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The End Of TenFourFox

I think we all should just submit to M1 and pretend its like a PowerPC which it actually is if you think about it - while it isn't really, the fact that Apple has its own chips make it so.. the AIM alliance was just that, an alliance of 3 companies making a chip that really should have destroyed intel forever, but it did not. For years I have wanted to see the complete destruction on x86 and all it brings, all the horror it brings, the UGLY CISC code it brings. M1 should be welcomed it seems.. Apple has finally defeated Intel - we should rejoice, but no.. with the end of TenFourFox very soon very soon going to http://www.wikipedia.org will give us an error and nothing else will let us go to it. Proxy Shmoxy.. we should not have to use a proxy for a stupid encyclopedia.. I am Older than all of you and this hurts me very very much as i HAVE invested 1000's of dollars in PowerPC machines through 2005-and up to now.

I am grateful to Kaiser and if i had 1 MILLION to give him for continuing this, I WOULD.. YES, YOU HEARD ME.. 1 MILLION DOLLARS !!! While Tobias threw in the towel, Kaiser did not and I may just pay him 100.00 dollars a month for his time and this excellent web browser. REJOICE, O CHILDREN OF POWERPC FOR YOUR REDEMPTION FROM SSL HELL IS COMING. No, I think after tenfourfox stops working and we get the SSL can't connect or establish stupid ssl CONNECTION to a simple and stupid web encyclopedia called Wikipedia, WE SHOULD ALL BURY OURSELVES IN SHAME. WE ALLOWED THEM TO DO THIS TO US. WE ALLOWED THEM TO OVERPOWER THE DEMANDS WITH THEIR STUPID SSL which really only belongs on financial and gov't sites.. NOT A STUPID WIKIPEDIA SITE ! I KNOW THERE ARE MANY WHO AGREE WITH ME ON ALL OF THIS.. Maybe I am too extreme, yes, but this is in my nature as an authoritarian leader who hates what they have done to us. Jobs was right, the ENEMY was IBM, but the true enemy was MOZILLA, GOOGLE, AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO SUPPORTS THE DEMISE AND TOTAL ANNIHILATION OF VINTAGE COMPUTERS.

i digress
 
eyoungren said:
I may be wrong, but I rather doubt anyone will pick up the torch. Too many of us own early Intel Macs and the stubborn holdouts are those whose need for PowerPC are because of a particular app or because their use case doesn't involve the internet.

This doesn't preclude someone from trying in the future though. After all, there is an active Mac Classic forum on Reddit. I just don't think we've hit the classic age level yet, we're still just 'old'.
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Its time we embrace our RISC HERITAGE - DESTROY THE INTEL MACS AND USE M1.. That is what the PowerPC God would want all of us to do.
 
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Strategia said:
A sad day. Many thanks to Cameron Kaiser who kept PowerPC kicking and screaming into the modern age with TenFourFox. His determination and expertise has proven to be a testament to his character and capabilities, but a single developer cannot resist forever against the increasing bloat the internet seems to offer nowadays.

It is a shame to see machines designed to use the internet lose the ability to do so, but I suppose this is the end of practical usage online with PPC Macs. There is Linux, but unfortunately it is currently too impractical to install and use for the majority; tenfold more so compared to an Intel Mac. Along with the promised infrequent security updates, I wonder if there can be a community effort to continue supporting TenFourFox - at least on a security basis. Of course, PPC Macs still have immeasurable capabilities in offline tasks - that will never change.

Thank you, Cameron Kaiser.
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Your thoughts above are defeatist at best. you give in to the enemy too much.. WE HAVE THE POWER TO take them all on and destroy them... but you all choose not to. I am by far the oldest of all of you who lived through the PowerPC era with all its greatness and maybe some faults.. but in my eyes, we defeated INTEL.. INTEL is the enemy just as IBM WAS THE ENEMY who betrayed us... WE NEED TO EMBRACE M1 because this is our RISC HERITAGE. Linux would be a great alternative, but even those morons at UBUNTU HATE US(MAY THEY ALL BURN IN HELL FOR THEIR HATE OF PPC) ! Yes, i AM ANGRY - angry because we allowed ourselves to be defeated. I am not giving up.. maybe you all will, but I am not.
 
In tribute to T4Fx…one day in late 2012.

IMG_0036.jpg


One of many Saturday mornings on social media with my coffee that was possible because of Kaiser's work.
 
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Good evening to all my PowerPC Patriots !

