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Vector

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2002
835
1
Originally posted by Centris 650

The SLAM-IT-HOME
2) Redesigning the WHOLE powermac line (casing and all) while only the "Faster", "Fastest" and "Ultimate" machines have the 970 while the "Fast" machine has a beefed up G4. 6 months or so (maybe even less?) a powerbook 970 machine with a 970 iMac then finally a 970 iBook.

I doubt that they would go this way. If they are redesigning everything for the powermacs, they are not going to run to different processor types. This would require them to have two very different motherboards and would increase costs.

I think that they will switch all powermacs to the 970, and then switch the powerbooks. The iMacs will switch 6-12 months later, and the ibooks will be switched last. The reason for the late switches in the consumer lines is that they will try to squeeze out as much power as possible from the g4 and possibly g3 (in the ibooks. By keeping the consumer lines with g4s and g3s, apple can keep down costs until the production ramps up enough for prices to come down. The ibooks are still using g3s and the speed of the g3 has the ability to increase more. I do not see apple changing from the g3 in the ibook until the 970 comes out and even then it will not be for a while.
 

bentmywookie

macrumors regular
Nov 6, 2002
155
0
Palo Alto
Remember the slot-loading Superdrive?

My guess is that once IBM is ready to bang these chips out, Apple will be quick to announce new PMs based around them.

They had the slot-loading Superdrive in the 15" powerbook pretty darn quickly, plus, I think most people wouldn't mind a shipping time of a few weeks for the new PMs anyway. Apple clearly isn't afraid to release products with 1 1/2 - 2 month shipping times (17" powerbook), so I think once IBM is ready to start producing, Apple will announce the brand-new, ever-so-lovely PowerMac! And the Cube 2.0! (just kidding, well . . . maybe).

If there is a MWNY, maybe that's when they'll do it. That seems to be around the right time.
 

awulf

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2002
486
2
South Australia
If Apple would use the PPC 970, wouldn't they get a prototype from IBM to develop the new PowerMac's, it's just later on in the year when IBM can mass produce the 970.

One thing that is weird is that G4 is really only a G3 and 1/2. look at the CPU numbers: 680** (G1), 60* (G2), 750[*x] (G3), 74** (G4).

Then comes the 970, so where is the 8** CPU? Could there be a Motorola G5, for the Consumer line and the 970 the G6, for the Pro line? If you know what I mean.
 

dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2002
1,092
2,237
Originally posted by awulf
If Apple would use the PPC 970, wouldn't they get a prototype from IBM to develop the new PowerMac's, it's just later on in the year when IBM can mass produce the 970.

One thing that is weird is that G4 is really only a G3 and 1/2. look at the CPU numbers: 680** (G1), 60* (G2), 750[*x] (G3), 74** (G4).

Then comes the 970, so where is the 8** CPU? Could there be a Motorola G5, for the Consumer line and the 970 the G6, for the Pro line? If you know what I mean.

You cannot assume anything by the CPU numbers. You are comparing between two CPU manufacturers. That would be like trying to claim a large gap between the V20 and the 8086, when if my memory recalls, they were identical, just NEC and Intel did not use similar naming conventions. 9xx vs 74xx or 750x doesn't matter. Infact, Motorola has been pretty inconsistant on their own with numbering if you check their CPU list. The only numbering which really ever made sense was the 680x0 series (Pre PPC days).
 

Sublime

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2002
70
7
LBC
3rd Q

Originally posted by Freg3000
I am still praying that the "3rd Quarter" means July 1st. :)

The IBM 970 will kick butt. I can't wait.

Doesn't April start the 3rd quarter?
 

Clockwork

macrumors newbie
Nov 22, 2002
23
0
Oslo, Norway
PPC 970

Yeah, I think it will definitely start in the powermacs

I think the PPC 970 will debut in the XServe.
The Power Mac's will probably follow close behind. The XServe was announced in May 2002 and started shipping in July. We might get XServe's with PPC 970's this May that start shipping in July and then Power Mac's with 970's at MWNY. This would probably kill off the Power Mac sales for a couple of months, but I think this is doable, because by that time people will be screaming about how slow the new Power Mac's are and the sales probably won't be that good anyway.
 

dstorey

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2002
527
0
Re: PPC 970

Originally posted by Clockwork
Yeah, I think it will definitely start in the powermacs

I think the PPC 970 will debut in the XServe.
The Power Mac's will probably follow close behind.

