England fought until the end, and scored 1, but Spain came back again.
Congrats Spain, they deserved it.
2 - 1 to Spain ⚽
Congrats Spain, they deserved it.
2 - 1 to Spain ⚽
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The 2023-2024 Football Thread
- Thread starter Scepticalscribe
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Spain were the best team of the tournament and deserved to win.
England should be proud for getting as far as they did. In the end it could have gone our way. But it just wasn’t our night.
England should be proud for getting as far as they did. In the end it could have gone our way. But it just wasn’t our night.
Spain can be a proud footballing nation even more so now because their womens team are the womens World Cup champions and the men are now the Euro Champions. Will be interesting to see if the womens team can become the 2025 womens Euro champions.
Predictable ending, and a reminder of why Southgate gets criticised. Starts Kane and Foden again, despite both basically doing nothing all tournament. Then forced to rely on Kyle Walker who is looking past it with each game because he pissed of Ben White.
No width, cautious and set up not to lose instead of winning. Everything predictably through the middle and easy for Spain to defend against. Carvajal just chilling with no one running at him.
2-1 down with 30 odd mins left he only brings on Palmer, then Toney with 10mins left. Before Spain scored he was planning to bring Gallagher and Tripper on which says it all.
Spain were the better side and deserved to win but England again the architects of their own downfall.
The 58yrs of embarrassment continues...
No width, cautious and set up not to lose instead of winning. Everything predictably through the middle and easy for Spain to defend against. Carvajal just chilling with no one running at him.
2-1 down with 30 odd mins left he only brings on Palmer, then Toney with 10mins left. Before Spain scored he was planning to bring Gallagher and Tripper on which says it all.
Spain were the better side and deserved to win but England again the architects of their own downfall.
The 58yrs of embarrassment continues...
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Well said and agreed.
Agreed.
Again, agreed.
This argument of "England are/were the architects of their own downfall" overlooks - or fails to take into account - that Spain were the better team.
It is not an embarrassment to make the final of an international tournament - a competitive international tournament - twice.
Is this a list of most championships?
I really enjoyed last night's match. It was a bit odd as I went to a nearly empty outdoor summer terrace by the Rhone river and watched on my phone while enjoying a pint of local red ale. Yes, it was empty becasue there was no screen in the place. The local Geneva authorities (not in other parts of Switzerland) bizarrely banned bars, restaurants etc. outside of the fan zone from broadcasting Euro matches until the semi-finals. No way was I going to the fan zone yesterday and as we finally have decent weather I wasn't going to watch at home. Afterwards especially in the town centre we had noisy celebrations form the Iberic and Latin communities.
The thing that annoys England fan's terribly is that they know they have the players that can win tournaments but they need to be playing in the correct positions and be the right player in that position. Time and time again ex-England players now pundits kept saying that Southgate cannot play Kane with the likes of Foden and Bellingham because it does not suit Kane's style of play which is why they kept saying Ollie Watkins should be the one starting because he fits in to the style of play of Foden and Bellingham. Trent-Arnold was excellent in the Euro qualifiers but come the Euro's he gets played out of position, is rubbish and does not play again.
Also a thing to note, how many people does it take all saying the same thing before it becomes a point of note or just a rambling of fans? During the group stage, if you looked at fan forums, sport sites write in's, other sports sites/blogs on social media, there looked to be thousands upon thousands of England fans all saying the same thing, drop Foden and Kane to the bench and start Watkins and Palmer because every time those two came on as subs it seemed to have gelled the team close together. Even ex-England players were saying the same thing. Is every one of them wrong and Southgate being the only one that is right? because he kept playing Foden and Kane and the games were dire until Watkins and Palmer kept being introduced.
Surely there becomes a point when armchair fans and ex-England players are right and the England manager is wrong.
Also a thing to note, how many people does it take all saying the same thing before it becomes a point of note or just a rambling of fans? During the group stage, if you looked at fan forums, sport sites write in's, other sports sites/blogs on social media, there looked to be thousands upon thousands of England fans all saying the same thing, drop Foden and Kane to the bench and start Watkins and Palmer because every time those two came on as subs it seemed to have gelled the team close together. Even ex-England players were saying the same thing. Is every one of them wrong and Southgate being the only one that is right? because he kept playing Foden and Kane and the games were dire until Watkins and Palmer kept being introduced.
Surely there becomes a point when armchair fans and ex-England players are right and the England manager is wrong.
