To be quite honest, I think that almost all of the neutrals were possibly rooting for Manchester United; I cannot imagine many people - other than actual City fans - desiring a City victory, superb team though they are.
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The 2022-2023 Football Thread
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Indeed. Not sure about Liverpool fans though. I think it would be unlikely for them to get behind United!
Well, it is entirely possible that they might have hoped - though this was, of course, impossible - that both teams would lose.
A sad loss for United. They are the only English league team to have done the treble and thus have a legacy to defend and they went down with a whimper. It was very obvious to see that the manager and players saw this as just a normal cup game and ignored the legacy that the treble needed to be defended. The players did not try to win tackles or put much effort into chasing the ball, they didn't even seem to want to win headers. There is going to be a lot of angry United fans out there today who witnessed a team not playing for the heritage of the club but playing for the money the club can give them.
United made it a nearly even contest, despite the massive and obvious gulf in talent. A couple of dumb mistakes and bad bounces plus a couple of moments of magic from the criminally underrated Gundogan made for the difference. In general they should hold their heads up high, the difference was in talent, execution, and concentration moreso than desire.
They need more talent to compete with city, but they do also need more strong personalities. Lisandro's desire and drive would have been very helpful out there today. Even Antony would have given more than, say, Sancho. Eriksen was also very poor, as he generally has been since coming back from injury. Rashford was also clearly not 100%.
It's a bit harsh to chalk up either city goal on De Gea, but I hope this was his last match for the club. A top class center forward and more quality in midfield are the highest priorities, but they really need to improve on the distribution from the back. Diogo Costa rumors have been hotting up again, he would be a good upgrade.
Inter are going to need a miracle to stop this treble from happening.
They need more talent to compete with city, but they do also need more strong personalities. Lisandro's desire and drive would have been very helpful out there today. Even Antony would have given more than, say, Sancho. Eriksen was also very poor, as he generally has been since coming back from injury. Rashford was also clearly not 100%.
It's a bit harsh to chalk up either city goal on De Gea, but I hope this was his last match for the club. A top class center forward and more quality in midfield are the highest priorities, but they really need to improve on the distribution from the back. Diogo Costa rumors have been hotting up again, he would be a good upgrade.
Inter are going to need a miracle to stop this treble from happening.
Interesting post, and I'm largely in agreement with you.
When I read the names that each manager had chosen to start the game on each of the respective teams, the gulf in class between them was all too evident - and that was the First XI, not the names on the bench.
United did well to make it a contest, but, unfortunately, they are not as good - both re some of the individual players, and as a team, - as are City.
De Gea has done well for United, but, I think it is clear that he is no longer at his best, and I also think that the evolution of the tactics of the game - such as passing out from the rear, and playing not just as (an excellent) goal-keeper - which has its own specific skills - but as general commanding, marshalling and superintending the defence as well as being able to play - with your feet - as an extra defender when needed - have served to render him increasingly obsolete at the top level of the game.
You must be a United fan or have them as one of your favourites because United did not make it an even contest, City made it an even contest by not even getting out of 4th gear. Did you watch the game? United were atrocious in midfield and attack, especially in attack. Also all of the players were not trying hard enough. They should have put their live on the line for this game but they went out with a whimper. They did not harass the City players at all, they did not go in for the tackles, they shy'd away. They did not push or barge the City players. To all watching United was playing a friendly type game, letting the other team have it easy. United should have pushed and harassed City so they went into 1st gear, to really push City to want to win the cup but United capitulated from the get go.
As for De Gea, did you see the camera footage from the rear of the goal? De Gea had ever opportunity to dive for that ball but he didn't. You can see from his positioning and the height of the man that he could have got to the ball if he tried but he just stood their and watched the ball go in. THAT is why United lost because the players did not try hard enough.
Maybe that ridiculous yellow card given to AWB played a part in United's players not being aggressive enough? It definitely affected him.
