Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
See the thing is it’s a World Cup and it doesn’t belong to Europeans. Countries shouldn’t be excluded from hosting it because they have different customs to Europeans.
......

No, but they shouldn't impose their customs on Europeans, especially if not doing so was a condition of their being awarded the right to host and hold the World Cup.

And, if their customs were of such importance, ths should have been made clear when the decision to award the World Cup was made, as to undertake certain commitments - and then renege on this two days before the competition is scheduled to start - is a clear demonstration of the most egregious and outrageous bad faith.

What else will they go back on?

What is their word worth?

This goes beyond customs and into the world of contracts.

If I were a sponsor, I'd pull the plug, and sue.

I personally don’t believe things like world cups and Olympics should be considered sports washing they’re owned by the people of the world and celebrated in the manners of the people of the world.
What else can it be considered as but sports washing, and a flagrant - and a contemptuous display of what we now refer to as "soft power"?

Qatar should never have been awarded the World Cup, and to attempt to separate the competition from the sordid and tawdry socio-economic and political background is to mistake the nature of this World Cup.

@Lord Blackadder has pointed out - correctly - that this action is deliberately giving two fingers of clear contempt to the west; it is, and the conflict in Ukraine has given Qatar (home to the world's largest reserves of gas) far greater influence and power than it could have imagined this time last year, when concerns were confined to the appalling number of deaths among those constructing the stadia in atrocious conditions.

However, this is not just about showing contempt for the west: These actions are also an expression of two fingers to Saudi-Arabia, with which Qatar has - and had - been in conflict, mostly though proxies in the Horn of Africa and elsewhere.

I do think everyone should be welcome and different groups should be able to visit free of any fear of persecution.

Well, yes.

One should hope so, otherwise gays (and indeed, women, not to mention reporters) may find that merely showing up may render them liable to arrest.

I also don’t think the stadiums etc should be built without virtual slave labour etc.

Well, yes.

You mean that slave labour should not be used when building a football stadium?

Slave labour and the sort of grotesque exploitation - informed by a corrosive contempt - whereby the construction works for this competition cost the lives of thousands of ill-treated and grotesquely exploited workers - is really nothing to celebrate and has been deservedly condemned (though not by FIFA, who really have shown how craven, corrupt and morally rotten they actually are).

Beer though is a total non issue in my opinion. It’s only an issue for me because they decided to ban it 48 hours in advance.
There are two issues here:

One is that beer (and other alcohol) should be available - for those who wish to consume it - at an international footballing festival such as the World Cup.

The majority of those who will attend theese matches are not practising Muslims, and that, too, should be acknowledged by the hosts.

Secondly, Qatar had clearly committed - when their bid was accepted - to accommodating cultural differences (such as permitting the sale and consumption of alcohol at matches) and for them to renege on this - two days before the competition starts - is a very public, and egregious example of bad faith, and reneging on their word.

It also harms sponsors - and I write this as someone who thinks that Budweiser is actually a perfectly dreadful beer in terms of quality
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: decafjava
No, but they shouldn't impose their customs on Europeans, especially if not doing so was a condition of their being awarded the right to host and hold the World Cup.
They’re not imposing their customs you are under no requirement to visit Qatar. If you visit a Muslim country following a simple rule like refraining from drinking in public is not a hardship.

and then renege on this two days before the competition is scheduled to start

I agree they’ve handled it terribly and it shouldn’t have happened like this.

What else can it be considered as but sports washing, and a flagrant - and a contemptuous display of what we now refer to as "soft power"?

Is it a World Cup or a friends of America cup? If the latter stop pretending these competitions are for the world.

Slave labour and the sort of grotesque exploitation - informed by a corrosive contempt - whereby the construction works for this competition cost the lives of thousands of ill-treated and grotesquely exploited workers - is really nothing to celebrate and has been deservedly condemned (though not by FIFA, who really have shown how craven, corrupt and morally rotten they actually are).

Totally agree.

One is that beer (and other alcohol) should be available - for those who wish to consume it - at an international footballing festival such as the World Cup.

The majority of those who will attend theese matches are not practising Muslims, and that, too, should be acknowledged by the hosts.

Alcohol is not a human right people will be fine. I enjoyed 8 hours drinking at the cricket yesterday but I would still have had a great time without it.
 
They’re not imposing their customs you are under no requirement to visit Qatar. If you visit a Muslim country following a simple rule like refraining from drinking in public is not a hardship.
Yes, they are imposing their customs, - and I have worked, in a professional capacity, in several Muslim countries, and am more than aware of how they choose to interpret and implement their respective cultures (and - by the way - Muslim countries are not a monolith) - but they should have made it clear that they intended to do exactly this when they first made their bid to host the World Cup.

To have done otherwise is to have made their bid - quite deliberately - in bad faith.

Now, I would argue that thier bid would never have been accepted in the first place, had this stance been made clear from the outset.

Instead, at the time, they made a commitment to serve alcohol at matches and in stadia, - a commitment that was repeated in all of the published literature until two days ago - and have reneged on that.

