The Average Joe (or Josephina) IS aware....

[br0adband]

I always wonder about such things:

Apple says "We sold 1.7 million iPhone 4's..." and most people take it on faith (with some present company excluded from that, obviously).

Apple says "We're sold out..." and again most people take that on faith, with the same persons excluded.

I don't know about any of you, but honestly, based on my knowledge, experience, and actual in-person dealings with multiple Apple personnel (including many at 1 Infinite Loop in person over the decades), if I were anyone working at Apple in the marketing or even the business departments, I'd be telling stores and everyone in range of my voice to make the claim "We're sold out... no, not really, but it's gonna drive the sheep bonkers... it does every time."

I honestly don't put anything past this company, I stopped doing that 20+ years ago and learned a lesson that has altered my perception of them since that time.

And they haven't surprised me again since.

And with that post, I'm going to bed. Being retired is tough on us old bastards... have a great day, folks.

 

[ajsnow6234]

But to deny that public opinion has been affected, I believe, is silly.

Of course public opinion has been affected, that's the point. A lot of the "public opinion" has been slighted in such a way by the media because they are lemmings...and they will just buy into whatever is said on tv or what their friend that has a Droid saying.

The problem is not nearly as big as it is being portrayed online and on TV. If it was such a horrific issue affecting signal. Those (now probably 2 Mil) iPhones would begin flowing back to Apple at massive rates. People in general are impatient and selfish about these type of situations...instant gratification or BURN Apple.

 

[ajsnow6234]

But no - it's too important for someone like yourself to try and make an example out of someone's post. And in turn, your post itself contributes to the very problem you're trying to avoid by keeping the thread alive.

You're completely right...but it is a two-fold problem. Forum etiquette has fallen off the handle (myself included occasionally). It gets tiresome seeing the same thing over and over just spun in a different tone.

 

[samcraig]

Of course public opinion has been affected, that's the point. A lot of the "public opinion" has been slighted in such a way by the media because they are lemmings...and they will just buy into whatever is said on tv or what their friend that has a Droid saying.

The problem is not nearly as big as it is being portrayed online and on TV. If it was such a horrific issue affecting signal. Those (now probably 2 Mil) iPhones would begin flowing back to Apple at massive rates. People in general are impatient and selfish about these type of situations...instant gratification or BURN Apple.

a) how is this different than TRUE fanboism. NOT saying you are - but there are definitely people that believe whatever Apple says marketing wise BLINDLY. And trust me - I'm in Marketing and PR and have been for over 20 years. Apple is amazing in their marketing. They have millions of people that, to quote you are "lemmings" and "buy into whatever is said."

b) Perception and Reality. It doesn't matter whether or not the issue is real or not. If people believe there is an issue - there's an issue. And that becomes a burden which Apple has to deal with. And they (oddly in my opinion) took a poor first step with their initial reaction.

And yes - you could argue mob mentality. But at the end of the day - a mob is a mob. Whether they are acting on good information or bad information - it's a mob LOL

 

[oldschooldude]

I don't feel that way, especially since it was samcraig's email to Steve Jobs that caused Jobs to reply:

"Just avoid holding it in that way."

samcraig isn't just any old poster around here, fellas... he's been at this issue since it started, just like me and many others. If you're not interested, or wish to not participate, go for it, but don't slam any of us just because we're sharing info.

That's what needs the moderation: people telling us to drop it, etc. It's a discussion forum, we're discussing it, you're actually trolling up threads by complaining about us pointing out the damned phones aren't working for us.

Move along...

+1 !!!!

 

[-aggie-]

People seem to watch the news and believe they are "informed", with no personal experience and no personal knowledge. This "problem", has been completely blown out of proportion by the media and ill-informed people who think they know. In six months time this will just be one of those stories that anti-Apple folks use a cliche debate topic.

We really don’t know if it is “blown out of proportion.” Right now all we have are a few online polls that aren’t scientific or unbiased, which suggest 50% or more have the problem (if not all, depending on location). Until Apple or a reputable pollster makes a report on their findings, we really don’t know.

I personally don’t have any problems with my phone, including the reception one. I also understand the location aspect of this problem, and I’ve tried in locations with bad reception to begin with and still don’t have the problem. Anyone that knows me on these forums, knows my reputation, and knows that I certainly wouldn’t make statements without doing all the research. However, I don’t assume that just because I don’t have it, others don’t (samcraig saying he has the issue is enough for me). I don’t like the hyperbole that everyone has the problem, nor do I like it when it is said that no one has the problem.

