The 2019-2020 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

Tough match for Liverpool at Carrow Road, requiring some hard work and a superb finish from Mané after an excellent pass from Jordan Henderson. Liverpool showed perhaps a touch of rustiness and the heavy winds led to a little bit of wayward passing on both sides.

Norwich seemed comfortable in their play, worked hard, and created one excellent scoring chance and a couple half chances. But they didn't have that extra bit of skill they needed to get the goals or keep Liverpool out.

would not be terribly surprised (but would be appalled) to see the two year ban reduced to a year on appeal.

I not only would not be surprised, I expect it to happen. And yes, should that happen it would be absolutely shameful. They either did what they are accused of doing or they did not. If they did, two years is barely enough punishment in my opinion. If they did not, they shouldn't be punished at all. A reduced punishment serves neither outcome fairly.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Tough match for Liverpool at Carrow Road, requiring some hard work and a superb finish from Mané after an excellent pass from Jordan Henderson. Liverpool showed perhaps a touch of rustiness and the heavy winds led to a little bit of wayward passing on both sides.

Norwich seemed comfortable in their play, worked hard, and created one excellent scoring chance and a couple half chances. But they didn't have that extra bit of skill they needed to get the goals or keep Liverpool out.



I not only would not be surprised, I expect it to happen. And yes, should that happen it would be absolutely shameful. They either did what they are accused of doing or they did not. If they did, two years is barely enough punishment in my opinion. If they did not, they shouldn't be punished at all. A reduced punishment serves neither outcome fairly.

I have nothing against Norwich. In fact I think it’s good for either Norwich or Ipswich to be in the PL from a geographical point of view. However I’m grateful they didn’t secure any points this evening. Keeps them well below us.

 

[pachyderm]

Wednesday are a complete mess.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Wednesday are a complete mess.

I can relate to those issues!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Wednesday are a complete mess.

Early red cards are usually disastrous. Like when Mané got sent off against City in the 37th minute and Liverpool went on to lose 5-0.

EDIT: The Villa-Spurs match turned out to be a barn-burner. Spurs up to 5th now, and 5th could turn out to be a valuable place to reach this season given Man City's ban.

I chose to watch the Arsenal-Newcastle match and thus far not so great...it feels like 10th v 11th...which it is. Arsenal clearly look the more skillful side but their play is very slow and Newcastle look pretty untroubled, as well as creating a couple very good chances of their own. Neither team is playing badly but you get the sense that one goal will settle this affair quite easily.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Early red cards are usually disastrous. Like when Mané got sent off against City in the 37th minute and Liverpool went on to lose 5-0.

EDIT: The Villa-Spurs match turned out to be a barn-burner. Spurs up to 5th now, and 5th could turn out to be a valuable place to reach this season given Man City's ban.

I chose to watch the Arsenal-Newcastle match and thus far not so great...it feels like 10th v 11th...which it is. Arsenal clearly look the more skillful side but their play is very slow and Newcastle look pretty untroubled, as well as creating a couple very good chances of their own. Neither team is playing badly but you get the sense that one goal will settle this affair quite easily.

Is that how it works then? CL place passes down to next place? Does that mean 8th gets into the Europa league (depending on cup winners of course).

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Arsenal were much improved in the second half, and have bagged a couple goals. However Newcastle's Allan Saint-Maximin has been really lively and hit the bar - Newcastle really should have got a goal from one of his several forays into the Arsenal area.

This isn't the first time Arteta has managed to get Arsenal to play better in the second half - not something we're used to seeing from Arsenal.

EDIT: Arsenal with a classic goal for their third, Arsenal-ing it into the net through a series of scurrying runs and short passes. Ozil finishing the move and actually smiling.

Is that how it works then? CL place passes down to next place? Does that mean 8th gets into the Europa league (depending on cup winners of course).

I am not sure, but I do know that the Premier League are guaranteed 4 CL spots. So if Man City are banned, presumably the team finishing next-highest in the league will qualify for the CL in their place. if that team would have qualified for the Europa League, I imagine they will also shuffle that Europa League place to another Premier League team. So 5th place is now probably a CL-qualifying position. Also, if Man City win the League (Carabao) Cup, that Europa League spot will also have to be reassigned. So yes, if the ban stands and other results fall the right way I am guessing that everyone down to 8th in the table could qualify for one of the European cups.

In a way that could be bad for Arsenal if it helps them qualify for the Europa League or even the CL - I would argue that they would probably benefit from a season without any European distractions.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arsenal were much improved in the second half, and have bagged a couple goals. However Newcastle's Allan Saint-Maximin has been really lively and hit the bar - Newcastle really should have got a goal from one of his several forays into the Arsenal area.

