The Beat Goes On: Nano, Touch, Beatles, Wireless?

[8bitrevolution]

exactly. In the next few years wifi is going to be everywhere. you will be able to pick up free hits from any mid sized town. Sitting at my kitchen table in a suburban neighborhood I already get 12+ hits, many of which are unlocked. an iPod with wifi means everyone will have some sort of use for them.

honestly what teenager uses the home computer for anything but the internet and instant messenger? maybe games, but hardcore gamers aren't going to be running on a mac anyway. if the ipod had wifi parents wouldn't have to buy a computer for their kid, they could buy a 400 dollar iPod and their kid could do everything they wanted with it, and the parents could keep their computer.

10-15 year olds, iChat and their blog (myspace or xanga)
16-22 year olds, facebook, email, news, youtube
23-30 year olds, email, stocks

the list goes on. an iPod with wifi means a happier world.

You've got to be kidding? An iPod, or iPhone for that matter, isn't a suitable replacement for a computer.

Most portable devices are trying to replicate the feature set of a computer and put it in your pocket. If you're sitting at home, I don't see many people using the portable device over the computer while at home unless you need to use it somewhere other than where your computer is.

If mom and dad want the computer back, they're getting the kid a Dell or Wal-Mart special. Or better yet, nothing at all. The great thing about being parents is you can tell your kids "No! Not yours!" and that's that. Parents don't, and shouldn't, have to buy their kids something else so they can get the computer back.

 

[Bimmi]

Seriously, Apple is NOT going to set the iPod up to directly compete with the iPhone, unless Jobs has recently lost his mind. He's always taken extraordinary care to avoid product overlap in Apple's lineup, so why are so many so sure that he's going to abandon that now?

Apple took a not-inconsiderable risk on the iPhone, and currently a great deal of attention is being paid to that unit's sales figures. Why, a mere three months after the iPhone's introduction, would Apple introduce a separate product that duplicates most of its features, thus inevitably cutting into its sales?

Answer: they won't. And if they do, then they may as well not have bothered with an iPhone in the first place.

 

[goosnarrggh]

I Agree.

I would also add in the fact that FM radio is not what it used to be, it's just AM radio at a higher frequency.

As an R&D engineer in the wireless communications industry, I find that statement laughable!

However, if they did put in an FM tuner, I'd love for it to be able to accept HD Radio.

Think of the current state of HD Radio as somewhat akin to broadcast HDTV - the original analog carrier still exists, carrying content equivalent to the original FM spec appropriate for compatibility with older receivers. A digital signal is layered on top of that, delivering (currently) up to 150 kbps of content for a higher-quality digital version of the analog program, and/or alternate digital programming streams, sharing the same frequency and station callsign.

DAB would be a nice alternative too, but that would alienate customers in the USA where the FCC has so far only permitted the use of HD Radio.

Unfortunately, I think the processing power required to decode Digital FM in real-time with the current state of technology would overload any handheld device's battery in a matter of minutes. So no dice (yet)...

 

[madmaxmedia]

Unfortunately, I think the processing power required to decode HD FM in real-time with the current state of technology would overload any handheld device's battery in a matter of minutes. So no dice (yet)...

Is it that computationally intensive? (I have no idea.)

Also, wouldn't such a product use a hardware decoder, as they do for decompressing video? I would assume that decoding HD audio wouldn't be more complex than decompressing 640 x 480 H264. (just speculating.) Maybe such a hardware decoder isn't available yet for mobile devices.

 

[OldTimey]

I think it's 50/50 at this point, if I had to guess I might say Apple will skip wifi (and the associated goodies) this time around. But I think in the long run it is inevitable.