I've seen a lot of posts saying they think the ppc 970 will start in the XServe. Isn't the chip its pased on the power 4 not a high end server chip. Doesn't it make sense to use this chip instead, it's gonna be far more powerful and suited to server operations and differenciates the xserve and powermac lines. Ok it's expensive but so is the xserve and it has no Altivec but then how many peoplerun photoshop etc on their file/web/whatever server? A top of the range xserve with power4 would be taken very seriously i'd think.

I'd like to see the 970 be introduced in all lines also, if anything it will save the confusion of apple prducing 32 and 64 bit machines at the same time and the customers having to choose the right version of the software for their machine. The average consumer isn't computer savy and things like that just adds problems, its bad enough having os 9 and x on the go at the same time. Just a thought....
 

Clockwork

macrumors newbie
Nov 22, 2002
23
0
Oslo, Norway
Power4 and XServe

Ok it's expensive but so is the xserve

Putting a Power4 in the XServe would put it in a completely different class. A class I don't think Apple is ready to take on.
The XServe is actually priced very agressively, so although it might seem very expensive it's a fairly good price compared to it's opposition.
I think Apple are getting a good deal on the G4 these days and so they can lower prices such as they have, but there is no way they could keep the prices at this level if something like the Power4 was to make it's entry on the Mac server front.
Remember that Apple was credited for it's humble entry to the server market. They started small, but maybe some day larger servers will make their way into server rooms and render farms.
 

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Clockwork

macrumors newbie
Nov 22, 2002
23
0
Oslo, Norway
just forgot something

it's gonna be far more powerful and suited to server operations and differenciates the xserve and powermac lines.

This is not always the case. I read somewhere that the 970 can actually outperform the Power4 in some cases.
Also I think the XServe's and the Power Mac's are differenciated enough already.

I'm also having a hard time trying to get my head around how they would get a Power4 into a 1U form factor.
 

zac4mac

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2002
306
2
near Boulder, CO. USA
I'm crackin' up reading that some folks think a 970 will find its way to iMacs and iBooks.
They'll be out soon; first in XServe, later in PMs, still later in PBs. I'm gonna guess April, July and December of this year. Barring unforeseen errata problems like the ones that killed Moto last year.
Expect eMacs, iMacs and iBooks to stay with G4/G3s for a few more years.
iMacs have traditionally been a processor generation behind the Power line.

Z
 

Raiden

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2002
147
0
I like the argument that going all 970 would eliminate the confusion of 32bit vs 64bit. Also, with apple switching to IBM, isnt that a slap in the face to motorola? (not like they dont deserve it..) If I were motorola, I would tell steve to shove it and I would stop giving then G3s and G4s. So would apple have no choice but to go all 970?

If that would never happen sorry and disreguard this post.
 

Clockwork

macrumors newbie
Nov 22, 2002
23
0
Oslo, Norway
Can't see that happening....

If I were motorola, I would tell steve to shove it and I would stop giving then G3s and G4s.

I suppose Apple took this precaution and made their suppliers sign a "contract" that would force them to supply Apple with parts until that "contract" expires.
 

cubist

macrumors 68020
Jul 4, 2002
2,075
0
Muncie, Indiana
Also the case change and cpu change likely won't occur at the same time... the only time I recall this happening was with the powerbook G4. Other times the new chip came in the same old case.
 

JtheLemur

macrumors 6502a
May 13, 2002
663
344
The day that the 970 makes its debut in new Macintoshes, will be the "flight of the arrow" for Apple and for consumers all around the world!

Whoa bucko, don't get those hopes up. Change tacks for a second: NVidia recently released their NV30 chip in the form of their FX line of chipsets for graphics cards. Everyone was waiting a LONG time for this chipset that was supposed to destroy every other graphics card out there.

Well, they released it. Thing is, as of today, the ATI Radeon 9700 is better. Now, some may say that the drivers are perhaps immature... but this is supposed to be a new chip, new architecture, etc. What about those incredible graphic-demos they released a few months ago? Well, maybe they just had really good artists. =)

I'm sure al lthe sites will pit the FX against the 9700 again in a few months - giving NVidia a chance to tweak the drivers the same amount that ATI has.

But it just goes to show you that a "crazy new supercomputer-grade awfully powerful" chip from IBM, by the time it is released, may only be COMPARABLE to kit from AMD and Intel, not necessarily BETTER.