This isn't the first time Arteta has managed to get Arsenal to play better in the second half - not something we're used to seeing from Arsenal.

EDIT: Arsenal with a classic goal for their third, Arsenal-ing it into the net through a series of scurrying runs and short passes. Ozil finishing the move and actually smiling.



I am not sure, but I do know that the Premier League are guaranteed 4 CL spots. So if Man City are banned, presumably the team finishing next-highest in the league will qualify for the CL in their place. if that team would have qualified for the Europa League, I imagine they will also shuffle that Europa League place to another Premier League team. So 5th place is now probably a CL-qualifying position. Also, if Man City win the League (Carabao) Cup, that Europa League spot will also have to be reassigned. So yes, if the ban stands and other results fall the right way I am guessing that everyone down to 8th in the table could qualify for one of the European cups.

In a way that could be bad for Arsenal if it helps them qualify for the Europa League or even the CL - I would argue that they would probably benefit from a season without any European distractions.

A brutal first half by Arsenal redeemed by an inspired and transformed team in the second half.

Arsenal defeat Newcastle by four goals to nil, all four scored in the second half, and two around the 90 minute mark.

No goals conceded - although Newcastle had a number of very good attacks and attempts before half time, and agree that Allan Saint-Maximin is an excellent player.

Yes, if the ban on a CL place for Manchester City is upheld, I agree with @Lord Blackadder that this will open up opportunities for clubs further down, possibly as low as eighth.

And, paradoxically, I also agree that a year without the distractions (and resource consuming) temptations of European football may well do Arsenal a lot of good.

Having said that, it is very good to see that Mikel Arteta is able to effect a transformation in how they play in the second half of a game.

A handsome win (yes against Newcastle, and yes, a dismal and brutally bad first half), no goals conceded, and an improved second half performance - I'll happily take that.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

A handsome win (yes against Newcastle, and yes, a dismal and brutally bad first half), no goals conceded, and an improved second half performance - I'll happily take that.

Newcastle are not very good. Arsenal should be beating them, but the club has been underperforming, so if they can start beating poor/mediocre sides 4-0 regularly that would still represent a significant improvement, both in league position and player morale.

I thought Arsenal did not apply enough pressure on Newcastle, especially in transitions after Arsenal lost possession. This is probably my own bias towards Klopp-style counter pressing, but it made Arsenal look slow against a team that gave them plenty of space and time and, Saint-Maximin's efforts aside, didn't test Arsenal's too sternly apart perhaps from set pieces. I like Torreira, and I prefer him in a covering /destroyer role, as does Arteta. Emery had him playing a more attacking position, which I think he is capable of to a degree but is not his comfort zone.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Newcastle are not very good. Arsenal should be beating them, but the club has been underperforming, so if they can start beating poor/mediocre sides 4-0 regularly that would still represent a significant improvement, both in league position and player morale.

I thought Arsenal did not apply enough pressure on Newcastle, especially in transitions after Arsenal lost possession. This is probably my own bias towards Klopp-style counter pressing, but it made Arsenal look slow against a team that give them plenty of space and time. I like Torreira, and I prefer him in a covering /destroyer role, as does Arteta. Emery had him playing a more attacking position, which I think he is capable of to a degree but is not his comfort zone.

Agree with your analysis, but I can see a slow, steady - perhaps incremental - improvement under Mikel Arteta.

Agree, too, that Arsenal should be beating Newcastle readily enough, - especially when playing at home, but, at least they are doing so now.

Since Arteta has been appointed as manager, or head coach, Arsenal have lost once, and appear to be conceding fewer goals than used to be the case.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Agree with your analysis, but I can see a slow, steady - perhaps incremental - improvement under Mikel Arteta.

Arteta has certainly captured the respect of the players, and he has demonstrated an ability to change the game when things are not going right. Both important qualities in a manger. He also has a clear plan, and while I think Arsenal's pressing is still a work in progress there is a clear blueprint and given enough time to develop it Arteta may be able to make it pay dividends going forward.

There is a lot of inconsistency in the top half of the table and a lot of points up for grabs. Every club from Chelsea downwards are vulnerable to the first opponent who puts in a consistent run.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arteta has certainly captured the respect of the players, and he has demonstrated an ability to change the game when things are not going right. Both important qualities in a manger. He also has a clear plan, and while I think Arsenal's pressing is still a work in progress there is a clear blueprint and given enough time to develop it Arteta may be able to make it pay dividends going forward.

