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My comment was regarding Apple's decision to charge $200 more for the i7, when it really should be standard at $1,099.

Apple has never replaced surface-mount components separately. Fixing a failed SSD will mean a new logic board, with a price tag to match.

Well, then I stand corrected. But that is even better, when under Apple Care, however it is highly unlikely that SSD will die during warranty period. Third party repair shops probably give you option to replace storage only, or whole logic board.

And thanks for clarification on i7. Yes, it’s Apple’s way, unfortunately, but I said even before I knew what the price will be: “I am gonna buy it no matter what”.

I have entertained the idea of building Hackintosh, but still, to me it is better when everything is working out of box, and when I do not have to shiver before every Mac OS update if everything is gonna work fine. I will give Apple as much as they ask for what I want now, and then...see you in 5 years.
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Base model is highway robbery for what it offers, even worse than Apple’s. Others are more and less same.
 
I'm pleased, annoyed and holding my judgment until I see am iFixit teardown.

I think I posted my ideas in some detail for the next mac mini a couple times in the monster thread. Apple didn't follow most of them, yet still did pretty decent. What I wasn't expecting was the shift to 65W desktop CPUs, nor Intel's reaction to AMD by pushing up the core counts in Coffee Lake.

Pleased:

Apple did the right thing by leaving 2 USB Type-A ports - I personally would have left more, but 98% of the time it'll be ok, and adding a USB 3 type-a hub isn't costly. It's a mini - you're going to plug in a USB Keyboard and mouse for starters, and you probably have thumb drives or an external hard drive laying around, perhaps even a webcam.

If they went with only one type-A or none like on the macbook pro's, it would have been a failure to many people. Given Apple's recent track record I don't think any of us thought keeping the type-A ports was sure thing.

The CPU options are nice, and not too terribly priced (unlike RAM and SSD). Right now there are not a lot of SKUs in the Coffee Lake Desktop lineup and it was Intel's choice to reserve hyper threading for i7s only, so Apple just dealt with it. Regarding the loss of hyperthreading - In various testing with game engines and high-end compression, having hyper threading is like getting 1.35 to 1.5 the cores, with some caveats (like if all cores are doing heavy memory read/writes you max out bandwidth even without HT), so under max situations the 6-core i7-8700 is like having 8 or 9 cores total, which combined with the higher base clock and turbos thanks to the 14nm+++ process, is a real nice jump over the i7-3720QM in my 2012. The base i3 is a decent jump over the 2014's i7 - we were that overdue.

RAM is user serviceable again! and up to 64GB! Big, smart win on Apple's part. Big companies like my previous employer are going pay for Apple RAM due to IT policy and that's fine. Power users like you and I are going to be happy replacing RAM on our own terms and schedule.

Overall - It's entirely possible to have a 2018 mini doing heavyweight duty in a build/server/transcoder/etc type of role, because of the combination of components: 10Gb Ethernet (which is probably 2-3 years from becoming more common in SOHO situations), 64GB of RAM, 12 CPU threads, and a very fast primary drive with ~3500MB/s peak through put and thunderbolt 3 additional storage.

I mean, in those types of roles none of the Mini's components/subsystems are "weak links" - a metric crap-ton of computing can be done very quickly without the 2018 Mini breaking a sweat.

Annoyed:

The UHD 630 iGPU isn't that hot, and gamine will remain a weak spot on the Mini, especially given the 4K and 5K montior support (yay, finally!) I do game testing on Intel NUCs, and the Iris Plus 655 would have been nicer, as it benchmarks about double the UHD 630 (which benchs about 1.6x/ 2.7x the GPUs in the 2014/2012 minis), but only the mobile 28W CPUs have it.

What Apple could do, and was a golden opportunity missed IMHO, is offer a special version of the Mini with the i7-8706G CPU - It's a 65W TDP chip, same as the other CPUs, but that 4GB HBM2 Radeon Vega would give it enough punch to do VR work and pretty decent (though not greatest) gaming on. I'm pretty sure I know why they didn't thought - it would have required a different chipset and thus board (but Apple has has multiple mainboards for the same generation of Mini's before), or even convinced Intel to make a Coffee Lake version. I wonder if this means the Hades Canyon NUC hasn't sold well and the -G CPUs will be discontinued soon?

Yes, eGPUs are an option.. but compatible choices are limited and pricey and not that many people are going to want to hook up a second box significantly larger than the Mini itself.