Me too. In my mind It's a coin toss. If I think about Apple's track record, they almost always progress their products in very regimented ways. (ie, iPod, iPod w/click wheel, iPod with color screen, iPod that plays video)

The jump from the current iPod to one that is: OSX based, Full screen, has multi touch, WIFI, wireless iTunes store, and all the bundled apps of the iPhone seems like a really big one. Something is going to be left out...it almost always (in Apple's case) is. I mean, we have to have SOMETHING to whine about here after Sept. 5th, no? hehe

 

[8bitrevolution]

What exactly is the appeal of wi-fi on the iPod? Lots of people seem to want it, but I personally don't get it. Assuming a lack of rich Internet capability for now (and I am indeed assuming this), what's the appeal? Did the Zune utilize its wi-fi for anything apart from its ridiculous sharing feature, which is obviously a non-starter with DRMed media? Buying music directly from the iPod holds zero appeal for me, as does wireless computer-to-iPod transfer. Can someone enlighten me as to why we need wi-fi on the iPod?

If the iPod does come with wifi without Safari or some sort of internet capabilities, I think it's pretty well worthless. We all got to see how wonderfully successful the Zune was with it's wireless sharing.

Wireless synching may be nice but only if it's at no extra cost to me. I have no problem using a synch cable.

 

[i0Nic]

Yes, this is true, this is ALL speculation for the most part. But I think there is a far greater argument that a wifi iPod will maximize Apple's overall revenues vs. non-wifi iPod. Or in other words, Apple sells a few less iPhones, but makes up the difference with greater iPod sales.

Think about your post about it making too much sense. In the long run, a business will make more money by trying to directly address the needs of its customers, than by forcing them down arbitrary solutions (i.e. you can't have wifi unless you also sign up for 2 years of cell phone service.) Because in the long run, competition will try to fill the gap.

I think it's 50/50 at this point, if I had to guess I might say Apple will skip wifi (and the associated goodies) this time around. But I think in the long run it is inevitable.

People who think the iPod will have wifi... give yourself an uppercut. Apple will not cannibalise their 'top' portable gadget- the iPhone... however they don't mind cannibalising a lower product.

The iPhone is the future of the iPod. Do you really think that Apple is going to go backwards and make the iPod just as good if not better than it's premium product? They WANT you to get an iPhone, eventually.

Yes, it's locked into AT+T now. Yes, they have a 5 year exclusivity contract, but contracts are made to be broken. Not to mention worldwide sales.

They cannibalise down the product line, not up. Cannibalising a higher end product makes no sense. Take it from a marketing graduate, it won't happen.

No safari etc in the iPod. It still may have wifi, for a possible wireless music store. However, I would put that at a 15% chance.

Safari, mail and other iPhone features on the iPod? 1% chance.

Apple DO care about the iPhone. Remember, it's the product that they hold on par with the original mac and ipod as their 'next big thing'. They are looking at things long term, and long term it is much more viable to keep the iPhone as the premium gadget. They want people to move UP to the iPhone. For this reason, apps will be kept to the iPhone.

A widescreen multi-touch iPod will sell in bucketloads without wifi, wifi is an unnecessary feature in the iPod at this stage.

Get over it.

 

[elcid]

Those of you who have an iPhone, did you buy the phone strictly to use WiFI (not edge) and the phone part wasnt a buying point at all?


The amount of people that would answer yes to that question are the people the iPod would steal away from the iPhone. And personally I dont see that as many people.


Seperate thought...Apple has to start looking at the fact that they have saturated the market pretty well with iPods. Is a widescreen enough to get a person to drop their 5g for this? WiFi is a new thing to lure more people. While you can wait for a bigger screen, now you have the envy of "well my player doesnt do that at all "

 

[i0Nic]

Those of you who have an iPhone, did you buy the phone strictly to use WiFI (not edge) and the phone part wasnt a buying point at all?


The amount of people that would answer yes to that question are the people the iPod would steal away from the iPhone. And personally I dont see that as many people.

They bought it because of all 3 features, iPod, phone, internet communicator. It's a convergence device, the iPod is not a convergence device.

 

[elcid]

They bought it because of all 3 features, iPod, phone, internet communicator. It's a convergence device, the iPod is not a convergence device.

Right. So in 99% of the places you go, an iPod will be nothing more than that. Go home (which is dumb) or to a coffee shop and you will have a bonus. I think people are forgetting that the wireless isnt going to be like EDGE, and thus you have to think about where this is going to be useful.

