The End Of TenFourFox

[Dronecatcher]

The end of TenFourFox and what I've learned from it

Now that I have your attention. I've been mulling TenFourFox's future for awhile now in light of certain feature needs that are far bigger ...

tenfourfox.blogspot.com

Inevitable I guess. But I'm thankful he's done so much to keep the platform alive all these years.

 

[Amethyst1]

Checking date - no, it's not April 1st - noooooooo...

 

[RogerWilco6502]

So, what's next for Tiger in terms of up-to-date web browsers do you think?

 

[MysticCow]

It isn't the end as much as we're seeing the brick wall we're going to crash into...and then the end! What we'll see, if I'm reading correctly, will be Security Release Series, meaning we're only going to see critical potholes patched in our very bumpy road of PowerPC web browsing. PLUS, you have to compile on your own now or hope someone else does.

Classilla will also get a long-overdue final update. This is good, as we have someone here in the MR PPC forum working on a Classilla-based browser.

Neither have done the crash into the brick wall, but said wall IS about 1.5 feet (45.72 cm) away from your car running at 45 MPH (72 KPH)...I mean, we ARE going to crash and very soon, but we have just a split second left.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

So, what's next for Tiger in terms of up-to-date web browsers do you think?

Probably not anything, unfortunately. It'll be TenFourFox with whatever security patches the community does decide to backport. TenFourFox was always an incredible feat, given how insanely complicated browsers are today. Massive props to Cameron for maintaining it for years.

 

[z970]

We knew this day would come, and it was certainly a good run. Hats off to Mr. Cameron Kaiser for not only undertaking a monumental task that no one else would, but even going above and beyond to sustain it for another whopping 11 years(!). His great work will be embedded in history as one of the few lifelines generously given to an otherwise abandoned architecture, and as a gold mine of data for downstream projects to build off of and add to for their own retro environments as well.

TenFourFox will be missed, but its legacy lives on.

salutes

@RogerWilco6502 Outside of @alex_free's great port of Links2, I wouldn't hold my breath for new browsers. Even though Tiger (and by extension Leopard) can claim a dedicated community of resilient software developers, it remains a 16-year-old OS with increasingly strict limitations as it and modern compiler / security standards continue to grow farther apart. One day in the future, Roytam1 will probably call it quits too, and Windows XP will (finally) find itself in the exact same situation.

Some things are simply inevitable...

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Probably not anything, unfortunately. It'll be TenFourFox with whatever security patches the community does decide to backport. TenFourFox was always an incredible feat, given how insanely complicated browsers are today. Massive props to Cameron for maintaining it for years.

@RogerWilco6502 Outside of @alex_free's great port of Links2, I wouldn't hold my breath for new browsers. Even though Tiger (and by extension Leopard) can claim a dedicated community of resilient software developers, it remains a 16-year-old OS with increasingly strict limitations as it and modern compiler / security standards continue to grow farther apart. One day in the future, Roytam1 will probably call it quits too, and Windows XP will (finally) find itself in the exact same situation.

Some things are simply inevitable...

Ah, I see what you mean. It's too bad really.

At least we have proxies like BrowseService that we can use, so even when TFF becomes outdated in terms of protocols and encryption we can still use web browsing on PPC OS X.

It's been a good run, I am immensely thankful for all the effort Cameron Kaiser has put forth in all of his projects. His web pages have served a wealth of information that helped me early-on in my experience with PPC Macs. His contributions won't be forgotten.

Maybe I can find the time to learn to do things similar to what he did, as I'd like to contribute to the community in a more meaningful way. The only issue is I know nearly nothing about programming and other things that would make for good contributions in all honesty.

 

[repairedCheese]

Frankly, I wish I was surprised. Realistically is was only a matter of time before this happened, and once it was clear that bringing Firefox to PPC MacOS wasn't going to be a matter of a straight port, the righting was already on the wall. The SSL Apocalypse was just another piece of that writing on that wall, too.

So, if anything, we need to thank Cameron for supporting this project for as long as he did. Given what the engine is based on, it was always going to start breaking at some point. We're all better off to know that he's ending mainline support, rather than have him just vanish.

And while we're at it, an update to Classilla is absolutely welcome.

I do feel this is a probably a good and clear sign that it's time to move forward if you use a PowerPC Mac as a main computer. That doesn't mean it all suddenly becomes useless, or that you aren't going to be able to browse the internet tomorrow, but it's just going to get worse from here.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

The final official release of Classilla

An apology is owed to the classic Mac users who depend on Classilla as the only vaguely recent browser on Mac OS 9 (and 8.6). I've lately re...

oldvcr.blogspot.com

Similar announcement for Classilla.

 

[Slix]

Very sad to hear, but I respect his decision to stop at this point. It is hard work maintaining a project like this mostly on your own. I think his last paragraph sums it up well, TFF has given a much longer lifespan to many old machines than anyone could have expected, and I am grateful for that. Being able to use the "modern web" on such old hardware today is remarkable.

