— The 2018 Mac Mini Thread —

[pfx7]

Generally, I use the basic apps. Word, iTunes, photos, and Aperture (still). I don’t imagine I’d push the gpu much.

It seems like the biggest hit to the GPU is when you pair it with a 4K monitor and run it at a scaled resolution.

I was having issues with the performance on the base MM (i3+8GB of RAM); it would slow down when I was watching a movie and compiling code at the same time. The video would lag. This was all when coupled with a 4K monitor.

So I got another mini with an i5 + 16GB of RAM to see if it was the RAM that was causing the issue, and it seems like that was the case. Things feel smoother now, and all the issues I was facing are gone. I can browse through RAW image files easily while compiling code in the background and a video running. I think the problem is the lack of RAM; the GPU has no internal memory (unlike their mobile GPU counterparts) and dynamically shares the RAM with the CPU (up to 1.5GB).

 

[Ploki]

I think the problem is the lack of RAM; the GPU has no internal memory (unlike their mobile GPU counterparts) and dynamically shares the RAM with the CPU (up to 1.5GB).

that means only 6-7GB is available for the gpu, and then the system stars paging to drive.

 

[SpacemanSpiffed]

It seems like the biggest hit to the GPU is when you pair it with a 4K monitor and run it at a scaled resolution.

Somewhat. I think with the compiling you were probably seeing memory pressure due to overall demand on the 8GB Mini, which you didn't have with 16GB.

When it comes to the video display and 4K scaled, there's another factor at play - memory / bus bandwidth. 4K is 34MB per frame buffer. But scaled, it's actually a larger frame buffer. A 5K (125% size) actual frame buffer is ~56MB - over 50% bigger. Having the GPU resample a 5K buffer down to a 4K buffer at 60 hz uses over 3.3 GB/sec of memory bandwidth a second just for reading, and another 2 GB/sec of memory bandwidth writing. Now that's just for updating, which may not be happening every frame. But then you also have the 'read-out' of the frame buffer, where the data is converted to actual video signal, and that does happen every frame. Dual 4K displays will need another 4 GB/sec of memory bandwidth every frame for that.

I don't know the way OSX is actually handling the frame buffers (how many, update strategy, etc), or the actual size of them when scaling is involved, but the tl;dr is that by rescaling and filtering a very large frame buffer to get higher quality images, you can start to use up a measurable chunk of the system's total memory bandwidth (I see the coffee lake CPUs claim 41.6GB/sec of memory bandwidth) which can impact the entire system's performance enough to be measured while it's going on.

I think that overall, the Mini and the Coffee Lake CPUs can handle the bandwidth demands, but if you push it - say multiple 4K scaled displays doing video playback or something, I wouldn't be surprised for it to scream 'uncle' when memory bandwidth demand spikes.

A dedicated GPU with it's own memory has a nice advantage as most all of the video memory traffic is never seen or felt by the CPU.

Source: I was recently working on a video game that needed to shove 11 bytes per pixel for the whole screen across the bus every frame. I could see the impact, and iGPU perf was interesting. Thank goodness for EDRAM.

 

[youdontsay]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about updating sometime in 2019.

Right now, I own a Late 2013, 15" rMBP with i7 2.3, 16G RAM and 512 SSD.
I no longer need the portability of a laptop and was thinking about updating to a mini.

My monitor is this one : https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/del...9dm/apd/210-anyx/monitors-monitor-accessories

My question is, what configuration do you think I should buy to get at least same performances as with my MBP ?

My use :

• 25% for work (Sketch)
• 10% web programing (CSS/HTML/JS)
• 15% for music (Logic Pro/MuseScore)
• 50% for web (netflix/youtube/web browsing)

I was reading all the post regarding the GPU issue. But I only use 2560x1440 monitor as it's sharper than 1080p and puts less stress on the GPU as a 4K screen, right ?

Thanks

 

[Ploki]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about updating sometime in 2019.

