The Dark Side of Apple, Do You Contribute?

[sumone]

Just read this article online

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/darker-side-apple-human-cost-iproducts-164412176.html

To sum it up many workers at Foxconn experience horrible work conditions as a result of trying to complete demand for various different tech devices by companies like HP, Nokia and Apple. In order to reduce the stress that's put on workers, monologist Mike Daisey, suggested that consumers NOT update devices as frequently. Thoughts?

 

[miles01110]

To sum it up many workers in third-world countries experience horrible work conditions as a result of trying to complete demand for various different products for first-world businesses.

Fixed that for you. Apple isn't alone.

 

[sumone]

Fixed that for you. Apple isn't alone.

I never said Apple was alone I even stated some of the other companies mentioned that employed Foxconn.

 

[dukebound85]

Yup and I don't lose sleep over it

 

[wrinkster22]

I know apple factories are not pleasant but no other company treats their employees well either, I think as consumers we need to make the choice of buying things made in North America at a higher price vs. things made in China at a lower price. With the costs of many things going up I do not think we as consumers can afford higher costs. I, purposely try to buy things made in Canada or USA. We are all to blame at this mess- consumers wanting cheap goods, Wal Mart and other big box stores importing things, and the chinese governments openness to these horrible factories.
Also manufacturing of goods in china dwindles the jobs in America.
Also stuff made here lasts longer and is better quality.
Another video about foxconn: go to youtube and search foxconn- the first one foxconn lies.

 

[Apple OC]

not much the consumer can do when the products they want are produced under these terms ... all computers are made this way

 

[sumone]

I think as consumers we need to make the choice of buying things made in North America at a higher price vs. things made in China at a lower price. With the costs of many things going up I do not think we as consumers can afford higher costs.

Hypothetically speaking, say that we as consumers refused to buy products that were made under these conditions. As you predicted the result would be that the prices would go up but say consumers refused to pay the higher prices. Something would have to give, so what would be the result? Would the companies just go out of business? Or would the companies be willing to take a hit like instead of bringing in over 50% profits on each iPhone sold Apple would settle for less?

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not much the consumer can do when the products they want are produced under these terms ... all computers are made this way

Well according to the article you could help out by not buying a product as soon as a new one comes out. Well i'm not entirely certain the impression that I got was that the conditions are especially harsh because the company is trying to meet increasing demand. If people didn't swarm to buy the newest product every time they are released the demand for products wouldn't be as high and the workers would not be worked as hard.

 

[velocityg4]

Isn't replacing "When the next on comes out." and "is no longer current" the same thing?

I replace mine when it is no longer performs the tasks I want it to or need it to perform. If it has failed I replace it if the cost to benefit ration of a new model outweighs the cost to benefit ratio of repairing it.

Though I generally buy used products at a heavy discount over new. Excepting those where age or wear and tear make a huge difference in useful life vs cost. Or were used has little cost benefit over new.

Anything heavy duty and mechanical I definitely buy used. That way I can buy something that is top of the line and built in the USA or other first world nation. Rather than some cheap POS built in China. I'll take my Kirby vacuum and Kitchen Aid Pro Series mixer over something cheap built in China. They'll withstand more use and abuse plus have a much longer overall lifespan.

Sure some well made stuff can come from China. When the company contracting insists on the factory to meet stringent quality standards. But they are usually more interested in price over quality.

 

[sumone]

Isn't replacing "When the next on comes out." and "is no longer current" the same thing?

Yes and No. I realized that after I posted it I meant after it dies or is no longer up-to-date as in its so old you can no longer perform the tasks you require of it. But I didn't see how to edit the poll choices.

 

[Apple OC]

Well according to the article you could help out by not buying a product as soon as a new one comes out. Well i'm not entirely certain the impression that I got was that the conditions are especially harsh because the company is trying to meet increasing demand. If people didn't swarm to buy the newest product every time they are released the demand for products wouldn't be as high and the workers would not be worked as hard.

only a small percentage runs out to get the latest ... the Apple line-ups to get the latest do not represent the core of Apple users ... most are happy with what they have.

 

[boss.king]

What if my answer is neither of those two options?

 

[rdowns]

If people didn't swarm to buy the newest product every time they are released the demand for products wouldn't be as high and the workers would not be worked as hard.

Oh really? So Foxconn would just let them work less if demand for Apple products were lower and not move them to a Nokia or HP or Dell line.

 

[sumone]

only a small percentage runs out to get the latest ... the Apple line-ups to get the latest do not represent the core of Apple users ... most are happy with what they have.

Well I don't really have the stats one way or the other which is part of the reason why I included the poll. But the argument made in the article was that buying less would help reduce the stress put on the workers whether this is 100% true or not has yet to be proven but I do believe it is true to some extent.

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What if my answer is neither of those two options?

Feel free to add your answer in a post.

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Oh really? So Foxconn would just let them work less if demand for Apple products were lower and not move them to a Nokia or HP or Dell line.

I think you are looking at this far too subjectively. If demand for all products were reduced not just Apple. However, I think reduced demand for Apple products alone would make a significant impact considering that you don't see the sort of lines for new products when Nokia or HP releases something (save the HP TouchPad firesale).

 

[iJohnHenry]

What if my answer is neither of those two options?

Right.

I don't just jump to the newest flavour, nor do I wait 'till my previous device dies an unexpected death.

 

[Aldaris]

Oh really? So Foxconn would just let them work less if demand for Apple products were lower and not move them to a Nokia or HP or Dell line.

