suggest rarely lasts a full match.

Some posts have referred to fragile defences; but rather, here, I see one of the key issues as being City's prodigal wastefulness and carelessness in attack along with a failure to convert their chances.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Three points for Arsenal (against Southampton) but not without a struggle.

This is the time of year when beleaguered teams - with the stark incentive of the threat or relegation or the chance of survival to fight for - can become a lot more motivated than occasionally brittle teams idly languishing many places above them in the table.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Three points for Arsenal (against Southampton) but not without a struggle.

This is the time of year when beleaguered teams - with the stark incentive of the threat or relegation or the chance of survival to fight for - can become a lot more motivated than occasionally brittle teams idly languishing many places above them in the table.

Glad you got the victory. Sometimes I wonder if players up their game hoping to be sold on if their team gets relegated.
[doublepost=1523207142][/doublepost]And we have scored to draw level. Just blow the whistle now. I'll take the draw all day!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Glad you got the victory.

Thanks.

Hard work, though.

Mind you, I will never understand why Arsenal didn't fight hard to get Virgil van Dijk - he is a terrific player, and might be the difference between Southampton having been able to stay up, and tumbling through the trap-door of beckoning relegation.

Sometimes I wonder if players up their game hoping to be sold on if their team gets relegated.

Indeed, this is something that I have wondered, too.

And we have scored to draw level. Just blow the whistle now. I'll take the draw all day!

I'm not all that surprised, (that West Ham pulled one back) to be honest.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Thanks.

Hard work, though.

Mind you, I will never understand why Arsenal didn't fight hard to get Virgil van Dijk - he is a terrific player, and might be the difference between Southampton having been able to stay up, and tumbling through the trap-door of beckoning relegation.



Indeed, this is something that I have wondered, too.



I'm not all that surprised, (that West Ham pulled one back) to be honest.

A point is more than I thought we'd get today. Helps in our relegation battle. Plenty of teams look more precarious than us.
West Brom, Stoke and Southampton to go down for me. But you never know.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I know that Liverpool go into today's match with a big advantage. But Pep is backed into a corner, is playing at home, and has a world-class team of players at his disposal. I expect this to be an extremely tough match for both teams.

My gut instinct is a Liverpool loss or draw, but going through on aggregate, which I'd take in a minute. Klopp knows that if Liverpool get just one goal today, Man City need to score at least five to go through. I imagine his game-plan will be to catch Man City on the break as they try to level the tie, snag that crucial away goal, and then control the match as they did in the second half of the first leg. A tall order.

I am also still concerned for Salah's fitness. He certainly needed rest after the first leg, but was it enough? If Liverpool manages to progress to the next round, they will need Salah more than ever, so Liverpool can't afford to lose him.

EDIT: Back in the states after traveling abroad for a week - I was able to watch the Manchester derby in a pub in Belfast, surrounded by Northern Irishmen quaffing Harp Ice, Carlsberg, and - confusingly - Coors Light. Really? I had no idea the "silver bullet" had penetrated successfully into Europe.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I know that Liverpool go into today's match with a big advantage. But Pep is backed into a corner, is playing at home, and has a world-class team of players at his disposal. I expect this to be an extremely tough match for both teams.

My gut instinct is a Liverpool loss or draw, but going through on aggregate, which I'd take in a minute. Klopp knows that if Liverpool get just one goal today, Man City need to score at least five to go through. I imagine his game-plan will be to catch Man City on the break as they try to level the tie, snag that crucial away goal, and then control the match as they did in the second half of the first leg. A tall order.

I am also still concerned for Salah's fitness. He certainly needed rest after the first leg, but was it enough? If Liverpool manages to progress to the next round, they will need Salah more than ever, so Liverpool can't afford to lose him.

EDIT: Back in the states after traveling abroad for a week - I was able to watch the Manchester derby in a pub in Belfast, surrounded by Northern Irishmen quaffing Harp Ice, Carlsberg, and - confusingly - Coors Light. Really? I had no idea the "silver bullet" had penetrated successfully into Europe.

Don't worry. The majority of us European's know to leave the Coors Light on the shelf. I'd rather take a Stellar from Belgium thanks!

I think it's going to be a fun night. Just hope Liverpool don't set out to defend for 90 minutes. I think a Man City early goal should make it fun for us neutrals. For you, not so much!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Don't worry. The majority of us European's know to leave the Coors Light on the shelf. I'd rather take a Stellar from Belgium thanks!

I think it's going to be a fun night. Just hope Liverpool don't set out to defend for 90 minutes. I think a Man City early goal should make it fun for us neutrals. For you, not so much!

I don't think there is any danger of Klopp pulling a Mourinho and playing defensive - he will try to win the match. Pretty much everyone is predicting a goal-fest. We shall see.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Don't worry. The majority of us European's know to leave the Coors Light on the shelf. I'd rather take a Stellar from Belgium thanks!

I think it's going to be a fun night. Just hope Liverpool don't set out to defend for 90 minutes. I think a Man City early goal should make it fun for us neutrals. For you, not so much!

Yes, agreed, Coors Light is best left on the shelf; I don't know anyone who drinks it, although it does seem to be widely available.

Interesting to see how the evening unfolds.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Can't see Liverpool not going through now.

 

[JamesMike]

My Liverpool friends are happy so far with the match.

 

[Alphazoid]

Kostas Manolas take a bow

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So, Liverpool go through (and the marvellous Mo Saleh shows his star quality yet again), an incandescent Pep was dismissed to the stands, while Barcelona are put out by Roma.

This will be interesting.

 

[JamesMike]

Roma got a big upset over Barcelona.

 

[pachyderm]