Right now, I own a Late 2013, 15" rMBP with i7 2.3, 16G RAM and 512 SSD.
I no longer need the portability of a laptop and was thinking about updating to a mini.

My monitor is this one : https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/del...9dm/apd/210-anyx/monitors-monitor-accessories

My question is, what configuration do you think I should buy to get at least same performances as with my MBP ?

My use :

• 25% for work (Sketch)
• 10% web programing (CSS/HTML/JS)
• 15% for music (Logic Pro/MuseScore)
• 50% for web (netflix/youtube/web browsing)

I was reading all the post regarding the GPU issue. But I only use 2560x1440 monitor as it's sharper than 1080p and puts less stress on the GPU as a 4K screen, right ?

Thanks

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compa...-630-Desktop-Coffee-Lake-i5-i7/m7928vsm356797
should be in roughly the same ballpark as the 750M in your 15".

 

[SpacemanSpiffed]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about updating sometime in 2019.

Right now, I own a Late 2013, 15" rMBP with i7 2.3, 16G RAM and 512 SSD.
I no longer need the portability of a laptop and was thinking about updating to a mini.

My monitor is this one : https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/del...9dm/apd/210-anyx/monitors-monitor-accessories

My question is, what configuration do you think I should buy to get at least same performances as with my MBP ?

My use :

• 25% for work (Sketch)
• 10% web programing (CSS/HTML/JS)
• 15% for music (Logic Pro/MuseScore)
• 50% for web (netflix/youtube/web browsing)

I was reading all the post regarding the GPU issue. But I only use 2560x1440 monitor as it's sharper than 1080p and puts less stress on the GPU as a 4K screen, right ?

Thanks

You won't have any problems with that monitor on your rMBP. Or even running dual displays ( Dell + laptop screen ).

 

[gusping]

Somewhat. I think with the compiling you were probably seeing memory pressure due to overall demand on the 8GB Mini, which you didn't have with 16GB.

When it comes to the video display and 4K scaled, there's another factor at play - memory / bus bandwidth. 4K is 34MB per frame buffer. But scaled, it's actually a larger frame buffer. A 5K (125% size) actual frame buffer is ~56MB - over 50% bigger. Having the GPU resample a 5K buffer down to a 4K buffer at 60 hz uses over 3.3 GB/sec of memory bandwidth a second just for reading, and another 2 GB/sec of memory bandwidth writing. Now that's just for updating, which may not be happening every frame. But then you also have the 'read-out' of the frame buffer, where the data is converted to actual video signal, and that does happen every frame. Dual 4K displays will need another 4 GB/sec of memory bandwidth every frame for that.

I don't know the way OSX is actually handling the frame buffers (how many, update strategy, etc), or the actual size of them when scaling is involved, but the tl;dr is that by rescaling and filtering a very large frame buffer to get higher quality images, you can start to use up a measurable chunk of the system's total memory bandwidth (I see the coffee lake CPUs claim 41.6GB/sec of memory bandwidth) which can impact the entire system's performance enough to be measured while it's going on.

I think that overall, the Mini and the Coffee Lake CPUs can handle the bandwidth demands, but if you push it - say multiple 4K scaled displays doing video playback or something, I wouldn't be surprised for it to scream 'uncle' when memory bandwidth demand spikes.

A dedicated GPU with it's own memory has a nice advantage as most all of the video memory traffic is never seen or felt by the CPU.

Source: I was recently working on a video game that needed to shove 11 bytes per pixel for the whole screen across the bus every frame. I could see the impact, and iGPU perf was interesting. Thank goodness for EDRAM.

Thank you for your insight. Very interesting to read.

Thankfully I run my 4K monitor in a scaled resolution, have 16GB and only use my mini for casual things! I'm probably going to get another 4K monitor, however, two in 'looks like 1080p' mode shouldn't be a problem. I hope...