It is with great sadness that this day will live in INFAMY.. a day of horror, a day when the enemies of PowerPC took over and made us who we are now, UNITED as one family, and community. Now, it is time to declare ourselves apart of the M1 family - PowerPC is a RISC processor, beloved by many, HATED BY MOST sadly, but with the loss of Classila and TenFourFox, we must be active and always alert to the enemy and what it will due to harm us further. Who is the enemy you may ask ? It is Mozilla, Google and the rest of the SSL keepers who are trying to destroy us and hurt us. WE MUST BE VIGILENT and keep the PowerPC torch alive, otherwise we allowed its destruction. With M1, we can now harness the power of PowerPC through a new RISC incarnation, the ARM processor which finally has DESTROYED CISC forever. Nothing brings me great pleasure in watching INTEL die a slow slow death for all the years it has hurt us PowerPC users.

TenFourFox and Kaiser fought these dark enemies so that we can still use our machines. Now the time has come for the final attack on intel for what it has done to us. I am NOW stating the obvious truth. WE MUST EMBRACE ARM/M1 as its our heritage, our blood and our honor - we must defeat and destroy intel and everyone else who supports SSL and its very sad that SSL needs to be used when going to a stupid www.wikipedia.org - very stupid indeed.. actually, the whole concept of security is flawed and we should also return to a 2000's type of internet immediately with the destruction of INTEL and its dark enemies.

Jobs was right in one thing - IBM WAS THE ENEMY, BUT MOZILLA, AND GOOGLE AND THOSE WHO SUPPORT OUR DEMISE BY SSL GARBAGE will suffer greatly under our unified wrath. NOT EVEN LINUX SUPPORTS US OR LOVES US.. THEY JUST WANT PPC TO DIE AND I CAN SAY TO UBUNTU UP YOURS AND WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER OR LAW DOWN OUR FIGHT...

LONG LIVE POWERPC, G4, G5, G3 !!!!!
 
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MysticCow said:
It isn't the end as much as we're seeing the brick wall we're going to crash into...and then the end! What we'll see, if I'm reading correctly, will be Security Release Series, meaning we're only going to see critical potholes patched in our very bumpy road of PowerPC web browsing. PLUS, you have to compile on your own now or hope someone else does.

Classilla will also get a long-overdue final update. This is good, as we have someone here in the MR PPC forum working on a Classilla-based browser.

Neither have done the crash into the brick wall, but said wall IS about 1.5 feet (45.72 cm) away from your car running at 45 MPH (72 KPH)...I mean, we ARE going to crash and very soon, but we have just a split second left.
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TOO LITTLE TOO LATE, NOW ISN'T IT ? HE HAD 5-6 YEARS TO DO THAT.
 
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RogerWilco6502 said:
Agreed! This doesn't just go for vintage browsers and computers, either. The less overhead you have from additional code, the more usable the site will be :D
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I also agree. This is something I've been thinking a lot in the recent years. I have been more and more annoyed with the amount of not-so-useful code that have been added to the websites. I am an UI/UX designer now, but I am/was also a Web Developer, and I have always pushed for more and more support to legacy browsers or, at least, more simple ways to build a website.

For example I have documented several ways to do things without jQuery/Javascript, on CSS3/HTML5 alone. I try to push them to my colleagues as much as I can because I know this will add much less overhead to their projects.

My own website, currently has no CMS and not a single amount of PHP. It is purely HTML5/CSS3 driven and a little bit of jQuery. I plan to make a new one with much less jQuery, more vanilla Javascript (Vanilla Javascript is much more supported by old browsers anyway) and rely on my HTML5/CSS3 tricks for modern browsers and a few CSS fallbacks.

OFC I will not deprive my own projects from modern day web development technologies, but where possible I will do the most simple solution. And I want to incentive other web developers to do the same.

It will be hard though, because actually, the market wants websites built on JS frameworks like Vue, React, Angular, because these are theoretically easier to build and much more faster with modern browsers. Many web stores made with Magento are adopting PWAs based on Vue frontend, for example.

It will be one hell of a fight. But we can take it...
 
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Macbookprodude said:
We didn't need javascript then, why now ??? We need to go back to 2000's web standards.. we don't need javascript.. Wish the person or persons who created it were right here, because I would smash their brains in.
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Guess who created JS?

The very same guy who created Netscape.
 
Dronecatcher said:
tenfourfox.blogspot.com

The end of TenFourFox and what I've learned from it

Now that I have your attention. I've been mulling TenFourFox's future for awhile now in light of certain feature needs that are far bigger ...
tenfourfox.blogspot.com tenfourfox.blogspot.com

Inevitable I guess. But I'm thankful he's done so much to keep the platform alive all these years.
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This is very sad news; but we knew it was coming. I thought we had at least another 5 years though. Honestly I doubt we will have too many issues for probably around 5 years or so with no updates. At least for however long TLS 1.3 lasts. Even vanilla FF45 is still usable for basic browsing albeit insecure.
 
