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Buvac was supposed to be the tactical brains behind Klopp's Dortmund and Liverpool sides, so that is potentially a huge loss. Could end up being a parallel to when Carlos Queiroz left Man United after the 2008 season: they never did recover that tactical edge.

Two potent attacks and two suspect defenses: expect fireworks in Kiev.
 
But my understanding is that they know each other since about 25years (first as teammates/players and then for 17y as a managing team. So a falling out is imho quite a big thing in itself - taking the timing into account it appears as some internal-catastrophy has happened..

Since it's crunchtime and Liverpool can win a huuuuge trophy as well as lose big-time (fall out of the CL spots + lose the final against Real) it's understandable that the club doubles down on shutting down info-policies regarding the incident/ plays it down but I'd have thought it's a really big deal.

But I haven't followed really footy-news recently so maybe one could have seen that coming, dunno.

It's all speculation at this point, but it does look like a big personal rift. It's worrying but without more information we can't know what is actually happening.

Buvac was supposed to be the tactical brains behind Klopp's Dortmund and Liverpool sides, so that is potentially a huge loss. Could end up being a parallel to when Carlos Queiroz left Man United after the 2008 season: they never did recover that tactical edge.

Two potent attacks and two suspect defenses: expect fireworks in Kiev.

The (non-Catalan) Spanish press are already inscribing Real Madrid's name on the trophy - most are predicting a blowout Real win. Typical cockiness from Real Madrid - and the sad thing is, it is usually justified. This is why I always enjoy seeing them humbled on the rare occasion that it does happen.
 
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It's all speculation at this point, but it does look like a big personal rift. It's worrying but without more information we can't know what is actually happening.



The (non-Catalan) Spanish press are already inscribing Real Madrid's name on the trophy - most are predicting a blowout Real win. Typical cockiness from Real Madrid - and the sad thing is, it is usually justified. This is why I always enjoy seeing them humbled on the rare occasion that it does happen.

Thanks for clarifying it was the non-Catalan press. They are the absolute worse. Spanish press is not much better, and yeah they think highly of Madrid. Madrid are good, and on paper the better team. This year though, I think it’s pretty even.

The problem I have is tactics. Klopp is one of the best tactically and Zidane can be a complete joke sometimes. He loves the diamond, and will run without if it cost us a trophy. Tactically Liverpool and Klopp have the edge. Roster, Real takes that from almost anyone.

Just look at the crap Zidane try to use in the 2nd leg against Bayern. He was running a backup RW and attacking midfield as the wingback and covering Ribery and Alaba. We couldn’t make Bayern Pay for bringing Alaba so far up the pitch on attach because the whole left side of the formation was defending. Some how we won though, and I give it to the players. But then you have what can only be Zidane’s best tactical game as manager the Juve final last year. We completely ran over Juve, and they had no answers. Who knows which Zidane we get. A lot of the time, it doesn’t matter.
 
Who knows which Zidane we get. A lot of the time, it doesn’t matter.

It doesn't, for the most part. For all we know he is a terrible tactician most of the time. But the legendary politics and man-management issues at Real are far more important than tactics. They are the ultimate team of individuals. Zidane commands the personal respect of the players and has an almost unique amount of political capital with the president and fans. That is why he is still in the job.
 
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It doesn't, for the most part. For all we know he is a terrible tactician most of the time. But the legendary politics and man-management issues at Real are far more important than tactics. They are the ultimate team of individuals. Zidane commands the personal respect of the players and has an almost unique amount of political capital with the president and fans. That is why he is still in the job.

That is probably true, although seeing the video of his halftime speech at the final last year. We got a good look at his tactics that ended up changing the game for good. So he has his moments, but it’s whether they happen all that often that is the question.

I don’t understand the label of “ultimate team of individuals”. Your not the first person I have heard say that, yet I don’t get it. It’s incredible group of talent for sure, but they have to work together to accomplish anything. They don’t play as individuals anymore then any other team. I think they have a far share of selfish players at times, but it’s not extreme.
 
