The 2018-2019 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

With the end of the World Cup and the start of the Europa League and a few of the professional league seasons, I think it is high time to get a new thread going!

The World Cup both met and exceeded expectations. On the one hand, it met expectations in serving to somewhat burnish the reputation of a corrupt and aggressive Russian government, and an equally corrupt FIFA organization that has learned nothing since its recent self-induced meltdown. Qatar 2022, the existence of which remains an utter farce from a political and humanitarian standpoint, is still on.

On the other hand, it exceeded expectations in the sense that the action on the pitch was arguably the best we've seen at World Cup in a generation - wonderful skill, big teams going out early, an unexpected finalist, and all the thrills, chills, and spills that go along with that. It also gave us a chance to experience the warmth and hospitality and of a Russian population who are rarely publicly engaged with the west outside the usual politicized channels.

Let's hope the coming season brings more of the latter and less of the former...there is a lot of good football to look forward to, let's hope it will be at least as exciting as the the last one!

 

[Apple fanboy]

With the end of the World Cup and the start of the Europa League and a few of the professional league seasons, I think it is high time to get a new thread going!

The World Cup both met and exceeded expectations. On the one hand, it met expectations in serving to somewhat burnish the reputation of a corrupt and aggressive Russian government, and an equally corrupt FIFA organization that has learned nothing since its recent self-induced meltdown. Qatar 2022, the existence of which remains an utter farce from a political and humanitarian standpoint, is still on.

On the other hand, it exceeded expectations in the sense that the action on the pitch was arguably the best we've seen at World Cup in a generation - wonderful skill, big teams going out early, an unexpected finalist, and all the thrills, chills, and spills that go along with that. It also gave us a chance to experience the warmth and hospitality and of a Russian population who are rarely publicly engaged with the west outside the usual politicized channels.

Let's hope the coming season brings more of the latter and less of the former...there is a lot of good football to look forward to, let's hope it will be at least as exciting as the the last one!

Can I make a suggestion? Instead of having a yearly thread why don't we just have a football thread? As it always seems quite subjective when to switch threads.

As for the coming season I'm looking forward to it! New manager and virtually a new team. Got to be better than last season!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Actually, I rather like having a different football thread each year.

And this is a natural 'break', as the World Cup has now concluded and a fresh season is about to commence.

It sort of breaks the respective football seasons up, - and the various football cycles (such as European Championships and World Cup) - and thank you, @Lord Blackadder, for having taken the trouble to start a thread for the coming season.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Actually, I rather like having a different football thread each year.

And this is a natural 'break', as the World Cup has now concluded and a fresh season is about to commence.

It sort of breaks the respective football seasons up, - and the various football cycles (such as European Championships and World Cup) - and thank you, @Lord Blackadder, for having taken the trouble to start a thread for the coming season.

Each to their own I guess. Of course not all football seasons run at the same time.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Each to their own I guess. Of course not all football seasons run at the same time.

I also think that it is nice to have a 'break' between seasons, a clear demarcation lone between the end of one and the start of another.

Normally, a football thread would be agog with transfer news, at this time of year, but in a 'normal' (i.e. not European Championships or not World Cup) year, the thread would have finished up around two months ago.

Anyway, it is good to see that Sir Alex Ferguson has recovered sufficiently to be able to thank his well-wishers.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool spent big this summer, and have undoubtedly improved the squad on paper. Salah looks to have recovered from Dirty Ramos' assault, we have a couple shiny new midfielders and of course a new starting keeper.

A final note about the goalkeeper situation, now that we have signed a new one - some have roasted Klopp for not replacing Mignolet/Karius sooner, and I think he should have, but I think I see what Klopp saw in Karius and I find it hard to fault Klopp for really sticking his neck out for what is obviously a great talent. He has the skills to be a top-drawer keeper, but he made too many errors and I think he needs a fresh start. I think he may still come good, but he had too much baggage in a Liverpool shirt. It didn't work out, but I wish him the best and I hope that heartbreaking CL final doesn't weigh too heavily on him.

Can I make a suggestion? Instead of having a yearly thread why don't we just have a football thread? As it always seems quite subjective when to switch threads.

I agree, there is no clear moment to switch threads, it's "some time during the summer" (which of course is mid-season for MLS).

Partly I've done it this way because the folks who used to chat in the football thread years ago (almost all gone now) always did it this way. On the other hand, this also keeps the football thread a bit shorter, and you can easily find old stuff by searching previous threads.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Liverpool spent big this summer, and have undoubtedly improved the squad on paper. Salah looks to have recovered from Dirty Ramos' assault, we have a couple shiny new midfielders and of course a new starting keeper.

A final note about the goalkeeper situation, now that we have signed a new one - some have roasted Klopp for not replacing Mignolet/Karius sooner, and I think he should have, but I think I see what Klopp saw in Karius and I find it hard to fault Klopp for really sticking his neck out for what is obviously a great talent. He has the skills to be a top-drawer keeper, but he made too many errors and I think he needs a fresh start. I think he may still come good, but he had too much baggage in a Liverpool shirt. It didn't work out, but I wish him the best and I hope that heartbreaking CL final doesn't weigh too heavily on him.