There is a lot of inconsistency in the top half of the table and a lot of points up for grabs. Every club from Chelsea downwards are vulnerable to the first opponent who puts in a consistent run.

Oh, agreed completely.

Arsenal are very much a work in progress, but - and this is key - under Arteat there is progress, or some signs of progress, even if it is at the incremental, baby-step, confidence building level.

However, as you have pointed out, he has won the respect of the players, and shown an ability to make changes when initial plans do not appear to be working out. And he has managed - on a few occasions - to galvanise Arsenal in the second half, so that the old tired cliche, "it was a match of two halves" can certainly be applied.

As the Guardian pointed out, this was Arsenal's first home win against a side ranked lower than them, since October (yes, a low bar, I know...). Out of little acorns....

 

[JamesMike]

Getting ready to watch Man U/Chelsea match, Man U needs to get in the goal-scoring mode!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Manchester United score - at what is probably the most psychologically damaging time possible, namely, the minute or two just before half time.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

This is another one of those matches that will be filed under "VAR discussion."

A scruffy match, Man Utd are defending solidly as usual. Chelsea remain a bit flaky but the scoreline does flatter the Mancunians, not that they will care.

Meanwhile, superagent Mino Raiola has suggested that Paul Pogba is a "prisoner" at Man Utd...you'd have to think the Pogba experiment is nearly over. It's going to be very hard to sell him at anything other than a substantial loss.

 

[Silencio]

Year after year I'd watch United come down to Stamford Bridge and get hosed by bad calls and plain old bad luck. Nice to get a little break from all that, even if for a short while.

United would have 7-9 more points if they had signed Fernandes in the summer like they should have. He provides the creativity and vision in attack that Lingard and Pereira clearly don't have.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Year after year I'd watch United come down to Stamford Bridge and get hosed by bad calls and plain old bad luck. Nice to get a little break from all that, even if for a short while.

United would have 7-9 more points if they had signed Fernandes in the summer like they should have. He provides the creativity and vision in attack that Lingard and Pereira clearly don't have.

If anything, the calls went their way tonight, and Chelsea were unlucky with further injuries, Kanté limping off injured this evening, to add to the loss earlier - in a previous match - of Tammy Abraham.

Chelsea had two goals disallowed, and the Guardian have written that it could be argued that Maguire should not still have been on the pitch (as a red card might have been justifiably issued earlier) to be in a position to score Manchester United's second goal.

 

[Silencio]

Would have been harsh to send Maguire off for that, IMO: he was in a very vulnerable position, sliding down the incline on his backside with such momentum that his rear end was elevated off the ground. It was nothing like Son's blatant kickout. Still, it didn't look good and some refs might have given it anyway.

I had to hunt down every available replay angle to judge exactly how much contact Fred made with Azpilicueta. It wasn't much — certainly not enough to send him in turn into Williams with such force.

Giroud was clearly offside by the current VAR standard. They've been calling those back all season long.

You could convince me that Fernandes made contact with Willian's ankle and it wasn't strictly a dive, more like light contact that Willian made a meal out of.

Chelsea really felt the absence of Abraham. He probably would have buried at least one of those chances that Batshuayi wasted.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

A red for Maguire would have been a soft sending off but we've all seen them awarded for less. Man Utd had all the luck, but Chelsea didn't do enough in the match. Both league meetings between these teams this season have flattered Man Utd but the other side of the coin is that Chelsea seem unable to deal with this particular opponent.

Both teams are also missing some of their better players at the moment, which doubtless contributed to the scrappiness of the game at times.

In other news, a big blow for Spurs as Son requires surgery on a broken arm and will be out for weeks. "Down to the bare bones," as Harry Redknapp would say.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A red for Maguire would have been a soft sending off but we've all seen them awarded for less. Man Utd had all the luck, but Chelsea didn't do enough in the match. Both league meetings between these teams this season have flattered Man Utd but the other side of the coin is that Chelsea seem unable to deal with this particular opponent.

Both teams are also missing some of their better players at the moment, which doubtless contributed to the scrappiness of the game at times.

Manchester United did indeed have all the luck, an looked better than they actually are, and - agreed - both teams are missing some of their better players.

However, while it could be argued - with some validity - that Chelsea didn't do enough, they did have two disallowed goals.

In other news, a big blow for Spurs as Son requires surgery on a broken arm and will be out for weeks. "Down to the bare bones," as Harry Redknapp would say.