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I don’t understand the label of “ultimate team of individuals”. Your not the first person I have heard say that, yet I don’t get it. It’s incredible group of talent for sure, but they have to work together to accomplish anything. They don’t play as individuals anymore then any other team. I think they have a far share of selfish players at times, but it’s not extreme.

One word: Galacticos.

It's as much about the club's philospophy as it is about their behavior on the pitch. The team is not built with the intention of being a collective working in a 'system'; instead, the president, whose position depends on his popularity with the fans and press, uses Real's massive revenue stream (enhanced by the club's ability to get seemingly unlimited credit from Spanish banks) to buy whoever are perceived to be the best player(s) in the world. Once purchased, it is the manager's job is to keep them from sulking, sub/bench the unpopular ones, and to be the scapegoat whenever results go flat. If results stay bad after that, the president is ousted, a new president is brought in and immediately soothes the masses by buying the latest best player in the world.

Apart from that, the players are largely expected to sort it out themselves on the pitch. Sometimes this results in good collective play, but just as often the team relies on moments of individual brilliance. And they generally succeed. Real can play like a dumpster fire for 89 minutes, but all it takes is one loose ball to Ronaldo, one raking cross from Modric, or a corner kick for Ramos to run on to and wham, bam, trophies won. They've done it again and again and again.

If I sound a little critical, it is because this is not a club model I find to my taste. I am not trying to bash Real Madrid simply out of rancor, but they are the biggest bullies/overdogs in world football. Some people find that off-putting. But they are stacked with world class talent, and they win. And most people like winning. People like to count themselves supporters of the most successful club on the planet. So they are extraordinarily popular, produce moments of footballing brilliance, and I freely acknowledge the astonishing success of their approach.

Love them or hate them Real are one of the top dogs in world club football, and, given the current state of economics and politics in the sport, seem likely to remain at or near the top essentially forever.
 
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One word: Galacticos.

It's as much about the club's philospophy as it is about their behavior on the pitch. The team is not built with the intention of being a collective working in a 'system'; instead, the president, whose position depends on his popularity with the fans and press, uses Real's massive revenue stream (enhanced by the club's ability to get seemingly unlimited credit from Spanish banks) to buy whoever are perceived to be the best player(s) in the world. Once purchased, it is the manager's job is to keep them from sulking, sub/bench the unpopular ones, and to be the scapegoat whenever results go flat. If results stay bad after that, the president is ousted, a new president is brought in and immediately soothes the masses by buying the latest best player in the world.

Apart from that, the players are largely expected to sort it out themselves on the pitch. Sometimes this results in good collective play, but just as often the team relies on moments of individual brilliance. And they generally succeed. Real can play like a dumpster fire for 89 minutes, but all it takes is one loose ball to Ronaldo, one raking cross from Modric, or a corner kick for Ramos to run on to and wham, bam, trophies won. They've done it again and again and again.

If I sound a little critical, it is because this is not a club model I find to my taste. I am not trying to bash Real Madrid simply out of rancor, but they are the biggest bullies/overdogs in world football. Some people find that off-putting. But they are stacked with world class talent, and they win. And most people like winning. People like to count themselves supporters of the most successful club on the planet. So they are extraordinarily popular, produce moments of footballing brilliance, and I freely acknowledge the astonishing success of their approach.

Love them or hate them Real are one of the top dogs in world club football, and, given the current state of economics and politics in the sport, seem likely to remain at or near the top essentially forever.

Someone seems a bit salty, but a few points are correct. One my support of Real does not come from the winning trophies or being the best in the world. Here in the US there are few teams that were accessible to keep track of when I was growing up. Real being one of them. Love them or hate them, they have a world brand. There brand has no limits in terms of the world. The other team was Man U. I choose Real for whatever reason, and I have stuck with it. Both were good and winning, but if it was purely based on trophies, I would have picked Man U.