You have to close city down fast, but they can easily punish over-aggressive defending. I thought United mostly struck a good balance. There were a few players whose intensity was not up to the job: Victor Lindelof (beaten to the header that led to the first goal), Jadon Sancho (way too timid and uncertain), and Christian Eriksen (a shadow of the player he was before he got taken out by Andy Carroll), and De Gea (awful distribution, could've reacted quicker to stop the second goal, but even vintage Buffon only has about a 10% chance of keeping that first one out, IMO).
United were atrocious at the Etihad and shipped 6 goals that day. They were better today, but nowhere near good enough to win.
You have to close city down fast, but they can easily punish over-aggressive defending. I thought United mostly struck a good balance. There were a few players whose intensity was not up to the job: Victor Lindelof (beaten to the header that led to the first goal), Jadon Sancho (way too timid and uncertain), and Christian Eriksen (a shadow of the player he was before he got taken out by Andy Carroll), and De Gea (awful distribution, could've reacted quicker to stop the second goal, but even vintage Buffon only has about a 10% chance of keeping that first one out, IMO).
United were atrocious at the Etihad and shipped 6 goals that day. They were better today, but nowhere near good enough to win.
I'm happy for Rúben, Ederson and Bernardo
Fair enough, City are an excellent team, coached by a genuinely gifted and visionary manager, but one who has been gifted with bottomless resources with which to construct and craft his teams.
However, today, - while I hold no brief for Manchester United - I would have supported any team that had lined out against City.
If you watch from far enough both teams aren't that different, both used to solve anything with infinite resources.
Currently City is of course provided with even bottomless pockets but as I said from a distance not that different.
If I had to choose a English team I have a soft spot for Liverpool but they weren't playing and I'm a great fan of Bernardo, as a player and even as a sports personality.
Currently City is of course provided with even bottomless pockets but as I said from a distance not that different.
If I had to choose a English team I have a soft spot for Liverpool but they weren't playing and I'm a great fan of Bernardo, as a player and even as a sports personality.
Exactly United were too timid. When you have such an important game on the line, any decent coach would tell their players to make their presence felt, give the occasional nudge and push, go in for the tackle, make the opposition know you are there and that they are in for a fight. United have the legacy of being the only English club to win the treble (League, FA Cup and CL) and when you talk to United fans it is something that is extremely important to them, to protect that legacy and they wanted to see their team defend that legacy but the team did anything but. A huge number of United fan's will tell you, they felt the players were playing for money (their wages) rather than the badge on their shirt. There would have been no complaints if United had given their all and lost but they didn't, they were timid and lacklustre and paid the price. Yes the gulf in class of players was abundant but that still does not excuse United for not giving it their all.
Who cares about a bit of silverware when your a millionaire right?
It is more than the bottomless resources (and the 115 charges against City and the source of those resources both bother me).
Rather, it is the fact that, firstly, that City have an excellent manager (yes, one who has always been exceptionally well supported financially by who ever owns the clubs where he has worked as manager) who is able to coach players so that they develop and grow and improve when he coaches them (Klopp also has this capacity whereby players are better for having worked with him, and Arteta shows signs of being able to do this, as well).
Secondly, in each individual position, City have excellent players, - in fact, some outstanding players - and have an excellent bench as well. Man for man, in almost every position, they were better footballers as individual players today than were United's players.
And thirdly, while Manchester United have some excellent individual players, they have yet to work well coherently as a team. Their team is very much a work in progress.
This is not the case with City, who have excellent players - there is hardly a weak link in the entire team - who also play exceptionally well together as a team; the sum of the whole far exceeds the already extraordinarily gifted individual parts.
Fair enough.
On Bernardo Silva, yes, agree completely; a superb player.
With City winning the FA Cup and thus going for the treble, it is going to be increasingly difficult for the Premier League to dispense justice if City are found to be guilty of the many charges placed against them. Any fine would be meaningless due to the extreme wealth of the clubs owners so would the Premier league have the guts to strip City of their title or titles if they are found guilty?