 

[Bimmi]

I can only speak for myself, but given the choice between an iPhone with meager media storage and an internetPod that can hold all my stuff, I'd definitely go for the latter. If the iPhone remains Apple's only mobile Internet platform and I decide I need just such a platform, then the choice is already made for me, aye? And as we know, making your choices for you has ALWAYS been the Apple way.

 

[8bitrevolution]

People who think the iPod will have wifi... give yourself an uppercut. Apple will not cannibalise their 'top' portable gadget- the iPhone... however they don't mind cannibalising a lower product.

The iPhone is the future of the iPod. Do you really think that Apple is going to go backwards and make the iPod just as good if not better than it's premium product? They WANT you to get an iPhone, eventually.

Yes, it's locked into AT+T now. Yes, they have a 5 year exclusivity contract, but contracts are made to be broken. Not to mention worldwide sales.

They cannibalise down the product line, not up. Cannibalising a higher end product makes no sense. Take it from a marketing graduate, it won't happen.

No safari etc in the iPod. It still may have wifi, for a possible wireless music store. However, I would put that at a 15% chance.

Safari, mail and other iPhone features on the iPod? 1% chance.

Apple DO care about the iPhone. Remember, it's the product that they hold on par with the original mac and ipod as their 'next big thing'. They are looking at things long term, and long term it is much more viable to keep the iPhone as the premium gadget. They want people to move UP to the iPhone. For this reason, apps will be kept to the iPhone.

A widescreen multi-touch iPod will sell in bucketloads without wifi, wifi is an unnecessary feature in the iPod at this stage.

Get over it.

OS X and multi-touch are the big deals about the iPhone. The more I think about, the less likely I think it is that we'll see multi-touch or OS X. To me, that's what really sets them apart. The iPhone could still surf (very slowly) without wifi just using EDGE. However, the iPhone would not be possible without the multi-touch screen and OS X.

 

[i0Nic]

Is a widescreen enough to get a person to drop their 5g for this?

YES. Wouldn't you like to have one? 'Touch your music' 'Movies and TV shows, now in widescreen' 'Seeing is Believing' etc etc People will fall over themselves to buy it.

WiFi is a new thing to lure more people. While you can wait for a bigger screen, now you have the envy of "well my player doesnt do that at all "

Since when have Apple cared about features on the iPod?
The conversations will pan out like this:
kid 1: 'hey, check out my new ipod, it's got a touch screen, I can watch movies in widescreen, pinch my photos..' etc
kid 2: 'cool, I have my Toshiba x124df player which has wifi so I can..."
kid 3: 'WOW NEW IPOD I WANT IT, IT'S SO COOL'

end.

 

[OldTimey]

YES. Wouldn't you like to have one? 'Touch your music' 'Movies and TV shows, now in widescreen' 'Seeing is Believing' etc etc People will fall over themselves to buy it.


Since when have Apple cared about features on the iPod?
The conversations will pan out like this:
kid 1: 'hey, check out my new ipod, it's got a touch screen, I can watch movies in widescreen, pinch my photos..' etc
kid 2: 'cool, I have my Toshiba x124df player which has wifi so I can..."
kid 3: 'WOW NEW IPOD I WANT IT, IT'S SO COOL'

end.

Not for me it's not, i'd rather an iPhone!

 

[i0Nic]

Right. So in 99% of the places you go, an iPod will be nothing more than that. Go home (which is dumb) or to a coffee shop and you will have a bonus. I think people are forgetting that the wireless isnt going to be like EDGE, and thus you have to think about where this is going to be useful.

So basically it's going to be useless? Exactly the point. The iPod is a music and video player, not a communications device. It won't have wifi, if you want wifi, upgrade to the iPhone. Simple as that.

 

[i0Nic]

I can only speak for myself, but given the choice between an iPhone with meager media storage and an internetPod that can hold all my stuff, I'd definitely go for the latter. If the iPhone remains Apple's only mobile Internet platform and I decide I need just such a platform, then the choice is already made for me, aye? And as we know, making your choices for you has ALWAYS been the Apple way.

Hello, if you have needs of mass storage AND portable internet, Apple want you to buy both. They don't want you to choose.

