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Huntn

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
May 5, 2008
24,774
27,849
The Misty Mountains
Two years ago my 91 (at the time) Dad living in Winterhaven Florida wanted to move into a senior living facility. Me and my brother went down to help,with decision making. Ultimately he decided that he was going to stay home until he dropped. Fine and dandy if you actually drop, but what happens if you move into the realm of needed assisted living?

Two years later, once again he is thinking about moving to senior living. He wants to but gets overwhelmed at the prospect and then regresses just wanting to stay home... more to come.
 
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Two years ago my 91 (at the time) Dad living in Winterhaven Florida wanted to move into a senior living facility. Me and my brother went down to help,with decision making. Ultimately he decided that he was going to stay home until he dropped. Fine and dandy if you actually drop, but what happens if you move into the realm of needed assisted living?

Two years later, once again he is thinking about moving to senior living. He wants to but gets overwhelmed at the prospect and then regresses just wanting to stay home... more to come.

I've penned a few thoughts - for, this is a topic close to my heart and to my lived experience - on TA.
 
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Uprooting yourself when you (probably) have long-established routines and home connections must be very hard, especially for anyone who isn't sure it's absolutely necessary... yet.

Does your Dad have a social circle or activities away from home? Perhaps there's a way to get him connected to people or activities at a senior living community short of moving there. A way to become more familiar and comfortable with that community.

Does he have the savings+insurance for at-home care, if and when the need arises? Staying at home may be his real preference, which is practical only if it's affordable. That may require a frank but caring talk.
 
Does he have the savings+insurance for at-home care, if and when the need arises? Staying at home may be his real preference, which is practical only if it's affordable. That may require a frank but caring talk.

My parents lawyer told them to just stay in their home. Bad advice. At the point that home care becomes necessary it eventually becomes prohibitively expensive. For 24 x 7 care back then it was $20 an hour, almost $15K a month. The caregiver wasn't taking much of that $20 home so the quality of care was highly variable. Given the poor lawyer advice moving the parent to assisted living was like pulling teeth. You are lucky that he is expressing interest in the idea. Sounds like he could participate somewhat in process. Might not be so in the future.
 
a prolonged end of life situation is rough.
for the dilligent considerate person trying to make a decison, there is no right/wrong answer.


the drugs required at the total near end are powerful. You may not have the permissions or skill to administer the drugs. So the live at home care will terminate. the American health care, being what it is, even a 1 month stay at a hosptice care faciliyt under intense drug administration will cost $10,000

i would talk to your lawyer frined about hiding assets. I think there is a 4year time out period there even tho hedden assets can be discovered and applyed to hpopital costs.
 
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Two years ago my 91 (at the time) Dad living in Winterhaven Florida wanted to move into a senior living facility. Me and my brother went down to help,with decision making. Ultimately he decided that he was going to stay home until he dropped. Fine and dandy if you actually drop, but what happens if you move into the realm of needed assisted living?

Two years later, once again he is thinking about moving to senior living. He wants to but gets overwhelmed at the prospect and then regresses just wanting to stay home... more to come.
He will need something to keep in engaged, especially other people, easily accessible.

And have him write or record memories, and watch old home movies or albums.
 
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He will need something to keep in engaged, especially other people, easily accessible.

And have him write or record memories, and watch old home movies or albums.

When my grandfather was getting up in years, my dad tried getting him to write down or record stories but he wouldn't really take to it.

I took a different approach. When I'd go over to visit, I'd bring the conversation around to things that I knew would trigger his stories. About the time one would start, I'd just say something like "I love listening to your stories-do you mind if I record this one?" and then pull out my phone and start. At first he'd clam up a bit, but I'd prod him a bit with some things I remembered about a particular story(Didn't you say you were doing X?) or sometimes just outright ask him about a different one(Didn't you say your dad got drunk one Christmas day and flipped the Model T with you and Uncle Robert in the back seat going around that curve on Bald Knob Road?-and yes that one did happen-I have a couple of tellings of that). Pretty soon he'd forget I was recording and two hours later I'd have half a dozen of his stories as one lead to another. I have many duplicates, and over the year or so I did this it's amazing how some of them grew after the 5th telling or so I have recorded(never mind how they'd changed as I'd been growing up) and also heard many new ones that I hadn't heard before. My dad was usually with me when I was doing this, and a few came out that my dad hadn't heard. Of course not all were happy or fun-there were some truly depressing stories in there-but they also shaped his life.

My old iPhone 4s is in safe storage because it was what I recorded all of those on-as voice memos-and I HAVE to get them off of there at some point soon. It's not often that something, whether an electronic device or a file-is irreplaceabe, but this is one of those times.
 
My old iPhone 4s is in safe storage because it was what I recorded all of those on-as voice memos-and I HAVE to get them off of there at some point soon. It's not often that something, whether an electronic device or a file-is irreplaceabe, but this is one of those times.
Take you about 30 min, do eeeet!