Fans, and sponsors, are entitled to feel very aggrieved about this.

And fans, and sponsors, are quite entitled to ask what else is Qatar about to break their word on?
 
Yes, they are imposing their customs, - and I have worked, in a professional capacity, in several Muslim countries, and am more than aware of how they choose to interpret and implement their respective cultures (and - by the way - Muslim countries are not a monolith) - but they should have made it clear that they intended to do exactly this when they first made their bid to host the World Cup.

To have done otherwise is to have made their bid - quite deliberately - in bad faith.

Now, I would argue that thier bid would never have been accepted in the first place, had this stance been made clear from the outset.

Instead, at the time, they made a commitment to serve alcohol at matches and in stadia, - a commitment that was repeated in all of the published literature until two days ago - and have reneged on that.

Fans, and sponsors, are entitled to feel very aggrieved about this.

And fans, and sponsors, are quite entitled to ask what else is Qatar about to break their word on?

Again for about the 15th time I’m not disagreeing about the way they have gone about this. Just that it shouldn’t be a prerequisite in the first place.
 
Again for about the 15th time I’m not disagreeing about the way they have gone about this. Just that it shouldn’t be a prerequisite in the first place.
Whyever not?

They would never have been awarded the World Cup in the first place, - and rightly so - if they had made clear that their (interpretation of, and implementation of, their) culture prohibited the public sale and consumption of alcohol.
 
Whyever not?

They would never have been awarded the World Cup in the first place, - and rightly so - if they had made clear that their (interpretation of, and implementation of, their) culture prohibited the public sale and consumption of alcohol.

So then it’s not a World Cup it’s western or friends of America cup.
Again consuming alcohol at a sporting event is not a human right.
 
I can't believe that people are banging on about this no alcohol in the stadia thing, as though that's the worst thing about a country where people are imprisoned and even murdered for being gay....
 
  • Like
Reactions: decafjava
I can't believe that people are banging on about this no alcohol in the stadia thing, as though that's the worst thing about a country where people are imprisoned and even murdered for being gay....

No argument whatsoever re the atrocious treatment of migrant workers, the countless - and gross violations of human rights, the appalling treatment of gays (and women).

My own personal view is that Qatar should never have been awarded the right to stage and host the World Cup.

However, we - or, in my case, I - am "banging on" about the availability of alcohol mainly because of the outrageous way in which Qatar reneged on their promise (made when they submitted their bid) to accommodate those who attended matches with the provision of alcohol.

Had they made clear their wish to prohibit the sale (and availability) of alcohol when they originally submitted their bid, while (personally) I would have disliked it, but, nevertheless, I would have accepted this as part of their package (and would have considered it a valid, or legitimate, reason to reject their bid, but that is a separate argument).

The point is that they reneged on their word, and did so - publicly, so as to give a proverbial "two fingers" to the western world - and did so just before the World Cup was due to commence; this will have an impact on fans, (obviously) and - even more obviously, on sponsors.

And, this - inevitably - also brings questions to the fore about whether Qatar will keep their word on other matters, and whether they can be relied upon as a reliable partner to do so.

In legal terms, I would imagine that there is a clear case for the sponsors to be able to sue on the grounds of breach of contract.
So then it’s not a World Cup it’s western or friends of America cup.
Again consuming alcohol at a sporting event is not a human right.
Firstly, I'm European, not American.

Secondly, to be quite candid, "America" (by which one usually means the US, for, of course, several of the countries from the continent of South America are clearly a very different matter when discussing global success when playing soccer), is not considered to be - or taken seriously as - a soccer power.

Historically, Europe and South America were - and still are - the "global power centres" where football is concerned.
 
Last edited:
I can't believe that people are banging on about this no alcohol in the stadia thing, as though that's the worst thing about a country where people are imprisoned and even murdered for being gay....
It’s not about the beer. Forget the beer. Stop thinking about the beer. Erase ‘alcohol’ from this conversation.


It’s got everything to do with the incident nakedly reinforcing all of our suspicions that Qatar have been acting in bad faith all alaong.

This is not about ‘cultural differences’ or the West imposing values on Qatar. It’s about Qatar corruptly bribing their way into a World Cup and lying to everyone about nearly every aspect of the tournament. They signed up to the affair and have broken their word.

This is not defensible by any metric.
 
It’s got everything to do with the incident nakedly reinforcing all of our suspicions that Qatar have been acting in bad faith all alaong.
But this was known before and during the bribery, sorry, bidding process. So it shouldn't come as a shock that they are a shower of bastards. FIFA are as complicit in this as much as Qatar. The whole shebang is mired in corruption and deceit. Scum, the lot of them. That includes all the sponsors too; they all know what Qatar is really about, so no sympathy for them either. Ditto the BBC and all broadcasters choosing to participate in this sportswash.
 
It’s not about the beer. Forget the beer. Stop thinking about the beer. Erase ‘alcohol’ from this conversation.


It’s got everything to do with the incident nakedly reinforcing all of our suspicions that Qatar have been acting in bad faith all alaong.