Eventually, the iPhone will take over the iPod with mass flash storage. Until then, Apple want you to buy both.

edit- either way, you will buy at least one device am I right? So they've already got one sale from you. by not including internet in the iPod, they may get two sales.

Marketing 101

edit 2- I think that's actually the point you were making, I didn't read your post too carefully sorry.

 

[madmaxmedia]

People who think the iPod will have wifi... give yourself an uppercut. Apple will not cannibalise their 'top' portable gadget- the iPhone... however they don't mind cannibalising a lower product.

The iPhone is the future of the iPod. Do you really think that Apple is going to go backwards and make the iPod just as good if not better than it's premium product? They WANT you to get an iPhone, eventually.

Why do you assume that a wifi iPod would be a 'lower product'. I assume that if they came out with such a device, it would be priced very close to the iPhone and deliver similar profit margin.

Whether you call it an 'iPhone' or an 'iPod', is really just semantics. Should Apple totally eliminate all iPods too, since iPhone plays music and video?

Apple has continually expanded the iPod line with lower priced products. First the Mini, then the Shuffle. Where was the horrible sales cannibalization there? No, Apple grew TOTAL sales.

And in the long run, Apple cannot act completely independently of the market. There is still competition you know, and Apple has done a great job of leading it. In the long run, why wouldn't Apple have a mobile device with wifi, that doesn't force you to sign a 2-year cell contract? iPhone sales cannibalization, by itself, is an illogical argument against Apple releasing (now or later) other mobile devices with wifi.

 

[OldTimey]

Go home (which is dumb) or to a coffee shop and you will have a bonus.

the folks I know with iPhone+WIFI at home spend more time on their iPhone than on their macs...hehe

I think people are forgetting that the wireless isnt going to be like EDGE, and thus you have to think about where this is going to be useful.

-Home
-Work
-Airports
-coffee shops
-kinkos
-libraries
-university campuses
-Portland (and more cities to come)
-parks (yes, many city parks now have wifi)

I spend maybe 20 hrs a day in places with wifi...the only times I don't are when Im driving in my car, going for a walk, at the gym...all times I really don't need internet access. (in the case of the car, shame on all of you who text/check google maps/write emails while driving! shame shame shame!)

the list goes on and on, and is only growing. The united states' infrastructure is one that greatly favors WIFI over EDGE (or similar technologies). The wired lines are already in place, all you need are receiver/transmitters.

 

[8bitrevolution]

After much thought, here's my predictions about the new iPod.

-It will have more storage
-It will have some "ground-breaking" feature
-It will look different than the 5th gen iPod

Other than that it's all up in the air. Whatever it is, Steve will come out and convince people everywhere that we want and need one.

People will inevitably complain about what didn't get put in thus fueling arguments over 7th gen iPod features.

In fact, that's my prediction for every iPod release from now on.

How long have people been wanting a touch screen iPod/iMac/Macbook/Cinema display now? And let's not forget the fabled successor to the Newton.

It's still fun to speculate, though.

 

[Bimmi]

Another point to consider for those who feel that iPod taking away iPhone sales is nothing Apple should be concerned about: iPhone is a completely new product category for Apple, aimed at a market in which they have never competed before. There are many (and I'm not just talking about some guys on the Internet) who remain unconvinced that Apple can be a serious player in this market, and there are others who are waiting to pounce on ANY sign of weakness or failure where the iPhone is concerned.

Obviously the iPod and the iPhone will be one and the same someday, but between the care and feeding of this new category and Apple's long history of evolutionary upgrades to its existing product lines. I think it's still time to keep the two separate and distinct. And I say this as someone who actually wants to see an internetPod.

 

[madmaxmedia]

So basically it's going to be useless? Exactly the point. The iPod is a music and video player, not a communications device. It won't have wifi, if you want wifi, upgrade to the iPhone. Simple as that.

That argument makes no sense- I want wifi, I need to buy a cell phone?

There's not a logical business argument for Apple to go that way in the long run. There's a short-sighted short-term argument for it perhaps. But you don't think 1 or 2 or 3 years from now, Apple won't provide an alternate solution than "You want wifi, buy our cell phone"?