As others here have mentioned, it's not like TenFourFox will be unusable tomorrow, but I hope we can find a forward thinking solution so our old Macs can continue to remain useful. I know that I'll still be using it even after support officially ends, since much of the web I use isn't based on too many modern standards, so a lot of it still works on even older versions and other browsers.

Note for anyone making a website: Make it as modern as you can, but don't push tons of useless code onto it that requires a cutting edge browser. Your users will thank you.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Note for anyone making a website: Make it as modern as you can, but don't push tons of useless code onto it that requires a cutting edge browser. Your users will thank you.

Agreed! This doesn't just go for vintage browsers and computers, either. The less overhead you have from additional code, the more usable the site will be

 

[MacFoxG4]

It is sad to see TFF go, but I understand why he is doing this. I have really enjoyed using TFF and will continue to do so even after support ends for as long as I can. My PPC Macs may not be my daily drivers, but I enjoy using them when I can and TFF is one of the applications I use the most. I think TFF was the first application I ever downloaded on my 1.5ghz Sawtooth. I had heard about TFF on YouTube and decided to check it out. I am grateful to Cameron Kaiser for making this browser.

 

[iamMacPerson]

I’m rarely on the vintage forum anymore but I’ve chatted with Cameron via PM before on other sites and he’s always been an awesome dude. I’m sad to see TFF and CZ come to an end, but I don’t blame him at all.

For security reasons I really never let any of my old machines online any more. It was always neat to push machines to their edge and get them online, but I think even basic Android phones now can load websites faster and more reliably than any PPC machine can. I appreciate that it was done to squeeze the last few drops out of PPC Macs but I think in the last couple years it’s become only hobbyists using TFF and CZ. That makes it even more sad reading about the sometimes nasty messages he’d get as bug reports, when you realize these are follow hobbyists with the same interest. I would think they would ‘get’ it.

I wish nothing but the best for Cameron, and I appreciate all the work he did.

 

[eyoungren]

Count me in as one that appreciated Kaiser's work. I can remember expecting to update to Firefox 4 only to find out they weren''t releasing a PowerPC version. That started a whole series of exploration with other browsers (Flock was particularly a burden on PowerPC) but running across T4Fx was a godsend.

Unfortunately, like a lot of things in life, at some point it's time to move on. I can still find other uses for my old PowerPC Macs but it's getting harder to justify their use even to myself.

It was a great run and I will always remember it kindly.

 

[Strategia]

A sad day. Many thanks to Cameron Kaiser who kept PowerPC kicking and screaming into the modern age with TenFourFox. His determination and expertise has proven to be a testament to his character and capabilities, but a single developer cannot resist forever against the increasing bloat the internet seems to offer nowadays.

It is a shame to see machines designed to use the internet lose the ability to do so, but I suppose this is the end of practical usage online with PPC Macs. There is Linux, but unfortunately it is currently too impractical to install and use for the majority; tenfold more so compared to an Intel Mac. Along with the promised infrequent security updates, I wonder if there can be a community effort to continue supporting TenFourFox - at least on a security basis. Of course, PPC Macs still have immeasurable capabilities in offline tasks - that will never change.

Thank you, Cameron Kaiser.

 

[eyoungren]

I wonder if there can be a community effort to continue supporting TenFourFox - at least on a security basis.

I may be wrong, but I rather doubt anyone will pick up the torch. Too many of us own early Intel Macs and the stubborn holdouts are those whose need for PowerPC are because of a particular app or because their use case doesn't involve the internet.

This doesn't preclude someone from trying in the future though. After all, there is an active Mac Classic forum on Reddit. I just don't think we've hit the classic age level yet, we're still just 'old'.

 

[yanksrock100]

It was a great ride. It's awesome that it was maintained so long, really.

 

[Macbookprodude]

The end of TenFourFox and what I've learned from it

Now that I have your attention. I've been mulling TenFourFox's future for awhile now in light of certain feature needs that are far bigger ...

tenfourfox.blogspot.com

Inevitable I guess. But I'm thankful he's done so much to keep the platform alive all these years.

I knew this day would come sooner than later. This is the end of the PowerPC as we know it... I can see past September www.wikipedia.org using tenfourfox - and the stupid ssl error will appear and that is the day I take my PPC macs and get rid of them. Unless, someone here can continue to allow tenfourfox to prevent SSL crap errors. I really hate all this security who needs it ? No one... I will start running WEP from now on.. it seems I want REVENGE on google, mozilla, and everything else that has made our lives HORRIBLE and Miserable.

 

[Macbookprodude]

So, what's next for Tiger in terms of up-to-date web browsers do you think?

NOTHING ! End of the road. M1 HAS BEATEN US.

 

[Macbookprodude]

It isn't the end as much as we're seeing the brick wall we're going to crash into...and then the end! What we'll see, if I'm reading correctly, will be Security Release Series, meaning we're only going to see critical potholes patched in our very bumpy road of PowerPC web browsing. PLUS, you have to compile on your own now or hope someone else does.