And them load to a safe place, multiple copies.
(need to do same! LOL)
 
I'm coming up to something similar. I spent 2 weeks out of January and February having to take care of my father who started having trouble breathing after being diagnosed with congestive heart failure in November. When he got to the hospital and they went to take a scan of his heart and lungs for breathing, he coded for around 8-12 seconds. They were able to bring him back, but still. He already had had a kidney removed from having a tumor in it roughly 15 years ago, and was on anticoagulants so it's safe to say that he's been through the wars.

This conversation came up with him and is starting to come up again even though he's made the decision for now to stay at home. One thing that the elderly (and quite frankly, most people in general) never want to talk about or discuss are any end-of-life decisions. Such with my father, he didn't have any final paperwork set up for anything at all. What complicates this also is the fact that he owns land by inheritance (technically his father/my grandfather owns the land, but he and my father have the same name.. Jr./Sr., etc.), as well as share in ownership of land with his sisters. So you can see how all of this really complicates things... and to top it off, I'm his only child, so I basically am involved, regardless.

Back to those decisions. If something happened to him, unless any paperwork were signed, everything would go to the state and argued in court with probate. So what I did (in very short order and not getting a lawyer involved) was to get paperwork signed and notarized for the following:
  • Medical Power of Attorney. This gives me the authority to make any medical-related decisions, including withdrawing or withholding any life supporting treatment. Without that, it would fall to next of kin, which would be his sisters, not me.
  • Durable Financial Power of Attorney. This allows me to make decisions on any financial arrangements or transactions made on behalf of him. While for his accounts I am listed as a beneficiary, I wouldn't be able to do anything with those accounts until he's gone; that doesn't mean that next of kin (his sisters) couldn't come in and drain his accounts before I get access to them before he's gone. In this case, now I have the ability to manage it on his behalf, should he become incapacitated.

    Also, this is a DURABLE power of attorney. The difference between normal financial and durable financial, is that the regular financial power of attorney could be changed at any point, without any say from me, as well as can take effect on an arbitrary date set in the document for it, while a durable POA takes effect upon creation of the document.
  • Real Estate Power of Attorney. Same as the above, but involves any transactions made on land. I can handle that on his behalf.
  • Revocable Living Trust. This is in lieu of any Will, which would get lawyers and probate involved. The Living Trust is also something that can be changed and modified at any time. This is similar to the Will, as the Grantor can designate any beneficiary they want, as well as exclude anyone they want to benefit from the Trust being set up.
  • Pre-Need. Should the worst happen (let's hope it doesn't), someone will have to take care of final arrangements (burial, cremation, etc.) If it's a burial, obviously the plot will need to be purchased, the casket, etc. Most burial homes will want that paid all up front if the person is already deceased. However, if taken care of beforehand (pre-need), the person can make payment arrangements on all of it and pay as they go. The other option is cremation, which could be as cheap as $500.. but I don't think people would want something as simple as that, unless they weren't prepared for it.

    My grandfather died roughly 20 years ago from a massive heart attack brought on by congestive heart failure that he didn't know he had. For his plot, casket, and funeral, it was $7000-$8000, that had to be paid all up front. Immediately after that, my grandmother got hold of the funeral home and talked about pre-need. She got that set up, got what she wanted, and paid on it for the next 5 years. She has it completely paid off now to where no-one needs to worry about what to do with her when/if she passes. She'll be 91 this year. My father now has this set up, as all of that would fall on me to handle, and I wouldn't be able to access his funds to pay for it, as none of that would be released until a death certificate is signed and the body handed over.
This basically got everything set up for my father in case the worst happens, because should any assisted living place he gets put into decides to come after him or something for payment, they would have to go through me for any and all transactions made on my father's behalf.

Now, I don't know if the OP has anything set up, or if it has even been discussed, but it would definitely be worth getting these in order sooner rather than later. I was able to find the papers online (the place I went to had a 30-day trial, so I was able to sign up and print, and was thinking of canceling, but decided not to because I could use them as well.. it's only $40, and gets you access to paperwork for every state and territory in the US), plus the cost of having a notary sign and stamp them. But having that paperwork in order is essential, especially since our generation is getting to the age where we have to start thinking about it, as s****y as it sounds.. 😖😢

BL.
 
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Sounds like all the right documents, other than putting all assets into a trust. Personally I got a lawyer involved to be absolutely sure I wasn't missing something.
 
I lived in Toronto for 12 years, the Canadian government has similar programs.

I am an elderly parent too, got to start to get my EOL paperwork and affairs in order too. My next decision is when do I retire my sport touring motorcycle (Avatar) :) Good thread, will have re-read often before I forget.
 
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My Dad (93) who lives in Central Florida, is still wrestling/avoiding a decision to move to a senior/assisted living facility. So far he has not been able to pry himself out of independent living, but he‘s getting shaky. He‘s backed out 2 times to come to my city, Houston, and check out nearby facilities. So now he’s thinking about it again. Not holding my breath… 👀
 
My Dad (93) who lives in Central Florida, is still wrestling/avoiding a decision to move to a senior/assisted living facility. So far he has not been able to pry himself out of independent living, but he‘s getting shaky. He‘s backed out 2 times to come to my city, Houston, and check out nearby facilities. So now he’s thinking about it again. Not holding my breath… 👀
put yourself in his shoes, this is NOT an easy decision one way or another.
like many others I am NOT interested in making it to that point, it has to be scary AF to reach that point where you are just waiting to croak and I think I rather go out my way.
 
put yourself in his shoes, this is NOT an easy decision one way or another.
like many others I am NOT interested in making it to that point, it has to be scary AF to reach that point where you are just waiting to croak and I think I rather go out my way.
Agreed.