I don't see eGPUs being the popular solution that some people are hoping for.

Holding my Judgment:

Preliminary reports say the SSD is soldered onto the motherboard, but it's not clear if that's true, or the SSD just isn't "user serviceable" like the RAM. The 2014 Mini had it's RAM soldered, but they didn't try to solder the SSD. And to be honest, it doesn't make much sense to do that. SSD fails and you have to replace the entire mainboard, which is now a lot more expensive, much less manufacturing flexibility, Refurb 2018 minis would come with SSDs that might be well on their way to being worn out (lots of Apple Care claims in 2021+), and so on. And I don't see Apple leaving empty chip sockets on the mainboard - given that the difference in storage runs 16x from low end (128GB) to high end (2TB).

And of course... the price. Sure you can add external storage, but it's not the same. In short, it sucks for more reasons that I've mentioned here.

So I'm going to wait for the teardown to confirm if the flash chips are soldered on, or if it's a removable, and thus replaceable SSD. Even if the connector isn't standard like in the 2014, someone like OWC is likely to step in... assuming the T2 chip lets them.

If the SSD can be replaced via an iFixit level teardown, I'll probably get a 2018 sooner than later, otherwise I'll feel pressed to wait and see if a 1TB or 2TB is any better as a refurb due to the high cost.

Whew! that's too much typing. I should wait until we're all waiting for the 2022 Mini before getting worked up again.


I agree: the GPU is a bit lame. Not sure how many would need Iris, but it would be nice to have that as an option.
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Well, then I stand corrected. But that is even better, when under Apple Care, however it is highly unlikely that SSD will die during warranty period. Third party repair shops probably give you option to replace storage only, or whole logic board.

And thanks for clarification on i7. Yes, it’s Apple’s way, unfortunately, but I said even before I knew what the price will be: “I am gonna buy it no matter what”.

I have entertained the idea of building Hackintosh, but still, to me it is better when everything is working out of box, and when I do not have to shiver before every Mac OS update if everything is gonna work fine. I will give Apple as much as they ask for what I want now, and then...see you in 5 years.
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Base model is highway robbery for what it offers, even worse than Apple’s. Others are more and less same.


Yeah, i3 as the low-end is kind of weird. AFAIK, it's the first i3 in a Mac since maybe 2010. Base should have been i5 or i7.
 
To be fair, Intels classifications have changed a lot since 2010. I wouldn’t be surprised if the i3 performs better than the i5 in the 2014 mini.
It does, just as a desktop Sandy Bridge i3 in 2011 easily outperformed a mobile Core 2 Duo from 2007, yet Apple chose not to use the Core i3 for that generation of iMac (or its mobile equivalent for the Mac mini).

Don't forget, the 2014 Mac mini is four-year-old mobile hardware, and its CPU was superseded more than three years ago.
 
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It is SO nice to be reading "I'm going to do X with my new Mini" posts rather than the past six years of "G***D*** it, where's the new Mini" posts.

It's nice to have a thread where people talk about what they're going to use it for, now how much they're not going to buy it because it isn't exactly what they expected/hoped it would be, or because it doesn't have <insert random port from the last 10 years> on the back.
 
Yeah, i3 as the low-end is kind of weird. AFAIK, it's the first i3 in a Mac since maybe 2010. Base should have been i5 or i7.

For what it's worth, Intel shifted everything in response to AMD Ryzen and ThreadRipper. What's a desktop i3 now is almost what used be an i5 a generation back (quad core, no hyper threading or turbo vs quad core no hyperthreading) And we had NO Kaby Lake 6-core parts that I know of (the HEDT CPUs were Skylake-X )

Consider that the base level mac mini with the i3 now almost matches the original 6-core Intel Gulftown processor (which was a 130w TDP part!) in benchmarks (Passmark) : i3-8100 = 8094, 980x (Gulftown) = 8790 and almost doubles the scores of the previous Mini's top CPU (i7-4578U)

I can live with the nomenclature change knowing that it's got that much processing punch. And if not, I'll spring for the i7, which doubles the scores over the i3 (3x the top 2014 Mini's scores).

These jumps in CPU horsepower are way greater than what we've been used to seeing, along with 4x the max memory and 3-4x the SSD speeds.