They won’t strip them of titles. A points deduction in the current season after the investigation concludes would be favourable. However after all the appeals etc, that will be around 2075!
Let me be the devil’s advocate for a minute here: should the fans and players be punished for their executives’ wrongdoings? (Or their fans’ actions, for that matter)
Wouldn’t it be possible to come up with different punishments? For example, they won’t be allowed to sign new players for a number of seasons, or a fine that is a percentage of the club’s value or gross income? Or maybe force them to pay, as a fine, that percentage plus their share of the TV rights and the money received for winning titles?
Wouldn’t it be possible to come up with different punishments? For example, they won’t be allowed to sign new players for a number of seasons, or a fine that is a percentage of the club’s value or gross income? Or maybe force them to pay, as a fine, that percentage plus their share of the TV rights and the money received for winning titles?
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No, it will not be difficult to dispense justice if City are found guilty (and, 115 charges of breaching FFP rules are no small amount of charges to face).
The response does not have to be confined to a binary - "difficult to deal with because they are so powerful", or, stripping them of their titles (which I don't see happening, and retrospective justice tends to be difficult to justify) and a fine, irrespective of size, which will have the financial effect of a gentle tap on the wrist, as City are so wealthy as to be able to shrug off such a punishment.
Rather, the obvious solution would be a penalty that hurts, such as a points deduction.
If City were to be docked 20 or 25 points for the coming season, that might
There is a third answer: Deduct points.
Deduct a sufficient number of points for this to have an effect on City for the coming season; perhaps 20, or 25 points.
And a fourth answer: Prohibit them from engaging in the transfer market for a full year/season; Chelsea had a transfer ban imposed on them a few years ago (which may, perhaps, partly explain some of their incontinent transfer patterns this past season).
Exactly.
This is the obvious solution, a sufficiently large points deduction (20, 25, perhaps even 30) that would serve to - if not teach a lesson - at the very least, would have an effect on their capacity to be able to challenge for the title.
Yes, we can expect City to drag things out, unfortunately.
Yes.
And, to the second question, most certainly, yes.
Some good ideas, here.
You either punish the wrongdoer fans or the other teams fans indirectly by not having a fair playing field.
Fans are always punished the moment someone misbehaves.
Not being allowed to sign is some punishment (but it needs to be several years) but fines will just make them laugh.
Of course I don't know the extent of the infractions they're being investigated for, but if you start to impose fines that are percentages of your club's worth (around 4 billion £, according to Forbes), and then you add TV rights and prize money to those fines, along with one or more seasons without new signings, then even a club as rich as City will suffer.
Obviously, a fine as ridiculous as the one UEFA imposed on PSG (65 million €, if I'm not mistaken) would make City's owners laugh.
If if you strip them of their titles you're not leveling the playing field, it looks like vengeance to me, those trophies are still gone, the other teams won't be playing those seasons again.
I disagree. Fans and players are not at fault here, unless overt corruption, match-fixing or doping is discovered I don't think fans and players should pay the price by having a club stripped of their titles, I don't like punishments with retroactive effect, or punishments that hit indiscriminately, even those who didn't do anything wrong.
If City, because they didn't follow the financial rules did have a unfair advantage, then they should be punished starting next season, huge fines - I'm talking hundreds of millions - and multiple seasons without signings, that even applies to their under 23 team, or B squad, the "Primavera" team as we call it in Italy. (I'm guessing they have one).
Punish the executives, hit the club hard both financially and technically, heck, I don't know if it's feasible but you could even force them to hand the money from stadium tickets and season tickets.
To my mind, (if found guilty) they should suffer a massive points deduction/reduction, and severe financial penalties (such as a prohibition of operating in the transfer market for a year or two, and and serious - stratospheric - fines).
However, firstly, I don't think that they will be stripped of their title, - I'm not keen on retroactive penalties - and nowhere have I suggested that this course of action should be entertained, or taken.
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