Anyway, your point about buying who ever they think is the best in the world, and bullying with them, I think the same can be said for Barca, Man U, Man City, and now PSG. After the tv deals, aren’t the top EPL teams the teams with the most money in Europe? This is a problem of world football. If you can get the money, you buy the great players. There are no caps that make the playing field level. It’s about who makes the money. Real do a pretty damn good job of that every year.

Tell me, who was the last Galatico Real brought in? James? How many years ago was that? I am not saying they don’t have great players, but they haven’t gone after a “Galatico” in a while.
 
Have not seen Brighton & Hove Albion play this year so the Man U match will be interesting from that aspect tomorrow.
 
So no fairytale ending for AW and no champions League for Arsenal next year. That will reduce the pool of managers to choose from and the sort of players they can attract.

Get used to looking up Arsenal fans.
 
Sigh.

I'm sorry, but not - not remotely - surprised.

I haven’t play close attention to Arsenal much this year until I got involved here, but man it seems they would have left their hearts on that field tonight. Didn’t seem that way. No CL next year will really cost them. They may be in worst shape then they are now.
 
Diego Costa, that loveable paragon of human virtue, breaks Arsenal's hearts. Ugh. I admit I know nothing about Marseille, but surely Atleti are the heavy favorites to win the Europa League now.

Someone seems a bit salty, but a few points are correct. One my support of Real does not come from the winning trophies or being the best in the world. Here in the US there are few teams that were accessible to keep track of when I was growing up. Real being one of them. Love them or hate them, they have a world brand. There brand has no limits in terms of the world. The other team was Man U. I choose Real for whatever reason, and I have stuck with it. Both were good and winning, but if it was purely based on trophies, I would have picked Man U.

As an American myself, I can sympathize - You couldn't follow, say, Luton Town from the US ten years ago. Even today it's harder to follow a team outside Premier League. This is why, whenever I walk into a "soccer pub" in the US, you see scores of Man Utd/Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern/Celtic fans - and little else. But the next generation of US soccer fans are branching out and following other clubs, many of which are smaller.

Football fandom is all about tribalism, passion, and bias. So it's only fair that I repeat what I've already freely admitted here in the past, which is that I always like underdogs and am tired of seeing Man Utd and Real Madrid dominate, and act like they they are entitled to success. They are my big personal villains.

Finally (and apologies for being long-winded here), "picking a team" is one kind of fandom, but there is something different and more authentic about being born in into it. I support Cleveland sports teams because I was born there - it was not a choice. I have suffered through decades of heartbreak and disaster, embarrassment and apathy - fans that "pick a club" rarely do that because they invariably pick a big, successful club. We Americans of course had no choice but to "pick a club" when it comes to English soccer...I am guilty of this myself - I picked Liverpool because they were a club I could follow on TV in the US at the time, but they were not Man Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal (who were winning everything in England) or Bayern/Real/Barca/Inter/AC Milan/Juve (who were winning everything everywhere else). I only realized after beginning to support Liverpool that they were actually a huge club that had declined somewhat from their previous dominant position in the sport. But, the choice being made, I stuck with it - and, as long as I've supported them, they have won exactly one (more or less) significant trophy - the league cup under Dalglish 2.0 - so I cannot be accused of glory-hunting. ;) If they start winning titles regularly under Klopp I'll have to change my tune.

There is of course one other option - be a neutral fan. And if I could do it all over again I'd probably pick that. I think you take a more balanced view and have less stress...

Tell me, who was the last Galatico Real brought in? James? How many years ago was that? I am not saying they don’t have great players, but they haven’t gone after a “Galatico” in a while.

Neymar could be the next big buy - though at the moment, the biggest obstacle to buying new galacticos is Christiano Ronaldo. His animosity sabotaged Bale's success top a certain extent, and James was just a punt on a World Cup flavor of the month (and Real is not the only club guilty of doing that). If they bring Neymar in it would be a massive and potentially destructive clash of egos.