Whether or not a mobile wifi device has significant market potential is a different discussion, which I agree is an open issue (same as other features such as FM radio, etc.) But if it's worth doing, then other companys are going to address that market. And Apple will have to follow in the long run.

 

[OldTimey]

After much thought, here's my predictions about the new iPod.

-It will have more storage
-It will have some "ground-breaking" feature
-It will look different than the 5th gen iPod

Other than that it's all up in the air. Whatever it is, Steve will come out and convince people everywhere that we want and need one.

+1

I hope that "ground-breaking" feature is WIFI, but it might just be multi-touch.

 

[madmaxmedia]

LOL. No, Marketing 101 is addressing the needs of your customers in the most satisfactory and effective way possible. That will net you more profit in the long run than trying to force people to buy 2 devices when 1 would actually suffice. Because your competition is going to try to fill that gap even if you don't.

The better you widget, the more you'll sell.

(better doesn't automatically mean more features, as some may or may not be deemed unnecessary by the market. But that wasn't what your post was about. Your post already assumed that the feature was needed, hence the opportunity to force customers to buy a second product.)

Hello, if you have needs of mass storage AND portable internet, Apple want you to buy both. They don't want you to choose.

Eventually, the iPhone will take over the iPod with mass flash storage. Until then, Apple want you to buy both.

edit- either way, you will buy at least one device am I right? So they've already got one sale from you. by not including internet in the iPod, they may get two sales.

Marketing 101

edit 2- I think that's actually the point you were making, I didn't read your post too carefully sorry.

 

[i0Nic]

Why do you assume that a wifi iPod would be a 'lower product'. I assume that if they came out with such a device, it would be priced very close to the iPhone and deliver similar profit margin.

Whether you call it an 'iPhone' or an 'iPod', is really just semantics. Should Apple totally eliminate all iPods too, since iPhone plays music and video?

Apple has continually expanded the iPod line with lower priced products. First the Mini, then the Shuffle. Where was the horrible sales cannibalization there? No, Apple grew TOTAL sales.

And in the long run, Apple cannot act completely independently of the market. There is still competition you know, and Apple has done a great job of leading it. In the long run, why wouldn't Apple have a mobile device with wifi, that doesn't force you to sign a 2-year cell contract? iPhone sales cannibalization, by itself, is an illogical argument against Apple releasing (now or later) other mobile devices with wifi.

Because they have positioned the iPhone as their top gadget, that's why. The ipods will slowly over the next few updates be positioned as a entry device as more and more adults and young adults get an iPhone. That is Apple's plan, that the iPhone will replace the iPod. Convergence is the future, not standalone music playing devices.

The ipod won't ever compete with the iPhone, instead it will transgress as the player people buy who can't afford an iPhone or a different music phone. Or, it will be for children or elderly who have no need for a higher end convergence device.

The iPod landscape is changing.

 

[i0Nic]

LOL. No, Marketing 101 is addressing the needs of your customers in the most satisfactory and effective way possible. That will net you more profit in the long run than trying to force people to buy 2 devices when 1 would actually suffice. Because your competition is going to try to fill that gap even if you don't.

The better you widget, the more you'll sell.

(better doesn't automatically mean more features, as some may or may not be deemed unnecessary by the market. But that wasn't what your post was about. Your post already assumed that the feature was needed, hence the opportunity to force customers to buy a second product.)

Yes, it is addressing the needs of your customers. Apple customers want a widescreen iPod with a full screen interface. That is the MAIN feature they want.

That is what Apple will give them.

Some also want wifi, to be able to surf the net, check mail etc. However, this is an elite class of consumer that will most likely buy an iPhone eventually anyway. Therefore, Apple won't try to confuse the vast majority of consumers between the iPhone and iPod. They will keep things simple by offering a wifi enabled iPhone and a music/video playing iPod.

edit: It's just like the elite consumer group who want a smaller/lighter macbook pro. The reason it doesn't exist is because Apple want to simplify their product line. Want a pro machine? Buy a macbook pro. Want a smaller machine? Buy a macbook.
Same with people wanting a Mac tower.

These things don't happen for a reason, even though there is a subset of customers who are interested.