The GPU is the only thing they didn't move as far forward, and it's still a step forward.. it may not have EDRAM or be dedicated, but it has HDMI 2.0, proper 23.9x FPS playback, 4K @ 60hz and 5K @ 60hz - three monitor support (up from 2), and VP8/VP9 and H.265/HEVC acceleration (Quick Sync) ... All these things which the 2014 Mini lacked. It's good for videos, games being the only weak spot really.
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It does, just as a desktop Sandy Bridge i3 in 2011 easily outperformed a mobile Core 2 Duo from 2007, yet Apple chose not to use the Core i3 for that generation of iMac (or its mobile equivalent for the Mac mini).

Don't forget, the 2014 Mac mini is four-year-old mobile hardware, and its CPU was superseded more than three years ago.

Honestly, the 2014 Mini was pretty weak the day it was released, and only fell further behind with time.

The 2018 Mini on the other hand... it's not weak today, and it's going to take a while for enough progress to be made to fall behind the latest and greatest. And if Apple actually refreshes it in 2 years or less, it may never get to that point (think 2012 quad cores - they stayed competitive much longer)

The only area the 2018 isn't right up there is gaming/GPU power. Which is why I have this guy: :D
j638RTp.jpg

(i7-7700T, 1TB 970 Evo+2TB 860 EVO, 32GB, 6GB GTX 1060) but it doesn't run OSX
 
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Honestly, the 2014 Mini was pretty weak the day it was released, and only fell further behind with time.
No argument there.
The 2018 Mini on the other hand... it's not weak today, and it's going to take a while for enough progress to be made to fall behind the latest and greatest. And if Apple actually refreshes it in 2 years or less, it may never get to that point (think 2012 quad cores - they stayed competitive much longer)
The $799 2012 quad-core had CPU performance equivalent to the base 15" MacBook Pro. The same is not true for the 2018 generation of each, as hex-core has moved in to become the new quad-core tier of performance (and this will only become more apparent moving forward, especially to those who aren't likely to upgrade their mini within the next two years).
 
For anyone concerned with fan noise, I stumbled across an interesting note in their tech specs. The Mac Mini allegedly operates at 4dBA at idle - compare this to the 12dBA at idle levels of the 2013 Mac Pro. For a frame of reference, 25 dBA is about the loudness of someone whispering in a quiet room. Of course we're talking about idle noise, but this is encouraging at least. We'll have to wait for max-temp levels, but Apple generally likes to keep things as quiet as possible.
 
For anyone concerned with fan noise, I stumbled across an interesting note in their tech specs. The Mac Mini allegedly operates at 4dBA at idle - compare this to the 12dBA at idle levels of the 2013 Mac Pro. For a frame of reference, 25 dBA is about the loudness of someone whispering in a quiet room. Of course we're talking about idle noise, but this is encouraging at least. We'll have to wait for max-temp levels, but Apple generally likes to keep things as quiet as possible.

You HAVE to make a compromise, you cannot reinvent the physics! Either the fan in Mini will spin very fast, and therefore be somewhat loud, but be able to keep the TurboBoost speeds, OR the CPU will thermal throttle under heavy load, and drop maybe all the way down to the base clock to maintain the sub T-junction temperature, with fans running not too fast/loud.

Another option would be to have larger fans which can move greater volume of air, therefore you wouldn’t need such high RPM speeds. But that is impossible in this Mini, with such design. Smaller fans need to spin faster to push higher air volumes. Faster spinning fans create more turbulence, more turbulence = more noise.

Maybe they have engineered fan blades to slightly push more air, but that promise has already failed once, in the MacBook Pro.
 
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Does anyone have thoughts on why this might happen/real life use cases?

I don't think you'll see 10Gb Eth outside specialised uses (some data centers, more likely in things like render farms I'd imagine).

There aren't a lot of SOHO-targeted devices out there honestly, and for the vast majority of people it's overkill. Hell, for most people's use wired Gigabit Eth is overkill.
 
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Hello everyone, just wanted to say this was a long awaited step up from the 2014 base model in every respect in my view. With upgradeable ram and many ways to connect other drives I don't see a need for a huge internal drive at least not for the regular consumer like myself. Was very excited to see that Hdmi port. The base is a lil high but everything I had been waiting for. Everything was made faster then the 2014,cpu, upgradeable memory, hard drive, gpu. Put that all together and its going to be a great lil machine. Nov 6th will be a fun day! nice going Apple! patience is rewarded.
 
nice going Apple! patience is rewarded.
I do not agree. Nice update, for sure, but for this amount of patience, not that grandiose. In 4 years they could have built a whole new Mac Mini, from the ground up.