Belgium is the classic case that FIFA's world rankings mean nothing. For a number of years Belgium topped FIFA's world rankings as being the best football team in the world even though Belgium had not won any major competition.
Looking back at England, ex-Liverpool manager Klopp is available. He would be the perfect replacement for Southgate as he knows English football and European style football (Champions league) very well.
Looking back at England, ex-Liverpool manager Klopp is available. He would be the perfect replacement for Southgate as he knows English football and European style football (Champions league) very well.
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I dunno
Losing one final...unlucky
Losing a semi-final...unfortunate
Losing two finals...pattern/habit
Spain playing Cucurella instead of Grimaldo is an example of using the right players, with the right level of performance, for the right system.
Grimaldo is head and shoulders above Cucurella as a defender, but he is benched for most of Spain's campaign.
Because Cucu offers more going forward, has a great partnership with Williams, and provides the assist for the winning goal.
Southgate plays players based on name and reputation. Then shoe-horns them into a system that doesn't play to their strengths thus relying on moments of magic which won't always come.
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England have failed in the past not due to bad teams or bad managers but due to bad ref decisions going against them or due to bad penalties. World Cup 1986, England had one of the best teams going into the tournament and could have gone all the way if it hadn't have been for the 'Hand of God' by Maradona. World Cup 1990, England get to the semis where they face a very good Germany team who eventually beat them on penalties. World Cup 1998 England came up against a very good Argentina team who beat them in the quarter final. World Cup 2002, England come up against a very good Brazil team who beat them in the quart finals who then went on to win the tournament.
What am trying to show is that England loosing in the past has not been down to bad managers or bad players, it is just that they have come up against better teams than them. The year things changed for Southgate was the Euro 2020 final where the team backed off from being 1-0 very early on in the game only for Italy to score in the second half. Southgate was heavily criticized for not continuing to go on the front foot and keep on attacking Italy but instead he allowed the team to back off, to hold onto the lead but it did not work and Ital equalized. In the 2022 World cup against France in the quarter finals, France score first, England score from a penalty and then they sit back and try to hold off for a draw. Southgate did the same again in the game against Spain, they level the match then hold back for the draw which allowed Spain to constantly attack them. 3 games all of the same style of play, score to equalize and then sit back and hold off for a draw so it goes to extra time. You cannot blame fans for asking serious questions of Southgate when they know the team should have won those 3 games if it hadn't of been for Southgate's managerial decisions, decisions he has made time and time again resulting in England losing.
What am trying to show is that England loosing in the past has not been down to bad managers or bad players, it is just that they have come up against better teams than them. The year things changed for Southgate was the Euro 2020 final where the team backed off from being 1-0 very early on in the game only for Italy to score in the second half. Southgate was heavily criticized for not continuing to go on the front foot and keep on attacking Italy but instead he allowed the team to back off, to hold onto the lead but it did not work and Ital equalized. In the 2022 World cup against France in the quarter finals, France score first, England score from a penalty and then they sit back and try to hold off for a draw. Southgate did the same again in the game against Spain, they level the match then hold back for the draw which allowed Spain to constantly attack them. 3 games all of the same style of play, score to equalize and then sit back and hold off for a draw so it goes to extra time. You cannot blame fans for asking serious questions of Southgate when they know the team should have won those 3 games if it hadn't of been for Southgate's managerial decisions, decisions he has made time and time again resulting in England losing.
He has been England's 'most successful' manager in recent history. And i'm actually grateful for what he's done for England in tourney football. In terms of taking us beyond groups/QF mediocrity.
But he also played with the handbrake on too often. And used his squad inefficiently. I don't blame his stubbornness, after all his methods got him to 2 finals and a semi final. But as the great Serena Williams said "You never play safe to win"
Someone made a notable point that i kinda agree with. If Southgate was given the Spanish quad, and Fuente was given England's, Spain probably don't win the Euros.
Meanwhile, UEFA released their team of the tournament and i'm convinced they're trolling. Probably felt obliged to include an Eng player since we made the final. But they then pick arguably the worst one.
Guehi was the best defender by a country mile.
But he also played with the handbrake on too often. And used his squad inefficiently. I don't blame his stubbornness, after all his methods got him to 2 finals and a semi final. But as the great Serena Williams said "You never play safe to win"
Someone made a notable point that i kinda agree with. If Southgate was given the Spanish quad, and Fuente was given England's, Spain probably don't win the Euros.