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Just finished reading both posts. Thanks for everything, Cameron. I may be late to the party but I do realize the genius of his work for these two browsers. Especially Classilla, I was waiting for 9.3.4 but by what I've read, not everything I wanted to see with regards to NSS and TLS is there as I expected.

For example Roytam1 was able to kindly give me a small patch with NSS update for Netscape 9.0.0.6 under Windows 98SE and it's the best browser I have so far for Windows 98SE (although there is an immense work going on MSFN forums with Kernel extenders on Windows 98SE to bring more modern Firefox builds on it, I've seen improvements but it's extremely unstable, hence why I prefere to stay on vanilla Windows 98SE).

If one could port Roytam1's NSS updates to Classilla or Netscape 7.0.2 or 9.0.0.6 for Mac, as briefly mentioned by Cameron on his post, then we could have TLS 1.2 support. My experience with the "updated" Netscape on Win98SE is light browsing only, no bull***t like Facebook, Twitter, many websites are still broken but are usable. I could, for example, log on to VOGONS and MSFN, despite of a broken HTML.

For now I think that my only and best solution is to set up WRP (Web Rendering Proxy) or Browservice somewhere. Then I could use whatever browser I want and screw it, it's done.

I just wish I would never need a Raspberry Pi again since I think this little thing is utterly impossible to work with given how slow it is.
 
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TFF had a hell of a run. Mad respect. However all is not lost....
Use squid proxy on another Mac (or linux/bsd box etc) to handle ssl/tls for old browsers. Problem solved.
Use @alex_free 's Links2. Problem solved.
Rebuild TenFourFox yourself with updated certificates every year and it'll be good for a few more years yet. Problem solved.
Install Linux, BSD or MorphOS. Problem solved.

As Aaron Rodgers once said.... R-E-L-A-X

Cheers
 
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wicknix said:
TFF had a hell of a run. Mad respect. However all is not lost....
Use squid proxy on another Mac (or linux/bsd box etc) to handle ssl/tls for old browsers. Problem solved.
Use @alex_free 's Links2. Problem solved.
Rebuild TenFourFox yourself with updated certificates every year and it'll be good for a few more years yet.

As Aaron Rodgers once said.... R-E-L-A-X

Cheers
Click to expand...

What scare most people is that not everyone has skills to build TFF. Hopefully the community has people to keep it alive for not so skilled users.
 
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wicknix said:
TFF had a hell of a run. Mad respect. However all is not lost....
Use squid proxy on another Mac (or linux/bsd box etc) to handle ssl/tls for old browsers. Problem solved.
Use @alex_free 's Links2. Problem solved.
Rebuild TenFourFox yourself with updated certificates every year and it'll be good for a few more years yet. Problem solved.
Install Linux, BSD or MorphOS. Problem solved.

As Aaron Rodgers once said.... R-E-L-A-X

Cheers
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I think you can just swap out the certificates without building TFF all over again, you can get the current Firefox certificates which I use for Link2 from cURL. Links2 will continue to be updated.

TLS 1.4 won't be a problem for TFF for hopefully another decade.
 
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Also, if someone does not want to strip down their websites just to support old browsers, one can always make a low bandwidth version, this was a very common thing before the iPhone came in 2007. Some sites still have a LB web version, like CNN (lite.cnn.io) and these:

The 'Bary: Nine Low Bandwidth Sites Useful for Dialup, PDAs & Cell Phones

thebary.blogspot.com thebary.blogspot.com

LB mode is actually more useful in case of disasters and emergency situations like the 11/9. Today, it could be beneficial for old browsers. This is a trend we could actually push for, without asking the developers to deprive from newer technologies.
 
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Dude... why is it always about enemies and fighting and blood and honour with you? There is no conspiracy to hurt PPC - it just proved to be inferior to Intel at the time. Could've been different with continued development, but we'll never know.
You want to fight technological progress - be my guest. But it won't do you any good and help nobody, except for Apple maybe who will happily sell you new Macs no one on earth will ever be able to repair. You want someone to hate? Hate Apple for building beautiful, powerful but irreparable machines who will end up as rubbish way sooner than any PowerMac
 
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ahh that is a shame, but I guess I always knew it couldn't last for ever. Props to Kaiser for all the amazing work he put in to keep powerpc alive.

There was some talk about how much longer can ppc last. i'm curious does anyone still exclusively use powerpc machines? as I have much faster machines that I need for work
 
amagichnich said:
Dude... why is it always about enemies and fighting and blood and honour with you? There is no conspiracy to hurt PPC - it just proved to be inferior to Intel at the time. Could've been different with continued development, but we'll never know.
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Said posts are gross, off-topic, offensive as heck, and aren’t at all conducive to working as a community on maintaining the equipment we enjoy using and exploring. I would enjoy seeing a whole lot less of it. For the OP, take this as a direct hint and re-think your posting tack. Cheers.
 
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