But there are no resources for such task. You might ask “how does company with 1T in value does not have know-how to do a whole new product”. Oh yes, they do, but almost whole that brainpower has shifted to the iOS and Watch devices. The rest, miserable part of that is on the Mac OS.

I do not blame them, though. This is how corporation function, they invest in what promises a return, and Apple is after all, another corporation.
 
I do not agree. Nice update, for sure, but for this amount of patience, not that grandiose. In 4 years they could have built a whole new Mac Mini, from the ground up.

But there are no resources for such task. You might ask “how does company with 1T in value does not have know-how to do a whole new product”. Oh yes, they do, but almost whole that brainpower has shifted to the iOS and Watch devices. The rest, miserable part of that is on the Mac OS.

I do not blame them, though. This is how corporation function, they invest in what promises a return, and Apple is after all, another corporation.
Seems they have concentrated only on phones for way to long. Im sure there are many folks who said I'm not going to buy 4 year old tech at today prices. my 2011 just bit the dust...threw it in the oven and got a few more weeks out of it . ill be interested in benchmarks comparing the old base vs the new. It will make for a nice media center which is how I use mine. Wife will be glad I'm off the iMac.
 
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Don't want an iMac as Im not keen on an all-in-one.

The poor GPU puts me off of the otherwise good Mac Mini - I don't want to have to have a larger eGPU alongside.
When spec'd well and with the eGPU, even without the monitor yet, Im looking at iMac money - a i7 good spec iMac at that, so would rather go a bit more for a base iMac Pro.

Guess that puts me in the waiting list to see what the new Mac Pro brings..... although it will cost more, if is a good spec, and is upgradeable, Im all over it....
 
I's great it was updated. Maybe they should of offered a dual core version as a cheaper option just for entry level people though.
 
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If the SSD can be replaced via an iFixit level teardown, I'll probably get a 2018 sooner than later, otherwise I'll feel pressed to wait and see if a 1TB or 2TB is any better as a refurb due to the high cost.
Where I am at for now.

The choke point for me is the cost of storage. I really want 1TB, but it is just not an option at new prices. Maybe a refurb with 512GB instead, in 6-12 months.
 
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stellarvixen wrote:
"The storage is probably soldered, but just because storage is soldered, that doesn’t mean that it is not removable at all. If (let’s hope not) your Mac Mini get storage failure, and you take it to Apple to fix it, they are not gonna swap the entire motherboard. What they are gonna do instead is de-solder old storage and solder the new one in its place."

Haha.
This is something that will NEVER happen.
 
But that is even better, when under Apple Care [...]

Side note: got to love the $99 MM vs. $379 MBP price for AC+ :D (I mean, introducing portability, KB, display, etc., obviously there's more opportunity for something to go wrong with a MBP, but I still factor that into the TCO :))

I think I paid $49 for "regular" AC for my previous Mini!
 
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stellarvixen wrote:
"The storage is probably soldered, but just because storage is soldered, that doesn’t mean that it is not removable at all. If (let’s hope not) your Mac Mini get storage failure, and you take it to Apple to fix it, they are not gonna swap the entire motherboard. What they are gonna do instead is de-solder old storage and solder the new one in its place."

Haha.
This is something that will NEVER happen.
Yes, someone already said that. But third party repair shops will, they give you a choice where there is.


But, this is valid as long as Apple does not activate the feature in T2 which will make such repairs impossible.
 
I's great it was updated. Maybe they should of offered a dual core version as a cheaper option just for entry level people though.

People are already complaining about the i3 quad even though it’s scoring close to the 2017 5k i5. In 2018/19 all new PCs should have at least a quad core.
 
People are already complaining about the i3 quad even though it’s scoring close to the 2017 5k i5. In 2018/19 all new PCs should have at least a quad core.

I have an m3 MacBook and it runs great. A cheaper Mac mini with dual core would be fine for the 399/499 price point . I repeat again its great they have updated it and I'm not complaining at all. Just saying some people will want a cheaper option as entry to MacOS.
 
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External is a real option.

I don't need blinding speed, so an external SATA SSD over USB 3 is fine. Not to mention cheap. Already have an SSD, just need a good quality case for it.

Make it the boot drive, and keep a clean copy of the basic OS on the 128GB internal drive.

But no hurry. If my 2012 Mini holds up, then it won't happen until at least mid next year.
 
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