Completely agreed.

So, completely agreed.

My mother would have hated - as would I, I'd prefer some sort of death, demise, departure - to have been placed in such a home; it would have destroyed her, devastated her, and broken her heart, she would have felt that we had abandoned her, and we could never have done it - and, fortunately, we were in a position where we never had to contemplate - let alone actually carry out - such a thing.
 
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Not a chance I’m going into a home. It’s the last thing I’d want.
life has a funny way of throwing endless curveballs at you, NONE of us want to reach the point where we go #2 at 8am but wake up at 9.
life keeps you "happy/distracted" enough that you don't notice your own body becoming the prison your mind does not deserve, we look forward to time with our kids/grandkids etc, we still long to be with our loved ones even if briefly as they go on their own and make their own lives, we strive to be included as much as possible w/o being a nuisance to them, it is very easy to want to leave earth on our terms while we have the strength to do so but those happy moments even if brief keeps us distracted from the fact our degrading bodies are turning us into walking vegetables, by a certain point you realize that you need to figure out a way to end things that are in a way suitable for everyone so they can move on, ending your own life on your terms is STILL frowned upon and the impact it leaves for our kids is something that I don't think they could handle properly. now an accident , say while on your motorcycle and missing a turn is something they could understand................ donate my body to science so that women can point & giggle and say "I don't know, he could have been a male but it's so small I can't tell..........."...... anyways. chuck my body for science to blow it up and experiment as they wish as I don't want my kids dealing with any bills to bury me.
 
life has a funny way of throwing endless curveballs at you, NONE of us want to reach the point where we go #2 at 8am but wake up at 9.
life keeps you "happy/distracted" enough that you don't notice your own body becoming the prison your mind does not deserve, we look forward to time with our kids/grandkids etc, we still long to be with our loved ones even if briefly as they go on their own and make their own lives, we strive to be included as much as possible w/o being a nuisance to them, it is very easy to want to leave earth on our terms while we have the strength to do so but those happy moments even if brief keeps us distracted from the fact our degrading bodies are turning us into walking vegetables, by a certain point you realize that you need to figure out a way to end things that are in a way suitable for everyone so they can move on, ending your own life on your terms is STILL frowned upon and the impact it leaves for our kids is something that I don't think they could handle properly. now an accident , say while on your motorcycle and missing a turn is something they could understand................ donate my body to science so that women can point & giggle and say "I don't know, he could have been a male but it's so small I can't tell..........."...... anyways. chuck my body for science to blow it up and experiment as they wish as I don't want my kids dealing with any bills to bury me.
No kids left here. So when Mrs AFB goes, I’ll not be long behind.
 
life has a funny way of throwing endless curveballs at you, NONE of us want to reach the point where we go #2 at 8am but wake up at 9.
life keeps you "happy/distracted" enough that you don't notice your own body becoming the prison your mind does not deserve, we look forward to time with our kids/grandkids etc, we still long to be with our loved ones even if briefly as they go on their own and make their own lives, we strive to be included as much as possible w/o being a nuisance to them, it is very easy to want to leave earth on our terms while we have the strength to do so but those happy moments even if brief keeps us distracted from the fact our degrading bodies are turning us into walking vegetables, by a certain point you realize that you need to figure out a way to end things that are in a way suitable for everyone so they can move on, ending your own life on your terms is STILL frowned upon and the impact it leaves for our kids is something that I don't think they could handle properly. now an accident , say while on your motorcycle and missing a turn is something they could understand................ donate my body to science so that women can point & giggle and say "I don't know, he could have been a male but it's so small I can't tell..........."...... anyways. chuck my body for science to blow it up and experiment as they wish as I don't want my kids dealing with any bills to bury me.

The bold is the reason why the wife talked to me about pre-need, so I could relay that to my father. That way he can make payments on what he wants to do instead of me having to not only foot the bill for it, but also having to deal with the cost of that all being UP FRONT, so it isn't a huge chunk coming out of the kids' bills.

My grandmother not only has pre-need set up, and not only is it completely paid off, but she had it paid off some 25-30 years ago, so nothing has to be arranged or paid for when she goes; it is all completely taken care of.

All morbid thoughts aside for this: if you start on it now, and let's say it runs you $6000 (nice round figure)... at $60/month, you'll be paid off in a little over 8 years; at $100/month, you're done in 5 years. Plot, coffin, the entire lot, depending on what you want to do. Now yes, we don't want to think about that, because, well, who does... but it's one of those things where the earlier we start, the better.

I still haven't set up anything for me, because I plan on living forever. 😁 But seriously.. It's hard to think about it, as our parents don't want to think about it either. In fact, most never do, which is why it becomes such a 1-shot financial burden when it happens..

BL.
 
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