Son's absence is a big blow, - he played the entire match against Villa carrying an injury picked up in the first minute - and scored twice. A seriously good player, and it is likely that he may be out until the end of the season.

Worse, Spurs are also missing Harry Kane, out with a hamstring injury.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool are back in Europe today. Atleti aren't the power they once were but Simeone is still at the helm and they are at home. Given Liverpool's current run of form it doesn't make sense to change tack, so I expect Klopp to put out a strong starting XI and for the team to play their usual game.

From a tactical standpoint, it is interesting to note that some observers have been describing Liverpool's formation not as a 4-3-3 but as a 2-3-5, recalling soccer's first recognizable formation, the "pyramid" popular from the 1880s through the interwar period. Of course, it's a very, very much evolved version but I take their point. It certainly looks like a 2-3-5 going forward.

Son's absence is a big blow, - he played the entire match against Villa carrying an injury picked up in the first minute - and scored twice. A seriously good player, and it is likely that he may be out until the end of the season.

Worse, Spurs are also missing Harry Kane, out with a hamstring injury.

The worst thing about Spurs' predicament is that it makes me feel just a tiny bit sympathetic towards Mourinho. Though, he knew going into this job that he'd have a thin squad to work with and a couple key injuries could leave him in a crisis.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Liverpool are back in Europe today. Atleti aren't the power they once were but Simeone is still at the helm and they are at home. Given Liverpool's current run of form it doesn't make sense to change tack, so I expect Klopp to put out a strong starting XI and for the team to play their usual game.

From a tactical standpoint, it is interesting to note that some observers have been describing Liverpool's formation not as a 4-3-3 but as a 2-3-5, recalling soccer's first recognizable formation, the "pyramid" popular from the 1880s through the interwar period. Of course, it's a very, very much evolved version but I take their point. It certainly looks like a 2-3-5 going forward.

........

Fascinating.

I have read about the system - or formation - of play - vast numbers of forwards (but playing more as individuals rather than as a collective, a team) that was prevalent in the early days of the game in the latter part of the nineteenth century.

.........

The worst thing about Spurs' predicament is that it makes me feel just a tiny bit sympathetic towards Mourinho. Though, he knew going into this job that he'd have a thin squad to work with and a couple key injuries could leave him in a crisis.

Things are very bad indeed when one finds oneself feeling ever so slightly sorry - or sympathetic - towards Mourinho (there is a lot less talk about The Special One).

Spurs have long had a thin squad; and, under Pocchettino they vastly exceeded expectations, and, in essence, played far above what one might have expected given their resources.

However, the major drawback of a thin squad is that it lacks strength in depth, and, once you have injuries to a few key players, the squad can begin to look a bit threadbare.

Since the season started, and well before Spurs dispensed with his services, I had thought that Pocchettino - who was a outsanding manager - had brought them as far as they, or that particular squad of players, could expect to go.

 

[JamesMike]

Liverpool are back in Europe today. Atleti aren't the power they once were but Simeone is still at the helm and they are at home. Given Liverpool's current run of form it doesn't make sense to change tack, so I expect Klopp to put out a strong starting XI and for the team to play their usual game.

From a tactical standpoint, it is interesting to note that some observers have been describing Liverpool's formation not as a 4-3-3 but as a 2-3-5, recalling soccer's first recognizable formation, the "pyramid" popular from the 1880s through the interwar period. Of course, it's a very, very much evolved version but I take their point. It certainly looks like a 2-3-5 going forward.



The worst thing about Spurs' predicament is that it makes me feel just a tiny bit sympathetic towards Mourinho. Though, he knew going into this job that he'd have a thin squad to work with and a couple key injuries could leave him in a crisis.

Don't worry the sympathy feeling will go away quickly.

Watching Bayern beating Köln 4-1 so far and later will watch Liverpool play Atlético Madrid.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A red for Maguire would have been a soft sending off but we've all seen them awarded for less. Man Utd had all the luck, but Chelsea didn't do enough in the match. Both league meetings between these teams this season have flattered Man Utd but the other side of the coin is that Chelsea seem unable to deal with this particular opponent.

Both teams are also missing some of their better players at the moment, which doubtless contributed to the scrappiness of the game at times.

In other news, a big blow for Spurs as Son requires surgery on a broken arm and will be out for weeks. "Down to the bare bones," as Harry Redknapp would say.

Son has been playing really well. That’s a big blow indeed.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Son has been playing really well. That’s a big blow indeed.

Not only had he been playing very well, but his importance to the team had increased, if anything, sever since Harry Kane was injured.

A serious blow and a big loss.