I agree, there is no clear moment to switch threads, it's "some time during the summer" (which of course is mid-season for MLS).

Partly I've done it this way because the folks who used to chat in the football thread years ago (almost all gone now) always did it this way. On the other hand, this also keeps the football thread a bit shorter, and you can easily find old stuff by searching previous threads.

The old forum meant that once a thread gets to a certain page number there were issues.
That's why we have post your last purchase xxx threads etc. But on the forum we have now there is no need (which is why those threads just run now and are never updated like they used to be).
And I can never find posts I'm looking for however short a thread is, but that's probably just me!

 

[Silencio]

Mourinho is losing it big time. He's not the only manager dealing with preseason injuries, post World Cup absences, transfer frustrations, or even players being out on paternity leave, but the way he's handling it all is simply embarrassing. He has no clue or no interest in man management, and his tactics are from the stone ages, as usual.

It's going to be a very ugly season at Old Trafford at this rate.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Mourinho is losing it big time. He's not the only manager dealing with preseason injuries, post World Cup absences, transfer frustrations, or even players being out on paternity leave, but the way he's handling it all is simply embarrassing. He has no clue or no interest in man management, and his tactics are from the stone ages, as usual.

It's going to be a very ugly season at Old Trafford at this rate.

Guarantee it explodes at Old Trafford this year and the special one will blame
The owners
The players
The press
Will not blame himself!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Mourinho is losing it big time. He's not the only manager dealing with preseason injuries, post World Cup absences, transfer frustrations, or even players being out on paternity leave, but the way he's handling it all is simply embarrassing. He has no clue or no interest in man management, and his tactics are from the stone ages, as usual.

It's going to be a very ugly season at Old Trafford at this rate.

Guarantee it explodes at Old Trafford this year and the special one will blame
The owners
The players
The press
Will not blame himself!

It is not just that he 'has no clue or interest in management' (though his man management skills are dismal, as he is a selfish bully), rather, it is that he is getting in his excuses/retaliation in first, and using his known unpleasant persona to dampen expectations of possible success, and - but, of course - casting the blame elsewhere for what I suspect he already believes will be an underwhelming season.

Now, needless to say, the World Cup took its toll on other teams, - Spurs and Liverpool come to mind, not to mention Manchester City (and one or two from Arsenal) so this excuse is not likely to hold much by way of water or credibility as several other managers will face the same problems.

Likewise, the stuff about injuries, transfers, and - indeed - paternity leave. (Contrast the thoughtful way that Southgate dealt with this precise matter, when one of his players had to go home to attend the birth of his child, in a gracious and genuinely impressive manner, with Mourinho's selfish sulks.)

However, Mourinho is no longer the stylish 'new kid' on the block, and his methods and means are known, and outmoded. He is no longer the media darling he was a decade ago. Moreover, he has underachieved to date at Old Trafford, and is clearly already getting in his excuses and justifications early.

And, on top of that, questions will be asked about how he fails to get the best he possibility can out of the talented squad at his disposal.

What is more interesting is his history to date when he starts a season on a sour note; he rarely lasts the season at the club in question, or departs explosively at the end of it.

Remember, in addition to the known - and talented quantities of Pep Guardiola - who had a superlative season last year, Mauricio Pochettino must feel vindicated at Spurs - to a certain extent, Spurs supplied the backbone for the England team, - assuming they remain injury free, and assuming a slow start, they could have a very good season, buoyed by the confidence that the WC must have given them, to have been able to play that well for so long on such a stage, and there are the intelligent buys made by Jurgen Klopp to address deficiencies in Liverpool - Mourinho will also face two new managers, - who remain, in a way, somewhat unknown quantities - at Chelsea and Arsenal.

 

[bmac4]

Anyone watching the ICC? Looking forward to seeing Madrid tomorrow night. They are bringing the whole squad, so it should be interesting. The Barca Tottenham game was pretty entertaining, and nice to see a pretty decent squad Liverpool put out. I know of it means much, but good to see club football back.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Anyone watching the ICC? Looking forward to seeing Madrid tomorrow night. They are bringing the whole squad, so it should be interesting. The Barca Tottenham game was pretty entertaining, and nice to see a pretty decent squad Liverpool put out. I know of it means much, but good to see club football back.

International Colour consortium?

I hope it tires out the Liverpool team before the PL kicks off!

 

[bmac4]

International Colour consortium?

I hope it tires out the Liverpool team before the PL kicks off!

Lol! Yeah you know they had to name it something stupid. Why the International Champions Cup I don’t know.

You mean the staring 11 for Liverpool?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Lol! Yeah you know they had to name it something stupid. Why the International Champions Cup I don’t know.

You mean the staring 11 for Liverpool?

Yes. Our first game is Liverpool in a couple of weeks.

 

[bmac4]

Yes. Our first game is Liverpool in a couple of weeks.