This is not about ‘cultural differences’ or the West imposing values on Qatar. It’s about Qatar corruptly bribing their way into a World Cup and lying to everyone about nearly every aspect of the tournament. They signed up to the affair and have broken their word.

This is not defensible by any metric.
It is about the beer, the human rights violations, the corruption... etc etc

**** this WC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
Well, normally, usually, in any competition, I will support an underdog (as long as "my" team - the team which I support - is not playing).

Not now.

In practice, what this means is that I hope Qatar get stuffed, are not just defeated, but are absolutely destroyed, are utterly humiliated, on the football pitch in every single game that they play.

Anyway, in the opening game, at the moment, Ecuador, playing well within themsleves, and are leading Qatar by two goals to nil.

Perhaps, money cannot buy everything after all.
 
Well, normally, usually, in any competition, I will support an underdog (as long as "my" team - the team which I support - is not playing).

Not now.

Anyway, this means that I hope Qatar get stuffed, are not just defeated, but are absolutely destroyed, are utterly humiliated, on the football pitch in every single game that they play.

Anyway, in the opening game, at the moment, Ecuador, playing well within themsleves, and are leading Qatar by two goals to nil.

Perhaps, money cannot buy everything after all.
Cheers! Well put, well spoken, have a beer*!

*Just kidding! You can't have a beer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
I can allow for the BBC and other news outlet needing to cover a World Cup tournament regardless of the controversy, they're a broadcasting/journalism corporation. On paper anyway.

David Beckham taking a cool £10m to promote the Qatar WC however, that raises my eyebrows...albeit not particularly surprised. That lavish/opulent lifestyle needs replenishing after all . Ditto for Robbie Williams, J Balvin, Black Eyed Peas etc.

But ultimately its not my place to tell people how to feel or act. They can do their own research and act (or not) accordingly

The disconcerting thing going forward is that Qatar will remain prominent on the global stage, because a large portion of the globe will now turn to them for oil & gas thanks to the Putin fiasco.

Going back to football, good to see Enner Valencia still thriving. Hopefully his injury isn't serious.
 
Last edited:
I can allow for the BBC and other news outlet needing to cover a World Cup tournament regardless of the controversy, they're a broadcasting/journalism corporation. On paper anyway.

David Beckham taking a cool £10m to promote the Qatar WC however, that raises my eyebrows...albeit not particularly surprised. That lavish/opulent lifestyle needs replenishing after all . Ditto for Robbie Williams, J Balvin, Black Eyed Peas etc.

But ultimately its not my place to tell people how to feel or act. They can do their own research and act (or not) accordingly

The disconcerting thing going forward is that Qatar will remain prominent on the global stage, because a large portion of the globe will now turn to them for oil thanks to the Putin fiasco.

Going back to football, good to see Enner Valencia still thriving. Hopefully his injury isn't serious.
Actually, Qatar - while it does have oil reserves - derives most of its power (and wealth) from the export of gas, a natural resource it has in abundance, and one which it plans to develop further.

A dispute with Saudi-Arabia meant that Qatar quit OPEC in 2019, opting to pursue an independent energy policy, one with a focus on gas.

Anyway, I am delighted that Qatar were defeated in their opening match in front of a home crowd.
 
Re-Qatar, here is a topical video of what they did once they were awarded the WC. You can skip the early dramatics to the real stuff which starts around the 14min mark

Of course Qatar isn't the first to exploit humans, others have done far worse. But you know...two wrongs don't make a right and all that...
 
Last edited:
Re-Qatar, here is a topical video of what they did once they were awarded the WC. You can to skip the dramatics to the real stuff which starts around the 14min mark

Of course Qatar isn't the first to exploit humans, others have done far worse. But you know...two wrongs don't make a right and all that...
Thanks for sharing this; I watched the video.

Harrowing and heart-breaking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alphazoid
I was so desperate for some football that had nothing to do with Qatar that I sat through the entirety of Exeter 0-2 Ipswitch. 🤣 Desperate times & etc.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that 😂.

It was one of my favourite performances of the season. We kept Exeter who have been scoring for fun recently at arms length and never really gave them a chance. A proper professional performance.

Its really looking like its going to be 2 from 3 between us, Plymouth & Sheffield Wednesday. My gut feeling is it will be us and Sheffield Wednesday battling for the title come the end of the season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lord Blackadder
But this was known before and during the bribery, sorry, bidding process. So it shouldn't come as a shock that they are a shower of bastards. FIFA are as complicit in this as much as Qatar. The whole shebang is mired in corruption and deceit. Scum, the lot of them. That includes all the sponsors too; they all know what Qatar is really about, so no sympathy for them either. Ditto the BBC and all broadcasters choosing to participate in this sportswash.
Yes. It may not come as a shock, but it is still shocking behavior.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
Errrrrrm, got a link for that?
Sorry I misread the headline. Looking to being the important missing word!
6BF37663-B2CE-4B75-B3A0-08BA92703180.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.