Meanwhile, UEFA released their team of the tournament and i'm convinced they're trolling. Probably felt obliged to include an Eng player since we made the final. But they then pick arguably the worst one.
Guehi was the best defender by a country mile.
Regarding Walker in the team of the tournament my initial reaction was what the hell!!! but then when I put my brain in gear I realized the players being picked were the ones who were the best in THAT position throughout the tournament and in my opinion they got it spot on because Walker was the best RB the whole tournament.
My choices for new England manager would be:
1: Pep Guardiola (his contract expires in 2025) (use interim manager till then)
2: Jurgen Klopp
3: Mauricio Pochettino
4: Eddie Howe (he is on a long contract till 2027, be very expensive to pry him away from Newcastle, Newcastle would make the FA pay dearly)
Reading the BBC's live reporting about Southgate resigning, someone texted in the following about the England youth teams and their results:
2023 England - UEFA U21 European Champions (manager Lee Carsley)
2022 England - UEFA U19 European Champions (manager Will Antwi)
2017 England - FIFA U20 World Cup Champions (Ben Futcher, interim manager)
2017 England - FIFA U17 World Cup Champions (manager Greg Lincoln)
2014 England - UEFA U17 European Champions (manager Greg Lincoln)
and as such was mentioned, why is it the England managers at youth team level can win their respective FIFA and UEFA tournaments but not the senior men's team. They all play at their respective levels but yet the senior men are unable to replicate what the youth's teams can do.
It must be noted that England's 2023 UEFA U21 Euro win was against Spain, beating Spain 1-0 in the final. England and Spain's senior men meet in the 2024 UEFA Euro final and England lose 2-1. Therefore why is it the U21's were able to do against Spain what their senior squad was unable to do. Was it the players, was it the manager, was the moon/sun in wrong alignment?
2023 England - UEFA U21 European Champions (manager Lee Carsley)
2022 England - UEFA U19 European Champions (manager Will Antwi)
2017 England - FIFA U20 World Cup Champions (Ben Futcher, interim manager)
2017 England - FIFA U17 World Cup Champions (manager Greg Lincoln)
2014 England - UEFA U17 European Champions (manager Greg Lincoln)
and as such was mentioned, why is it the England managers at youth team level can win their respective FIFA and UEFA tournaments but not the senior men's team. They all play at their respective levels but yet the senior men are unable to replicate what the youth's teams can do.
It must be noted that England's 2023 UEFA U21 Euro win was against Spain, beating Spain 1-0 in the final. England and Spain's senior men meet in the 2024 UEFA Euro final and England lose 2-1. Therefore why is it the U21's were able to do against Spain what their senior squad was unable to do. Was it the players, was it the manager, was the moon/sun in wrong alignment?
Fair enough
Don't think Klopp will manage in England or England itself
Poch might but i'd be surprised. He also seems like he’s done with Eng
Not sure Pep will want to manage a national team
Tuchel is a possibility but his record of fallout with players means it’ll probably be a trainwreck
Howe like you mentioned will be hard to pry from Newcastle.
The general sentiment remains Englishman for England
Who ever it is it needs to be someone who has managed in the premier league at the top level and the only person available now who ticks all those boxes is Poch.
As for Klopp, he could use England as a international stepping stone towards Germany. Get international experience with England, stay with the team for one world cup and a Euros and then move on to Germany.
If it does have to be an Englishman then it has to be Eddie Howe BUT Newcastle will not let him go easily. I can not remember the person's name but look at how extremely difficult they made it not only for their own staff member but also Manu United who wanted the person. Newcastle said £20 million in compensation or your not having him till his contract with the club expires. United say no way to the ridiculous compensation amount so what do Newcastle do, they put their staff member on 'gardening' leave, effectively shutting him out of Newcastle but in the same process making sure Man United cannot have him early.
If Newcastle played that such hardball with United, how much hardball are they going to do with the FA considering Howe has a contract with the club until 2027. If Newcastle wanted £20 million for a backroom staff member, how much do you think they going to ask for Howe? easily £50 to £100 million. Question is, playing hardball with a rival league club is acceptable to many fans but when it comes to your country now that is something totally different. How would England fans react if the FA want Howe but Newcastle play extreme hardball just like they did with United, not very well in my opinion. There would be lot of hate towards Newcastle in my opinion.
You can say what you want 😆Dare i say England for the Euros
But both Spain and Germany will most likely kick the brits asses.
Sweden will get back too, and it might be good with more games for us, to tighten the team more and bring out more of the players when they get extra time together.