 

[ajsnow6234]

We really don’t know if it is “blown out of proportion.” Right now all we have are a few online polls that aren’t scientific or unbiased, which suggest 50% or more have the problem (if not all, depending on location). Until Apple or a reputable pollster makes a report on their findings, we really don’t know.

You're right, we don't know. Being that we don't know the majority of people just happen to side with the negative aspects. People love drama, that's how I feel anyway. I actually was able to replicate the problem the night I had it...since then cannot. From some non-bias people I have seen they have actually said in some bad areas, reception has improved. Including less dropped calls.

 

[drtimo]

Sky news and BBC news has reported it.
Not sure abot ITV but I don't really watch that channel ever.

ITV - true too many ill placed adverts

Am sure all media have reported on it, but not seen it in main bit of any news - most people ignore small news these days.

 

[samcraig]

Indeed Aggie.

And my new i4 is actually much better. And it does change based on my location (work I lose MAYBE 1 bar) and at home, I can lose up to 3-4. And I've never exaggerated my problem or THE problem. I have maintained that I personally have never lost a call and that I carry my phone in a case so ultimately I don't see it being an overall issue for me.

But that doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist for me or for how ever many others.

 

[ajsnow6234]

Indeed Aggie.

And I've never exaggerated my problem or THE problem. .

You had no problem creating a thread to help Perpetuate "THE problem".

 

[Apple-NoEscape]

ITV - true too many ill placed adverts

Am sure all media have reported on it, but not seen it in main bit of any news - most people ignore small news these days.

I don't know they do seen to pick the moments where you are on the edge of your seat giving the tv your full attention, perfect marketing 2bh

That may be why, I always make sure I watch/read the small news, is always my favorite part; you get all the quirky/strange stories like today apparently a plane was forced to return to the airport (this was in America btw) because maggots were falling out the luggage compartment. It's always better than 'MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, ROBBERY, ATTEMPTED MURDER, PRIME MINISTER etc'

 

[samcraig]

You had no problem creating a thread to help Perpetuate "THE problem".

I think you missed the point of my original post. And you do realize that there's a difference between perpetuating and exaggerating right?

 

[ajsnow6234]

I think you missed the point of my original post. And you do realize that there's a difference between perpetuating and exaggerating right?

Perpetuating and exaggerating can often times have similar affects on what you said "public opinions". Thanks for suggested English lesson though.

 

[xaquaticx]

I can agree with this and uberamd.

It doesn't matter if people are getting the RIGHT information or not though. If they believe what they are being told (and some at least are) then it affects their purchase decision. So to say this issue - small or not - isn't affecting purchase decisions isn't accurate. I'm not saying YOU said that. I am saying that it's been said. And it's been said that with 1.7 million phones sold - no one seems to care. But again I would say that could be skewed as most of those phones were sold before it hit mainstream media. And I believe I read (I could be wrong) that about 65-70 percent were people upgrading their phones).

Yes - Apple is sold out all over the place. And there was an article today that stated that if there were more phones out of production, who knows how many Apple could have already sold. We'll really never know. Nor will we know how many phones would have sold had this "non issue" hit the mainstream media. But to deny that public opinion has been affected, I believe, is silly.

Not sure where to put this but I really like the premise of this thread...

Hah I walked into AT&T and everyone was talking about all of the iPhone 4's problems. And of course the nervous AT&T reps were desperately trying to play down as much as possible all the issues.

And there is a tower across the road. Literally. And I could reproduce the signal problem. Um, not good. I was so ready to buy. I think I am going to get an Android. Probably Droid X. Apple F*CKED UP. this may be the tipping point...in 10 years Android will be 90% of smartphones like Windows is 90% of PCs. Sure iPHone will exist. it will be like the Mac. Niche. Jobs really screwed up, and insulted customers to boot.

 

[pilotError]

I think you should have told her she has to wait anyway. They are sold out everywhere.

That usually gets the point across...

 

[samcraig]

I think you should have told her she has to wait anyway. They are sold out everywhere.

That usually gets the point across...

That's a fallacy though. They are in high demand - but they aren't sold out everywhere consistently. She's also well aware of the demand so I am not sure what "point" that truly makes. She isn't buying one now nor is she submitting her name on a waiting list until more is known.

 

[atomicbatteries]

A pointless complete waste of time thread.

The phone is selling, people don't care that it has a problem, Apple doesn't care that it has a problem, it only care how much do re me its bringing in.

Main stream media has all but forgotten about the issue or have been clandestinely warned that continuing to report it will have consequences next time Apple rolls out a new product and they want a good seat or an interview with The Liar in Chief Jobs.