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

I agree with you on this. I have been using a 2011 iMac for doing light photo editing using the standalone CS6, plus the DXO NIK Software package, and OnOne. I replaced the internal hard drive with a 1TB SSD, and added as much RAM as possible. This computer has been nothing but a good performer for me, but as I contemplate an upgrade and look at the future iMac's and the possibility that the screen with sRGB won't be available, my eyes are turning to the Mac Mini plus an Asus Designo MX27US screen. However, it is going to be very expensive to buy a Mini with an i7 processor, and even with an i3.

See...If Apple would allow for buyers to choose a bare-bone Mac Mini without RAM, without a SSD, and with a processor starting with perhaps an i5, then I could buy and install the RAM and the SSD from a different manufacturer myself. I would love to buy an i7 Mac Mini, but at $1,100 it is just too much. I will just continue using the old iMac for a few more years and see which way the iMac turns. Maybe I should consider a Hackintosh?

In relation to all Macs, I just don't like the idea about Apple's "compactness" these days. I look at the small size Macs of today, specially the Pro, and from a consumer's point of view don't like them as much as older Macs. For example, I enjoy my old 13" MacBook Pro with the old ports and slow, internal hard drive (replaced with an SSD), the CD/DVD drive, and so on. It's heavy and slow, but...

Yeah, if you already like your 2011 iMac, you might be happy having an upcoming iMac as an upgrade. I guess it depends on one's needs. Mac Minis are good if you already have a display / speaker / peripheral setup. Granted, a laptop can suffice (and the high-end MacBook Pros have better internal graphics anyway).

So, the Mini isn't necessarily for me (either way), and the high-end is nowhere as nice of a value as the mid-range. But, hey: it's WAY better than the 2014 model. I just wish the base model, at $700, included a quad-core i5 or something—not some i3.

 

[Stephen.R]

Well, to follow on from https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/—-the-2018-mac-mini-thread-—.2151055/page-4#post-26943196, we got a call from the Service Center (a 3rd party, but certified for Apple support) a couple of days ago, to say: "We've reinstalled the software, you can pick it up".

Given that the fault it went in for was "hardware crash during OS reinstall" I suspect we've fallen prey to the beast of "not my problem" and his army of "screw this it's new years eve" monkeys.

Looks like we'll be taking it in to the Apple store in Bangkok, at least they might actually read the previous case notes.

Oh, and to make things better - the 2018 MBP15 I have as a "spare" (well, and travel machine) in case the Mini craps out and needs a repair like this, also had a hard crash today, and sure enough booted up with the common "T2" error message.

 

[youdontsay]

Given that I’m in no rush to buy a new Mac mini, I will probably buy one in 2019 but it could very well be in q4. I saw many concerns about the power of the iGPU in the processor. While I understand there are eGPU available it’s not something I’m interested in. In fact The power of an Iris/Iris Plus is enough for me.

My question is, do we have a date for the release of the next Intel processor suited for the Mac mini ? Even a slight refresh could make me buy one.

Thx

 

[open0]

In the near future, I hope APPLE pay attention on 7 nm Vega-embeded AMD CPU instead of 14 nm Intel CPU for the next MAC Mini

 

[gusping]

Given that I’m in no rush to buy a new Mac mini, I will probably buy one in 2019 but it could very well be in q4. I saw many concerns about the power of the iGPU in the processor. While I understand there are eGPU available it’s not something I’m interested in. In fact The power of an Iris/Iris Plus is enough for me.

My question is, do we have a date for the release of the next Intel processor suited for the Mac mini ? Even a slight refresh could make me buy one.

Thx

It will be end of 2019 at the earliest I'd have thought, plus the 6-12 month delay Apple has, so expect a new Mini (if they update it before 4 years is up) with the 10nm CPUs in 2020. I wish I was joking, but I don't see anything new in 2019.

 

[youdontsay]

Ok then. I'll keep hoping for a silent spec bump

 

[Kai the Film Geek]

I write this post...my mac Mini journey...on my 2017 Touch Bar 15" MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM with an AMD Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB of VRAM. It's a great machine which I used with a Sonnet 350w Breakaway Box eGPU fitted with an RX480 with 8GB of VRAM. I use a Benq 27" 4k as my main monitor and an old HP HD 23" for the secondary. Also have various external hard drives...one a USB-C 3.1 raid which runs fast enough for 4K footage.