Messi and Ronaldo have been a massive blip in the usual order of things - until their playing days end it will be hard to sell people on the next "best player in the world", with the possible exception of Neymar.
 
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Diego Costa, that loveable paragon of human virtue, breaks Arsenal's hearts. Ugh. I admit I know nothing about Marseille, but surely Atleti are the heavy favorites to win the Europa League now.
Agreed.


Neymar could be the next big buy - though at the moment, the biggest obstacle to buying new galacticos is Christiano Ronaldo. His animosity sabotaged Bale's success top a certain extent, and James was just a punt on a World Cup flavor of the month (and Real is not the only club guilty of doing that). If they bring Neymar in it would be a massive and potentially destructive clash of egos.

Messi and Ronaldo have been a massive blip in the usual order of things - until their playing days end it will be hard to sell people on the next "best player in the world", with the possible exception of Neymar.
I truly hope Neymar is not the next player Real go after. He brings way too much drama. Keep him away. As for the Ronaldo theory, I am not buying it. Bale’s success has been either slowed by injury or Zidane. Ronaldo has embraced him, but that’s it. Ronaldo doesn’t become best buddies with much of anyone. I don’t believe he has much of anything to do with Bale’s lack of success. Bale succeeding mean Real succeeding, and that’s all Ronaldo cares about. He wants trophies.
 
Stephen Gerrard is now Rangers' manager.

A terrible decision by both Gerrard and Rangers' inept ownership, and it will all end in tears.

I truly hope Neymar is not the next player Real go after. He brings way too much drama. Keep him away. As for the Ronaldo theory, I am not buying it. Bale’s success has been either slowed by injury or Zidane. Ronaldo has embraced him, but that’s it. Ronaldo doesn’t become best buddies with much of anyone. I don’t believe he has much of anything to do with Bale’s lack of success. Bale succeeding mean Real succeeding, and that’s all Ronaldo cares about. He wants trophies.

Neymar is the biggest player in the world outside the Messi/Ronaldo duopoly; he wants out of PSG. If Real do not buy him a significant proportion of Real's fans will be asking why. It might be a dangerous idea in terms of team cohesion but that has never stopped Real Madrid before, and they've kept winning.

Injuries have been a major factor for Bale, to be sure.

An interesting editorial on the unsettling nature of Real's success: the author even dismisses the galactico model (while also acknowledging the impossible-to-ignore presence of Ronaldo) , but muses on the "meaninglessness" of Real's continued success. Some of what he articulates here is, I think, what unsettles me about Real and what I am trying to get at. Pretty much the only constant with them is success - they have no system, no long-term managers, no recognizable ethos. They just, well, win.

Man Utd in their late-Ferguson era were similar. Both elite teams, but not necessarily miles better on paper than the competition. And both played pretty average football at times - yet they just always got just they needed when they needed it most. I still find it puzzling.
 
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Stephen Gerrard is now Rangers' manager.

A terrible decision by both Gerrard and Rangers' inept ownership, and it will all end in tears.



Neymar is the biggest player in the world outside the Messi/Ronaldo duopoly; he wants out of PSG. If Real do not buy him a significant proportion of Real's fans will be asking why. It might be a dangerous idea in terms of team cohesion but that has never stopped Real Madrid before, and they've kept winning.

Injuries have been a major factor for Bale, to be sure.

An interesting editorial on the unsettling nature of Real's success: the author even dismisses the galactico model (while also acknowledging the impossible-to-ignore presence of Ronaldo) , but muses on the "meaninglessness" of Real's continued success. Some of what he articulates here is, I think, what unsettles me about Real and what I am trying to get at. Pretty much the only constant with them is success - they have no system, no long-term managers, no recognizable ethos. They just, well, win.

Man Utd in their late-Ferguson era were similar. Both elite teams, but not necessarily miles better on paper than the competition. And both played pretty average football at times - yet they just always got just they needed when they needed it most. I still find it puzzling.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I know Real is one of the most hated teams in football, and I accept that. I still love to watch them, and will be a fan until I die.
 
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