Classilla will also get a long-overdue final update. This is good, as we have someone here in the MR PPC forum working on a Classilla-based browser.

Neither have done the crash into the brick wall, but said wall IS about 1.5 feet (45.72 cm) away from your car running at 45 MPH (72 KPH)...I mean, we ARE going to crash and very soon, but we have just a split second left.

Lets all admit to ourselves.. ITS OVER.. How much longer can we keep the torch lit before M1 destroys us ? I think i am going to throw up after I just read this.. and I just spent 350.00 on a new Titanium G4 1ghz DUE TO a bad speaker.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Frankly, I wish I was surprised. Realistically is was only a matter of time before this happened, and once it was clear that bringing Firefox to PPC MacOS wasn't going to be a matter of a straight port, the righting was already on the wall. The SSL Apocalypse was just another piece of that writing on that wall, too.

So, if anything, we need to thank Cameron for supporting this project for as long as he did. Given what the engine is based on, it was always going to start breaking at some point. We're all better off to know that he's ending mainline support, rather than have him just vanish.

And while we're at it, an update to Classilla is absolutely welcome.

I do feel this is a probably a good and clear sign that it's time to move forward if you use a PowerPC Mac as a main computer. That doesn't mean it all suddenly becomes useless, or that you aren't going to be able to browse the internet tomorrow, but it's just going to get worse from here.

I do feel this is a probably a good and clear sign that it's time to move forward if you use a PowerPC Mac as a main computer. That doesn't mean it all suddenly becomes useless, or that you aren't going to be able to browse the internet tomorrow, but it's just going to get worse from here. - yes it will.. OH YES IT WILL.. BECAUSE WE WILL BE SOON FORCED TO USE M1. WHILE M1 IS NOT A PPC, IT IS THE FUTURE IT SEEMS, BUT M1 DOES NOT MAKE IT A MAC.

 

[chikorita157]

It's not too surprising, but I am impressed that he is able to keep it going it going for this long. Still, even browsing using TenFourFox, the pages load really slow due to modern web being Javascript heavy that web browsing isn't really feasible. But still, vintage machines are still useful for other tasks, which I intended to do with my souped up and upgraded PowerMac G4, mostly for gaming.

 

[Macbookprodude]

It's not too surprising, but I am impressed that he is able to keep it going it going for this long. Still, even browsing using TenFourFox, the pages load really slow due to modern web being Javascript heavy that web browsing isn't really feasible. But still, vintage machines are still useful for other tasks, which I intended to do with my souped up and upgraded PowerMac G4, mostly for gaming.

We didn't need javascript then, why now ??? We need to go back to 2000's web standards.. we don't need javascript..

 

[AL1630]

"All good things must come to an end", as they say. I'm very grateful to Cameron Kaiser for all his work, which has undoubtedly been a major part of keeping PPC alive, especially when he has way more important stuff to do than make a browser for old computers. As others have said, current browser support on an OS released in 2005, especially one where official support is dropped quickly, is a pretty good run. I'm glad that we'll see a Classila update and hopefully that will be a help to the people here working on a revised version.

I'm sure TFF will be somewhat usable for quite a while, much older browsers still kinda work on plenty of sites but a lot just won't load or are super broken. Darn SSL. I hate to be all 'doom and gloom' but IMO this is unfortunately more or less the end of PPC as a viable platform for 'real work' especially with everything moving to web-based platforms. It was already starting to decline as sites got heavier and heavier but after a while it won't just be slow, it'll be unusable. That said, PPC is always fun to play with and get nostalgia value out of and I'm sure the community will stick around for those reasons.

 

[Macbookprodude]

"All good things must come to an end", as they say. I'm very grateful to Cameron Kaiser for all his work, which has undoubtedly been a major part of keeping PPC alive, especially when he has way more important stuff to do than make a browser for old computers. As others have said, current browser support on an OS released in 2005, especially one where official support is dropped quickly, is a pretty good run. I'm glad that we'll see a Classila update and hopefully that will be a help to the people here working on a revised version.

I'm sure TFF will be somewhat usable for quite a while, much older browsers still kinda work on plenty of sites but a lot just won't load or are super broken. Darn SSL. I hate to be all 'doom and gloom' but IMO this is unfortunately more or less the end of PPC as a viable platform for 'real work' especially with everything moving to web-based platforms. It was already starting to decline as sites got heavier and heavier but after a while it won't just be slow, it'll be unusable. That said, PPC is always fun to play with and get nostalgia value out of and I'm sure the community will stick around for those reasons.

With God on your side, you can destroy the evil of Ssl - I MEAN, REALLY WIKIPEDIA DOESN'T NEED A STUPID PIECE OF GARBAGE PROTOCOL SSL. Yes, i am very very angry right now because now these PPC machines are nothing but weights with no life in them. We need browsing HTML.. if those morons with Amigas can still browse the internet and we can't, what does that say ? I hate ssl AND IT HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST.