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The 2022-2023 Football Thread

Apple fanboy said:
Including Liverpool? The CL gets a lot less interest than the PL with most people I know. But I suppose it’s a smaller pool of fans who have an interest in the CL.
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I've previously mentioned here that if 'Pool join a super league I'm done with them as long as that lasts. I don't hold with the the concept and have no interest in watching it or giving it any of my money.

There is a lot of other good football out there to watch and support.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
I've previously mentioned here that if 'Pool join a super league I'm done with them as long as that lasts. I don't hold with the the concept and have no interest in watching it or giving it any of my money.

There is a lot of other good football out there to watch and support.
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Indeed. However I couldn’t not support West Ham if I tried. It’s in my blood.
 
Apple fanboy said:
Indeed. However I couldn’t not support West Ham if I tried. It’s in my blood.
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Not even if they somehow sold their souls (and were sufficiently successful to be tempted and invited to join), or wished to partake of such a Super League?

Given your loathing of "the greedy six", would this not prompt if not a re-think, then, at least a re-asssessment of your support?

Or, at least, a desire to tender it less unconditionally, or uncritically?

I will be honest:

Had that proposed Super League gone ahead, I would have found it very difficult to continue to support Arsenal with anything to the degree of enthusiasm that I currently have; my support would have become much more conditional, much more critical, much more reluctant, (and I have supported them since, as a very small kid, I saw them win the Double, and even slightly before that), and I would have found an alternative outlet for an emotional (and one that was not ethically compromised) expression of support in the Premier League, and/or other levels of the League.
 
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Scepticalscribe said:
Not even if they somehow sold their souls (and were sufficiently successful to be tempted and invited to join), or wished to partake of such a Super League)?

Given your loathing of "the greedy six", would this not prompt if not a re-think, then, at least a re-asssessment of your support?

Or, at least, a desire to tender it less unconditionally, or uncritically?

I will be honest:

Had that proposed Super League gone ahead, I would have found it very difficult to continue to support Arsenal with anything to the degree of enthusiasm that I currently have; my support would have become much more conditional, much more critical, much more reluctant, (and I have supported them since as a very small kid, I saw them win the Double, and even slightly before that), and I would have found an alternative outlet for an emotional (and one that was not ethically compromised) expression of support in the Premier League.
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I’d certainly be less happy about it, but I would still be looking out for their results. I’ve been following for as long as I can remember.
But I don’t attend matches anymore for a variety of reasons, so I’d not be supporting them financially I suppose.
 
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To go back to the Ivan Toney/Gambling/Hypocrisy thing for a minute - I agree that he should be punished. I also think he should be supported - he clearly needs help with his gambling. He knew it was wrong and went there anyway.
The league should also ban betting companies from being sponsors. Saints have a betting company as their main shirt sponsor. I hate it. I haven't bought a new top since they came on. I'd rather a plain one. They know it's wrong, because the offer kids ones with a different sponsor logo on the front.

Something needs to be done about the pervasive gambling influence in football.
 
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Even more, some of the PL club's owners made their fortunes off legalized betting. Looking at you, Brighton. But I exhausted myself barely scratching the surface of sporting hypocrisy in the Baseball thread, so I won't even get started here.

Toney surely ruled himself out of a move to a bigger club this summer. He would have improved Man Utd for sure, even if he was a Plan C signing. It'll be Brentford's gain if they can stay afloat for a few months without him next season.

The only consolation I can get out of a potential city treble is how joyless and grim it will be for everyone who is not a city fan, which is the vast majority of people out there. Hope we crush their dreams at Wembley, but that's just me dreaming here myself.

Coventry City vs Luton Town set to play for the final spot in the Prem.
 
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Now that City are in the CL final, what's the betting that the clubs hierarchy have immediately gone to the FA asking them if they can change the date of the FA cup so they have a chance of winning the CL because City have got the FA Cup on the 3rd of June and then the following week they have the CL final. City have a good squad but I doubt their main 11 will be ready to go for the CL final 7 days later, especially if Man United give them very hard game and injuries occur.
 
laptech said:
Now that City are in the CL final, what's the betting that the clubs hierarchy have immediately gone to the FA asking them if they can change the date of the FA cup so they have a chance of winning the CL because City have got the FA Cup on the 3rd of June and then the following week they have the CL final. City have a good squad but I doubt their main 11 will be ready to go for the CL final 7 days later, especially if Man United give them very hard game and injuries occur.
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And notwithstanding all of that (perfectly possible, if I know City), given the club still faces over 100 charges for having breached financial fair play rules, it would be hard for the FA to accede to their request.

For, City don't have much "credit" on such matters.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
And notwithstanding all of that (perfectly possible, if I know City), given the club still faces over 100 charges for having breached financial fair play rules, it would be hard for the FA to accede to their request.

For, City don't have much "credit" on such matters.
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If City do win the treble, it will certainly make it hard to impose penalties on City if they are found to have broken any financial fair play rules, especially if any of the broken rules allowed the club the finances to buy Haaland because clubs that faced Haaland would then be able to say that City fielded an eligible player and thus results should be voided. It could turn out to be a huge mess for City, the FA and the Premier league.
 
laptech said:
If City do win the treble, it will certainly make it hard to impose penalties on City if they are found to have broken any financial fair play rules, especially if any of the broken rules allowed the club the finances to buy Haaland because clubs that faced Haaland would then be able to say that City fielded an eligible player and thus results should be voided. It could turn out to be a huge mess for City, the FA and the Premier league.
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Well, if penalties are not imposed, it will make a complete mockery of any regulations or any attempt to impose regulations, and a bleak (if belated) recognition that might and money and power will enable you to win any contest.

If the FA do not impose serious penalties - for Toney, as many here have already pointed out, and although there can be no doubt of his culpability, was an easy target, from a small, if well run club - they will lose all remaining credibility.

City will have to be sanctioned, and the penalties will have to be sufficiently serious for this to hurt City.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Well, if penalties are not imposed, it will make a complete mockery of any regulations or any attempt to impose regulations, and a bleak (if belated) recognition that might and money and power will enable you to win any contest.

If the FA do not impose serious penalties - for Toney, as many here have already pointed out, and although there can be no doubt of his culpability, was an easy target, from a small, if well run club - they will lose all remaining credibility.

City will have to be sanctioned, and the penalties will have to be sufficiently serious for this to hurt City.
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The problem is will the FA, the Premier league and UEFA be prepared to be embarrassed if the team won them all is found guilty of financially cheating, thus in a sense cheating their way to win the competitions. If City won them all, would the FA strip them of the FA Cup, the Premier league the title and UEFA the CL trophy? Some how I cannot see that scenario playing out if City were to win them all and be found guilty later on of the 100 financial fair play charges. In my opinion all City would get is a fine (small change to the owners) and the possibility of a transfer embargo, nothing more.
 
laptech said:
The problem is will the FA, the Premier league and UEFA be prepared to be embarrassed if the team won them all is found guilty of financially cheating, thus in a sense cheating their way to win the competitions. If City won them all, would the FA strip them of the FA Cup, the Premier league the title and UEFA the CL trophy? Some how I cannot see that scenario playing out if City were to win them all and be found guilty later on of the 100 financial fair play charges. In my opinion all City would get is a fine (small change to the owners) and the possibility of a transfer embargo, nothing more.
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They are guilty of financial cheating; around 115 charges over a long spell of time is not small charge.

While I agree that it is unlikely that City would be stripped of titles or trophies (though, if they were, this would indeed send a message of serious intent, and is something I would love to see happen), rather than a fine that will simply serve as a slight slap on the wrist, City may be docked points, perhaps for the following season - so that they start the season with a significant handicap. This is a sanction that has been used to serious effect in the past.

Petrostate clubs need to be persuaded that the rules apply to them, also, even f they have the means to mitigate their effects.
 
Luton v Coventry should be a hotly-contested match, looking forward to that.
Silencio said:
The only consolation I can get out of a potential city treble is how joyless and grim it will be for everyone who is not a city fan, which is the vast majority of people out there.
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If a Man Utd and Liverpool fan can agree on that, it must be true.

At this point I think we are all well past the '...yes, but Man City play such beautiful football' excuses. With Haaland's arrival the football has become both more relentless but also more functional. They are less a 'beautiful' side now and one step closer to a pure winning machine like their fallen opponents Real.

This is also a good time to remind ourselves that Man City shouldn't even be here - they should have been tossed out of the CL and banned from it for financial doping. But the cowardly suits at CAS snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. So even their eventual triumph this season comes with an asterisk.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
Luton v Coventry should be a hotly-contested match, looking forward to that.

If a Man Utd and Liverpool fan can agree on that, it must be true.

At this point I think we are all well past the '...yes, but Man City play such beautiful football' excuses. With Haaland's arrival the football has become both more relentless but also more functional. They are less a 'beautiful' side now and one step closer to a pure winning machine like their fallen opponents Real.

This is also a good time to remind ourselves that Man City shouldn't even be here - they should have been tossed out of the CL and banned from it for financial doping. But the cowardly suits at CAS snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. So even their eventual triumph this season comes with an asterisk.
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The same will happen again if City are penalized for breaking fair play rules, they will go to CAS to get a lighter outcome.
 
laptech said:
The same will happen again if City are penalized for breaking fair play rules, they will go to CAS to get a lighter outcome.
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That happens pretty much every time a 'big' club goes to CAS about anything.

Rich people and corporations are really good at hiding money and financial transactions. The only institutions with the resources and authority to expose that are states. But these club owners have lots of friends in high places.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
That happens pretty much every time a 'big' club goes to CAS about anything.

Rich people and corporations are really good at hiding money and financial transactions. The only institutions with the resources and authority to expose that are states. But these club owners have lots of friends in high places.
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If the World Cup can be bought by rich billionaires, I have no doubt CAS decisions can be treated the same.
 
laptech said:
If the World Cup can be bought by rich billionaires, I have no doubt CAS decisions can be treated the same.
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It's worse than that. They don't even have to buy off the CAS - they just make the allegations so laborious to prosecute that the process runs out of steam before it gets anywhere. The billionaires are always several steps ahead of the authorities.
 
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City won't get significantly punished. I'm sure their agents are already going around 'greasing' the powers that be.

The fact that Qatar managed to host a WC should tell people that FIFA/UEFA cannot be taken seriously for any type of 'fair play' enforcement.

Ferran Soriano (Mr Deviant himself) going around saying other clubs have spent more than them is highly comical, and classic deflection.

Sure if you fudge the 'declared' numbers then yes you've spent less. But the real juice comes from the undeclared financial trickery that has clearly been employed over the last decade.
 
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daneoni said:
But the real juice comes from the undeclared financial trickery that has clearly been employed over the last decade.
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At the most elite level, the 'game' is no longer being played on the pitch. There are matches, but the trophies are won in the transfer market, boardroom, courtroom, halls of parliament, and the palaces of the mighty.

The game has changed so much in the last half century. In the 1960s or 1970s Haaland would be making a modest wage banging them in for Molde. Nobody would even know about him outside Norway apart from a few flashes at a World Cup.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
But that is no reason not to press charges.
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Oh, they should be prosecuted at every opportunity. My point is that the wealth of oligarchs likely insulates them from ever suffering the full consequences of their actions. And in the case of hedge funds, offshore-based consortia, and state-run proxy institutions- they aren't even people, so they can go up in smoke with even less of a trail leading to the real owners.
 
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