Totally, push out as much product to bring in as much revenue as you can. I think the percentage of 'rich boys' buying the latest and greatest isn't as big as people think. Remember also your on a Mac enthusiast website so your data can be torqued a little, although not sure which way

 

[boss.king]

Ok. Well it depends.
Sometimes I get the newest thing out. Sometimes I wait til my device has died. Sometimes I buy something just cos I feel like an upgrade. Sometimes I buy something new and then sell it and keep the old one.

For the most part I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle of those two options.

 

[roadbloc]

The factories problem. Not Apple's.

 

[snberk103]

.... choice of buying things made in North America at a higher price vs. things made in China at a lower price. ... We are all to blame at this mess- consumers wanting cheap goods, Wal Mart and other big box stores importing things, ....

As a Canadian, and fellow North American, I can appreciate your sentiments. However, the Europeans and other 1st world countries may not want to pay more for products that don't benefit them.

Hypothetically speaking, say that we as consumers refused to buy products that were made under these conditions. ...

I think what many people have missed is that consumers have already voted. They voted for being able to buy "cheap". The vast majority of American consumers, regardless of what they say on polls, base the majority of their purchasing decisions on price. Period. Apple, as successful as they are, actually proves the point. Despite Macs having the best consumer reviews in the industry, and the best customer service, and the best consumer reputation.... Apple has only captured a small fraction of the market. It's the lucrative fraction, obviously, but they are not - nor does Apple need to - sell to the mass market.

Apple may be selling a ton of phones - but again, despite all the accolades - they've only just cracked 10% of mobile phone usage in the USA, arguably their strongest market. It's only when you look at the niche smart phone market that Apple has captured a large market share, at over 25%.

Apple doesn't care. There are people who purchase based on price, and there are people who will spend considerable more to get something with the features they need. It's this second group that Apple sells to... the ones who don't buy based solely on price.

That said, Apple is duty bound to make money for their shareholders. By law. This means that they look for the most efficient way to build their products. Which often means paying for labour in low labour wage cost countries. The conditions are no worse in China today than they were in the USA in the late 1800s and early 1900s. At that time the USA went through a bunch of labour reforms that banned child labour and instituted workplace safety, limited working hours, etc etc. We are starting to see the same thing happen in China.

 

[stevensr123]

These countries don't have welfare systems, healthcare systems etc do they? I would imagine if everyone boycotted the companies, jobs would be lost , and they would have to beg in the street, look for work that would probably pay less etc.


I know that is what it was like in thailand when i went, I would never pay for sex, but i was talking to a thai friend of mine and his view point was, if there wasn't any western men coming and doing the "business" these girls would likely get into "crime" , have to work in farms for a lot less money, and there villages (they send most of their money back to their families ) would suffer greatly.

And this is my/his view point. It's all fine and dandy saying all this hypocritical stuff, and looking down on there way of life etc when you are in the safety of a nice, cosy house, with tons of money etc

What i find more disgusting is, westerners complaining about it, even though they have all these goods , cloths, electronics, from the very same place they are "bashing".


And you can't blame demand, because a demand for something has always been there, from the dawn of time, and that will never change.

 

[appleguy123]

I update my iPhones and iPads on release day, but I keep my Macs for a few years.

 

[iJohnHenry]

That said, Apple is duty bound to make money for their shareholders.

What i find more disgusting is, westerners complaining about it, even though they have all these goods , cloths, electronics, from the very same place they are "bashing".

I UP'ed both your posts, because you are both correct in your interpretation of the state of things.

What is the answer? Well I would guess profit, without regard for consequences, is the main problem. Everyone wants something for nothing, or as close to that as they can achieve. Conscience seems to be a thing for wimps.

 

[chrono1081]

Just read this article online

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/darker-side-apple-human-cost-iproducts-164412176.html

To sum it up many workers at Foxconn experience horrible work conditions as a result of trying to complete demand for various different tech devices by companies like HP, Nokia and Apple. In order to reduce the stress that's put on workers, monologist Mike Daisey, suggested that consumers NOT update devices as frequently. Thoughts?

Silly idea. Workers can leave Foxconn when they want, its not like they are slaves there, they are paid. Just because it looks bad from our standards doesn't mean its bad by China's standards.

I am all for excellent working conditions, great pay, etc, but that doesn't happen in the real world unfortunately. Not to mention this Foxconn thing has been beaten to death. Apple is not the only company by a longshot that uses Foxconn. Apple also conducts investigations and publishes a report every 6 months or a year, I forget which on their findings.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Just read this article online

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/darker-side-apple-human-cost-iproducts-164412176.html

To sum it up many workers at Foxconn experience horrible work conditions as a result of trying to complete demand for various different tech devices by companies like HP, Nokia and Apple. In order to reduce the stress that's put on workers, monologist Mike Daisey, suggested that consumers NOT update devices as frequently. Thoughts?

How about people hold Foxconn's management accountable instead of the company that contracts them out?

That company was treating employees like crap way back before they even won the Apple contract. Their corporate culture sucks

 

[Pixellated]

They are not forced to work at Foxconn, are they? The reality is Foxconn probably offers better pay (this is relative, remember), or there are no other jobs.

 

[Shrink]

I UP'ed both your posts, because you are both correct in your interpretation of the state of things.

What is the answer? Well I would guess profit, without regard for consequences, is the main problem. Everyone wants something for nothing, or as close to that as they can achieve. Conscience seems to be a thing for wimps.

Well said.

It seems that when someone posts emphasizing conscience or ethics, there are a goodly number of down votes and posts demeaning the poster as "self righteous".

To be fair, no all expressions of conscience are denigrated, but enough to be disturbing.