Good luck lol! They have really started to put together something special. Could be scary good this year.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The other two things that are interesting about José Mourinho's outburst (though, I would argue that it was calculated, not spontaneous) is that, firstly, he is busily belittling, demeaning and undermining his players (especially his youngsters) - running the risk of seeding & sowing discontent and alienating the dressing room - not the first time he has done this, it appears to be a pattern of behaviour he is unable or unwilling to break - and secondly, he did this in the home country of the owners of the club, in a manner that could best be seen as insulting, at a time and a place when they would have anted the tea to shine, and show a fat profit.

This is more than Mourinho getting his excuses in early; this is a Mourinho who is in the early stages of an exit, which could end up being his usual explosive exit or departure.

 

[JamesMike]

I can only hope he leaves my team as soon as possible!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I can only hope he leaves my team as soon as possible!

Agreed.

While I don't care for the man - and I agree with you, his toxic negative personality takes a toll on players and clubs alike - I think part of his anger derives from the fact that he is no longer a media darling, and the footballing world against which he defined himself in England - one dominated by Ferguson and Wenger - has been transformed beyond all recognition.

Tactically and strategically, he brings nothing new to the game, doesn't encourage youngsters - instead he belittles them, - and corrosively diminishes the confidence of the genuinely good players he has at his disposal.

Who can argue - or deny - that Pogba, Fellaini (I don't like the guy, but he was a revelation at the WC, he can play football as well as foul) and Lukaku (and indeed, Lingard and Rashford) all played extremely well at the WC - they were allowed to flower - in a number of different international teams - whereas, at club level, they are a shadow of their potential playing selves.

Teams under Mourinho are less than the sum of their parts, and I cannot think of one player that he has enhanced or made better when that player's manager. The contrast with Guardiola or Klopp (or Pochettino) is striking; under early to mid Wenger, players blossomed as well.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Have just - over the past two days - read a fascinating, barbed, biting, yet thoughtful (and beautifully written) book entitled "Football In Sun And Shadow" by Eduardo Galeano.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Mourinho is losing it big time. He's not the only manager dealing with preseason injuries, post World Cup absences, transfer frustrations, or even players being out on paternity leave, but the way he's handling it all is simply embarrassing. He has no clue or no interest in man management, and his tactics are from the stone ages, as usual.

It's going to be a very ugly season at Old Trafford at this rate.

3rd Season Mourinho. The last time this happened, we had the whole Eva Carneiro debacle. Get out the popcorn. Man Utd fans aren't going to have much patience with him whining about how much money Klopp has spent...

 

[Scepticalscribe]

3rd Season Mourinho. The last time this happened, we had the whole Eva Carneiro debacle. Get out the popcorn. Man Utd fans aren't going to have much patience with him whining about how much money Klopp has spent...

Yes, I think that we will have a ringside seat to a combustion that may well take place before the end of autumn.

Third Season Mourinho - and, unlike when he managed other teams, he has won nothing major with United.

Second place is all well and good, but a second place when you trail by nineteen points - signalling a significant gap in class - is something quite different indeed.

 

[Silencio]

Yes, I think that we will have a ringside seat to a combustion that may well take place before the end of autumn.

Third Season Mourinho - and, unlike when he managed other teams, he has won nothing major with United.

Second place is all well and good, but a second place when you trail by nineteen points - signalling a significant gap in class - is something quite different indeed.

At this rate, he'll be gone by Christmas. There was a little ray of light with the 2-1 victory over Real Madrid last night, but the football was still ugly to watch: it felt like United had only 10% of the ball in the second half and there were 15 white shirts on the pitch. Not good.

One could arguably count the Europa League win as a "major" trophy, though it's definitely not a trophy United fans want to see their club competing for again any time soon.

I guess we'll see what happens until the end of the transfer window, but United's squad is clearly at most third best in the league behind City and Liverpool, and only the "one more signing" Mourinho expects to happen won't be enough to close the gap.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

One could arguably count the Europa League win as a "major" trophy, though it's definitely not a trophy United fans want to see their club competing for again any time soon.

If Liverpool had won it in 2016, I can pretty much guarantee that Man Utd fans would not be calling it a "major trophy".

In reality it's a tough trophy to win, but the fact that it is a second-tier competition under the Champions League means that the upper crust of elite teams will never consider it relevant UNLESS it is their only opportunity to get into the CL - and then they value it only as a means to an end.

It is certainly not considered a big enough trophy to keep Mourinho in his job.

 

[Silencio]

If Liverpool had won it in 2016, I can pretty much guarantee that Man Utd fans would not be calling it a "major trophy".

In reality it's a tough trophy to win, but the fact that it is a second-tier competition under the Champions League means that the upper crust of elite teams will never consider it relevant UNLESS it is their only opportunity to get into the CL - and then they value it only as a means to an end.

It is certainly not considered a big enough trophy to keep Mourinho in his job.

Indeed, we felt quite an upwelling of schadenfreude in the second half of that 2016 final. Now, even the 2017 final feels like it took place a long, long time ago, especially after how United's UCL and FA Cup runs ended in 2018.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You're only as good as your next trophy in this business...