But here's hoping to the contrary! AND I want a new enclosure!! SO sick of the stuff based on El Capitan. At least, keep the hinged side, and redo the plastics or something! =D
 

ryan

macrumors 6502
May 17, 2002
283
0
Denver, CO
Re: 3rd Q

Originally posted by Sublime


Doesn't April start the 3rd quarter?

Not last I checked:
Q1: January, February, March
Q2: April, May, June
Q3: July, August, September
Q4: October, November, December
 

lem0nayde

macrumors regular
Apr 26, 2002
171
0
NYC
On one hand, the "i" line of computers should be differentiated from the "Power" line in terms of speed and performance. I think the line between the two has gotten blurred - and Apples lineup was much more appealing when the difference between Pro and Consumer was sharp and defined.

On the other hand - can it really keep the G4 and G3 around in the iMac/iBook for too much longer? I think peoples' frustrations with the MHZ limitations of those chips extend into the consumer arena too. I think those two chips just sound old, Apple has been touting them for years now. Psychologically, they seem like something retro and stale.

Using the 970 across the board might not be a bad idea. Kick out the old, bring in the new. Apple would get a brand new marketing angle (64bit, brand new processor, faster than god, the macs are on top again). And it could also still differentiate between consumer and pro by keeping the pro line all multi-processor (quad anyone?) and the consumer line single processor. Also, aren't all 64bit chips in the lower range of MHZ right now? That too would give Apple a chance to catch up, by heavily marketing the 64bit aspect (although it will mean nothing to most - it sounds great) even though their MHZ would be about the same.

I'm not an expert about these things - but it seems like a reasonable approach to me. I think Apple would benefit from shedding its current skin and starting with a fresh one. The time of the G3/G4 is up, they need to move on.
 

ryan

macrumors 6502
May 17, 2002
283
0
Denver, CO
Originally posted by zac4mac
I'm crackin' up reading that some folks think a 970 will find its way to iMacs and iBooks.
They'll be out soon; first in XServe, later in PMs, still later in PBs. I'm gonna guess April, July and December of this year. Barring unforeseen errata problems like the ones that killed Moto last year.
Expect eMacs, iMacs and iBooks to stay with G4/G3s for a few more years.
iMacs have traditionally been a processor generation behind the Power line.

Z
"A few more years"? You're kidding right? Apple is not going to continue to build machines based two different 32-bit and one 64-bit processor. I don't see Apple switching their pro and consumer lines all over to the 970 in one fell swoop but I would suspect it will happen over the course of 9-12 months. Presumably Apple will differentiate their lines by the number and speed of the processor.
 

gaomay

macrumors regular
May 28, 2002
116
0
Scotland, UK
Continued G4 development

As far as I know Moto are still developing the G4 - they have the G4+ waiting in the wings and then another, more advanced version a little further down the road. Could it not be that these are intended to go in the Imacs/eMacs/iBooks while the power machines get the 970 (and eventually 980 and 990).

just thought that Moto are unlikely to be devloping this stuff if Apple won't use it.
 

PretendPCuser

macrumors regular
Nov 8, 2001
163
0
Northern, NJ
Concerning Motorola

Originally posted by Raiden
If I were motorola, I would tell steve to shove it and I would stop giving then G3s and G4s. So would apple have no choice but to go all 970?

If that would never happen sorry and disreguard this post.

It was my understanding that Motorola slapped Apple in the face by saying that they were only going to develop the G5 for embedded processors. Apple wouldn't be able to use the embedded processor and Motorola was not interested in making a G5 available for Apple cause it is too small a market. Motorola makes more from embedded processors than it does selling microprocessors to Apple, so they blew off Apple. What was Apple supposed to do? Wait til Motorola realized that "HEy, maybe we can do a G5 for Apple if we get more money". No, Apple looked for alternate processors to implement. This is called contingency planning. It's what most people in these forums were crying for. "Dump Motorola". I don't think Motorola is in any position to say that they were wronged if Apple went all 970.

Plus, as was stated, i'm absolutely SURE that there is a contract in there somewhere, and precisely what is in that contract may determine what lines are released with the 970. Don't forget, IBM also manufacturer's G3's, though i don't know if they are the same processor as what Motorola produces.

It will be interesting to see who sues who over what when all is said and done. Cause you gotta know the way things are going, there's a lawsuit in there somewhere!!
 

FatTony

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2002
122
0
Re: Re: 3rd Q

Originally posted by ryan


Not last I checked:
Q1: January, February, March
Q2: April, May, June
Q3: July, August, September
Q4: October, November, December

I think there is also the option of financial quarters. Doesn't Apple's first financial quarter include the holiday retail season? This would shift their subsequent quarters ahead.