I used it for graphics work and film editing in DaVinci Resolve amongst others. It played back 4K footage at whatever frame rate it was shot at no problem....even with a limited amount of effects applied. The bottleneck I ran into was the limited amount of RAM...16GB in this case. Which was a bigger problem in Photoshop than in any other software. I tend to work with multiple GB size files with many layers.

I also had a 2013 27" iMac 3.2ghz quad core i7 with a 4GB Nvidia GPU and 32GB of RAM. This machine ran Photoshop much better but only had two Thunderbolt 1 ports along with the usual 4 USB 3.0 ports...so an eGPU option was out of the question in practical terms...I know you can hack them to run on older non-Thunderbolt 3 systems but are obviously limited in data throughput. So this machine was a no-go for Resolve.

An iMac Pro was prohibitively expensive for me..as were the new 2018 i9 32GB MacBook Pros...so when I read of and saw the Apple keynote where the new Mac Mini was announced...I was intrigued. The onboard graphics were obviously pretty useless for me as was the base amount of RAM...but I already had an eGPU so graphics wouldn't be such a problem. The ability to upgrade RAM to 64GB was great although expensive even if you do it yourself and go the non-Apple route. The cost of storage was again ridiculous...but as i stated earlier...I have a fast SSD 3.1 drive...so that wouldn't be a problem. The option for a six-core i7 was also very tempting...

So tempting that I bought the six-core i7 model with a 256GB internal SSD and base RAM of 8GB and sold my iMac...my MacBook Pro is still a great mobile editing and sound recording machine so it stayed.

I upgraded the RAM to 32GB myself using iFixit's guide which went pretty easy...once I seated the RAM properly ... . I also decided...as DaVinci Resolve Studio can use multiple GPUs...that i would get another eGPU based 8GB RX480. This time I got a first gen Razer Core enclosure. Since I already had my monitor setup...there was no more expense there. I also use a Logitech Craft keyboard...so again no more layout. I did however get a space grey Magic Trackpad to match the Mac Mini and sold on my older white version.

I am very pleased with my new set-up which runs Photoshop much better than the MacBook and the iMac. I've only done a limited amount of editing in Resolve but it plays back 4k really smoothly at various frame rates...up to 60fps. Not yet done more complicated edits or colour corrected/effects based timelines so any benefits for that haven't yet been seen by me. I monitor the output using a Blackmagic Design Intensity 4K PCI card housed in a Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 external enclosure to an external 4k 65" Sony TV.

The extra cost involved...to me at least has been worth it and I still have the options down the line of upgrading my graphics card and taking the RAM up to 64GB...so that's my Mac Mini story ...

 

[bigfatipod]

Given that I’m in no rush to buy a new Mac mini, I will probably buy one in 2019 but it could very well be in q4. I saw many concerns about the power of the iGPU in the processor. While I understand there are eGPU available it’s not something I’m interested in. In fact The power of an Iris/Iris Plus is enough for me.

My question is, do we have a date for the release of the next Intel processor suited for the Mac mini ? Even a slight refresh could make me buy one.

Thx

My 2012 QC is still chugging, but I don’t expect another update to the MM anytime soon after the 2018 model. So, that has me wondering about upgrading to the 2018 even if I don’t really need it at the moment. The only thing I can imagine changing is a drop in 3rd party ram prices or a slight sale by Best Buy or B&H - but nothing significant.

 

[gusping]

My 2012 QC is still chugging, but I don’t expect another update to the MM anytime soon after the 2018 model. So, that has me wondering about upgrading to the 2018 even if I don’t really need it at the moment. The only thing I can imagine changing is a drop in 3rd party ram prices or a slight sale by Best Buy or B&H - but nothing significant.

Honestly, I'd just go for it. The speed difference in even the most straightforward tasks will be monumental. Just get the base i5 model if you want, then upgrade the RAM when best suits you.