Apple has won, it's a non issue no matter how many threads are started. People are not returning their phones, their keeping them, and good ol Steve knows that.

If thread starters on this issue were looking to make an impact and move this back into the main stream then they would be defendants on law suits being filed on behalf of consumers across the country. I didn't see any names i recognized when looking over the legal documents filed and posted this morning.

So, where does that leave us, nowhere, exactly where we started, with a phone that clearly has issues for some, yet they keep it and complain. Go figure will ya!

 

[samcraig]

A pointless complete waste of time thread.

The phone is selling, people don't care that it has a problem, Apple doesn't care that it has a problem, it only care how much do re me its bringing in.

Main stream media has all but forgotten about the issue or have been clandestinely warned that continuing to report it will have consequences next time Apple rolls out a new product and they want a good seat or an interview with The Liar in Chief Jobs.

Apple has won, it's a non issue no matter how many threads are started. People are not returning their phones, their keeping them, and good ol Steve knows that.

If thread starters on this issue were looking to make an impact and move this back into the main stream then they would be defendants on law suits being filed on behalf of consumers across the country. I didn't see any names i recognized when looking over the legal documents filed and posted this morning.

So, where does that leave us, nowhere, exactly where we started, with a phone that clearly has issues for some, yet they keep it and complain. Go figure will ya!

1. If it was a waste of time for you to read - why even bother responding? It certainly wasn't a waste of my time to write. And far from pointless.

2. As indicated - people do care. But feel free to gloss over that point since you already missed the point of this thread. Apple does care. To think otherwise is ignorant.

3. Mainstream media has all but forgotten? No. It's just that there's no reason to RE-REPORT news. When Apple makes a statement or there's a fix, no doubt, the mainstream media will pick up the story again. And next product launch, every article they wrote about this event will be referenced. No doubt if the mainstream media WERE writing pointless stories rehashing the same problem over and over - people like yourself would be arguing "they aren't saying anything new - they're just bashing Apple over and over." Damned if they do, Damned if they don't...

4. Please provide evidence that people are not returning their phones. How many have been brought back for service/replacement and how many complaints have been logged in via ATT, Apple, BB, Radio Shack and the like. Just because you say that people aren't returning them doesn't make it true.

5. Your comment about seeing names as defendants on lawsuits is laughable. Sincerely.

Again - if you see threads like this as such a waste of time - why did you waste yours? Hmmmmm

 

[aforty]

I think the OP is right. This is becoming mainstream news and people who watch the mainstream news now all know about the reception problem, whether it's widespread or not, the perception is that it affects most iPhone 4's. The story will die down however and Apple will respond and/or fix the problem. This will all go away for them relatively soon. I also imagine a future hardware revision where the antenna has been coated with some kind of non-conductive film and bumpers or replacements for those who bought before then.

I'm just hoping the white will be fixed when it comes out. I'm waiting for that.

 

[atomicbatteries]

1. If it was a waste of time for you to read - why even bother responding? It certainly wasn't a waste of my time to write. And far from pointless.

2. As indicated - people do care. But feel free to gloss over that point since you already missed the point of this thread. Apple does care. To think otherwise is ignorant.

3. Mainstream media has all but forgotten? No. It's just that there's no reason to RE-REPORT news. When Apple makes a statement or there's a fix, no doubt, the mainstream media will pick up the story again. And next product launch, every article they wrote about this event will be referenced. No doubt if the mainstream media WERE writing pointless stories rehashing the same problem over and over - people like yourself would be arguing "they aren't saying anything new - they're just bashing Apple over and over." Damned if they do, Damned if they don't...

4. Please provide evidence that people are not returning their phones. How many have been brought back for service/replacement and how many complaints have been logged in via ATT, Apple, BB, Radio Shack and the like. Just because you say that people aren't returning them doesn't make it true.

5. Your comment about seeing names as defendants on lawsuits is laughable. Sincerely.

Again - if you see threads like this as such a waste of time - why did you waste yours? Hmmmmm

Excuse me, but are you calling me ignorant?

 

[samcraig]

Excuse me, but are you calling me ignorant?

If you think Apple doesn't care about this issue. Care at all. Yes you are ignorant. And I choose my words carefully. And just so we're clear that I'm not using it as a "slur." I mean it in the very way it's defined. As in you are ignorant (lack knowledge) what Apple does or does not care about.

Definitions of Ignorant:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned:
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

 

[atomicbatteries]

If you think Apple doesn't care about this issue. Care at all. Yes you are ignorant. And I choose my words carefully. And just so we're clear that I'm not using it as a "slur." I mean it in the very way it's defined. As in you are ignorant (lack knowledge) what Apple does or does not care about.