Also, with regards to case design and new processors and multiple processors/motherboards in the pro line. Apple did this with the yikes and sawtooth G4s. New case (atleast the color) with the new processore and the low end G4 was just the G3 motherboard with a G4 in it while the higher end models had all new motherboards.

I don't think it is out of the question for the low end PowerMac to have a G4 while the higher ends have IBM's GPUL. That way Apple can purge some inventory and at the same time release the next big thing.
 

trebblekicked

macrumors 6502a
Dec 30, 2002
896
3
Chicago, IL, USA
Originally posted by cubist
Also the case change and cpu change likely won't occur at the same time... the only time I recall this happening was with the powerbook G4. Other times the new chip came in the same old case.

a .5 disagrement...
the G4 Yikes/Sawtooth came in a graphite and slightly more opaque version of the G3 B/W Yosemite case. Did the original flat panel imac have a G3? I can't remember.

i think the QS/MDD look is on it's last legs. it's been a couple years now, and the basic tower enclosure is the same as the yosemite was...i think we will see radical redesign of the powermac. i agree. leave the hinged door in some fashion, go nuts with the rest.
 

DharvaBinky

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2002
89
0
Lafayette, LA
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy


That is a nice thought...schools switching to OSX. It is true schools are switching...but they are switching to PC's. At one time Apple owned the education market. Today almost all the schools in my state have went with PC's and it is the same every other place. It is real sad, but it is the truth. Apple needs to try and get back into this market that they have pretty much completely lost.

I work at the college of education here and yes, all of our local schools in the Parish (what we call Counties in Louisiana) switched by administrative mandate from MacOS to Windows. This happened a few years ago with disasterous results. They bought a whole *slew* of new PCs and hooked them up and onto the internet and etc etc... and then, like, 2 months into the school year the entire computing budget was completely drained because of support costs. Most teachers had wisely squirreled away their old macs (they weren't forced to ditch them, they were just all given new PCs and told no macs would ever be reparied again). Teachers had some *old* gear... LC475s, Performa 6115s, Some of those all in one 603e machines (5700s were they? the proto-imacs?). They pulled this ancient gear out of the closet. And it worked again, and so... now, half the classrooms in the area have a broken new PC in the back, and an LC475 chugging away with "accellerated reader" in the front.

;)

Here's what I've learned about teachers. You could make every teacher in the world a switcher by giving away free gear. Teachers eat that crap up. Tote bags, mouse pads, Copies of OS X, copies of appleworks, pens, books, anything. Teachers are the greediest prize grabbing group I've ever seen. I went to a NECC (National Educational Computing Conference) event once, and they were giving away some freebies (I think it was copies of appleworks and a dummies book or something) and a MOB (literally) of teachers raided the stand at the back of the room before the keynote and *stole* all of the freebies (tote bags, appleworks, books, etc). running off with 3, 4, and 5 copies each. They ran out quickly, and security had to be called to break up the mini-riot.

So... Freebies are the way to a teacher's heart. Apple should try it more often.

Ryan
 

Catfish_Man

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2001
2,579
2
Portland, OR
Originally posted by awulf
If Apple would use the PPC 970, wouldn't they get a prototype from IBM to develop the new PowerMac's, it's just later on in the year when IBM can mass produce the 970.

One thing that is weird is that G4 is really only a G3 and 1/2. look at the CPU numbers: 680** (G1), 60* (G2), 750[*x] (G3), 74** (G4).

Then comes the 970, so where is the 8** CPU? Could there be a Motorola G5, for the Consumer line and the 970 the G6, for the Pro line? If you know what I mean.

Actually, you're wrong.
G1 = 601-603
G2 = 604
G3 = 750
G4 = 7400-7410
G4+ = 745x
Mythical G5 = either 75xx or 85xx (85xx exists, but it's pretty much embedded only)

The 68xxx series weren't PowerPC, and the 'G' stands for the PowerPC generation.
 

springscansing

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2002
922
0
New York
Re: maybe

Originally posted by Steradian
is it possible that because it Is "the year of the labtop" that the 1.2 ghz versions will be in the revison of the 15.2 inch model PB? who knows? i don't

What's a labtop?
 

kwajo.com

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2002
895
0
Bay of Fundy
to whoever said it will be the "flight of the arrow" for apple, I would shut up - that is if you are referring to the Avro Arrow, and we all know what that did for the company. . .
 
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