Definitions of Ignorant:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned:
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

My dear friend, I actually think you did choose your words carefully and I still think it was your way of trying to insult a fellow member. I mean even your definition alludes to the fact that I am somehow not aware, unlearned, and have a lack of knowledge. Come on Dude, stop trying to respond to every person who does not agree with you.

For the record, I am probably am at least as versed if not more so on this than you might think, I do know I am probably a lot more familiar with the retail environment with regard to what typically happens in corporate cases like this. Your youthful optimism is commendable but I am quite sure this is not an issue Apple is sweating about what so ever.

You may remember the rampant issues people were having with wifi with the ipad, a fix is coming coming coming....Hugh?, never came. Tell me where is that issue today, whose talking about it, no one on the boards that I can see, no one on the main stream media I can see. Its gone with the wind brother, just like this one will be in due course.

And no amount of whining, threats of return or law suit will prevent the inevitable. Nothing is ever going to amount to this. "Its a non issue", and will remain one.

You must have heard that one in one of the many fake Jobs emails circulating the blogosphere of conspiracy, kinda like the single bullet theory, ever hear of that one?

 

[zoman504]

My dear friend, I probably am more versed on this than you might think, and certainly a lot more familiar with the retail environment with regard to what typically happens in cases like this. Your youthful optimism is commendable but I am quite sure this is not an issue Apple is sweating about what so ever.

You may remember the rampant issues people were having with wifi with the ipad, a fix is coming coming coming, hugh, never came. Tell me where is that issue today, whose talking about it, no one on the boards that I can see, no one on the main stream media I can see. Its gone with the wind brother, just like this one will be in due course.

And no amount of whining, threats of return or law suit will prevent the inevitable. Nothing is ever going to amount to this. "Its a non issue", and will remain one.

You must have heard that one in one of the many fake Jobs emails circulating the blogosphere of conspiracy, kinda like the single bullet theory, ever hear of that one?

Sorry, this issue is much larger than the ipad wifi problems. It's much more widespread, and is being picked up by national media outlets. Trust me, Apple is sweating it, despite what their fanboys may believe. This whole thing reminds of the xbox 360 fanboys continuing to defend Microsoft over the RROD, then one by one they continuously found out it was a real issue as their systems died lol. I love Apple, and the phone, I just want a statement and a fix, nothing more.

 

[aforty]

Sorry, this issue is much larger than the ipad wifi problems. It's much more widespread, and is being picked up by national media outlets. Trust me, Apple is sweating it, despite what their fanboys may believe. This whole thing reminds of the xbox 360 fanboys continuing to defend Microsoft over the RROD, then one by one they continuously found out it was a real issue as their systems died lol. I love Apple, and the phone, I just want a statement and a fix, nothing more.

+1

What makes this worse for Apple that it is very easily reproducible for media outlets whereas with Xbox 360 it was just widely known to happen. Demonstrating this "flaw" makes for great live shot demonstrations on the local evening news adding instant credence to the problem that didn't before exist.

 

[samcraig]

My dear friend, ....

So I shouldn't respond to people that question me? You directly questioned me and my post. Why wouldn't I respond?

And I have no reason to lie - if I intended to name call or insult you - believe me - it wouldn't be vague or masked. I also wouldn't do that as it is not only counter-productive but also against forum rules.

As for my "youthful optimism" - thanks. I don't consider myself a youthful optimistic. But perhaps over 20 years in Marketing and PR and how companies manage situations doesn't equate to your vast knowledge of the retail business. After all - it's only 20+ years of experience. There are people who have much more.

You might be versed in Retail. But you seem to fail to recognize that "fixes" don't happen over night. That companies want to do rigorous research and testing before they announce a fix. Why? Because if the fix isn't a fix - they're not only where they started off - but many steps back n the eyes of the public.

I honestly don't have a timeline as to when there's going to be a wifi fix for the iPad. I have no idea about what is actually causing the issue. Perhaps Apple already has the solution and they're testing it. Maybe they have a bunch of things to fix and that they want to release a bunch of things at once rather than one at a time. Maybe they don't have a clue and are still researching. And yes - maybe they have no intention of fixing it. But no one here has that knowledge. So it is ignorant to state one way or the other.

PS - the emails that Jobs sent "Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way" and "Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases. " Those "fake" emails? Yeah - they came to me. I'm the person that exchanged emails with Steve (or whoever responds to his email). So pardon me if I don't buy into your analysis on your final point there