The Future of Mac Pro

[knucles]

A: People who want expandability.


A: Since you got the answer to first question wrong, you missed the part where people want expandability. Some people need a lot drives for their music or videos, but don't need the multitask which means 3GB is enough.

Q: Who needs expandability?
A: Pros

Q: What do Pros want to expand?
A: Ram

If you want more than 1tb for music and movies and don't do anything else with them you got yourself the wrong machine

For those who you described an Imac with a couple of Tb external disks via firewire should be better and WAY, WAY cheaper

I could understand your point if the Gpu was free. But it's not, and it is always late, difficult to buy and doublepriced

By the way, gpu being apple locked is ridiculous as well imo....

 

[Umbongo]

By the way, gpu being apple locked is ridiculous as well imo....

Graphics drivers are more critical to the way in which OS X works than many other OSes. Apple don't want 3rd party drivers running such a vital part of the system.

 

[maflynn]

If you want more than 1tb for music and movies and don't do anything else with them you got yourself the wrong machine

Actually you're incorrect. Since the MacPro is the only mac that offers multiple open drive bays. People who want expandability but not your narrow definition of that (ram) will want the macpro as well.

Just because you fail to see the need for multiple drives, or large storage, or a RAID array does not invalidate the other person's requirements.

 

[knucles]

Just because you fail to see the need for multiple drives, or large storage, or a RAID array does not invalidate the other person's requirements.

yeah, people who only use Macs for movies storage know/care about RAID.....

Graphics drivers are more critical to the way in which OS X works than many other OSes. Apple don't want 3rd party drivers running such a vital part of the system.

They could free the hardware and make drivers for certain apple approved brands/models---- just like ram/hdd apart of the drivers.

That would unleash the gaming market that seems important for them with ipad/iphone and the arrival of steam.....

Or apple could buy a small gpu prodution company and just do it.
Imagine apple buying XFX and all Macs would use XFX GPU based on ATI, NVIDIa

 

[Umbongo]

There is no real money to be made on graphics cards for Macs. Apple are interested in the mobile gaming side because they control it and take a percentage from the software sales. They don't get that on a Mac.

 

[chych]

I really hope when PCs start switching from the BIOS to EFI (it's bound to happen soon due to the 2.1 TB boot disk limit), PC graphics cards will work without modification on a Mac.

 

[hugodrax]

Mac Pro = for work, Mines is used for trading those famous "Weapons of mass destruction derivatives"

It has paid for itself the first day

Still using my 2006 box, it is so reliable and it just works. Although I will upgrade when Haswell comes out.

Most users are fine with the iMac platform.

 

[MCHR]

Actually you're incorrect. Since the MacPro is the only mac that offers multiple open drive bays. People who want expandability but not your narrow definition of that (ram) will want the macpro as well.

Just because you fail to see the need for multiple drives, or large storage, or a RAID array does not invalidate the other person's requirements.

Open drive bays isn't the only route to expandability. At this point, FW400, FW800, USB 3.0 and even wireless allow external access from drives, media or online resources.

So, as media evolves (now into SSD media),non-MP users may see a lot of grey area between the mid to upper range Macs. And possibly save money in the process.

 

[philipma1957]

Q: Who needs expandability?
A: Pros

Q: What do Pros want to expand?
A: Ram

If you want more than 1tb for music and movies and don't do anything else with them you got yourself the wrong machine

For those who you described an Imac with a couple of Tb external disks via firewire should be better and WAY, WAY cheaper

I could understand your point if the Gpu was free. But it's not, and it is always late, difficult to buy and doublepriced

By the way, gpu being apple locked is ridiculous as well imo....

the iMac fails the cheapness test over time. the screen kills you when it dies. you can only warranty the screen for 3 years. every part in a macpro i can replace that means it lasts far longer. if I use the imac fw800 is slow in comparison to esata. here is the big kicker if the imac hdd dies your have to bring it to the shop it is far too hard for 90 percent of the public the swap the hdd out... if my mac pro hdd dies less then 1 minute and it is swapped... the closest thing to the mac pro is the 17 inch MBP it is 2299 the mac pro is 2499. I prefer the mac pro 1 it has a better faster cpu A 2.8 QUAD. mbp has a 2.53 quad.. the mac pro can handle far more ram 32gb vs 8gb. I can drop in 8tb in hdds in a minute. run them separately as jbods or lots of other ways. I can add a second dvd drive. apple care for the mbp is 350 for the mac pro is 250.


so you are at 2650 vs 2750.


mac pro becomes a no brainer. I guess you could argue for 2 imacs but that would be over 5 k .

 

[SnoFlo]

Don't forget that you can upgrade the CPU in the Mac Pro too. I get to use monitors of my choice as well. I don't really see Apple radically altering the case design in the future; it's not like this is a boutique item for the hip or something. More PCI slots would be nice.

I have had PC users who told me I could have spent my money more wisely on a custom PC. Strangely though, when they see the machine in person, observe how quiet it is, and then look under the hood all the vitriol seems to dry up fast.

 

[milo]

A: People who want expandability.

Some people want expandability, but all users are different.

Some users just need a ton of processing power but will never use the PCI slots at all. Other users do need a ton of ram.

Actually you're incorrect. Since the MacPro is the only mac that offers multiple open drive bays. People who want expandability but not your narrow definition of that (ram) will want the macpro as well.

Just because you fail to see the need for multiple drives, or large storage, or a RAID array does not invalidate the other person's requirements.

Multiple drives and large storage, even raid, can be done externally via FW, USB, or even network storage via ethernet. Sure, if you need really fast storage, the MP is the way to go. But the example given was lots of music and movies, which will work just fine on external storage on ANY mac.

Someone pointed out, you can even do storage wirelessly. I do that with my mini and it works fine.

the iMac fails the cheapness test over time. the screen kills you when it dies. you can only warranty the screen for 3 years. every part in a macpro i can replace that means it lasts far longer. if I use the imac fw800 is slow in comparison to esata. here is the big kicker if the imac hdd dies your have to bring it to the shop it is far too hard for 90 percent of the public the swap the hdd out... if my mac pro hdd dies less then 1 minute and it is swapped... the closest thing to the mac pro is the 17 inch MBP it is 2299 the mac pro is 2499. I prefer the mac pro 1 it has a better faster cpu A 2.8 QUAD. mbp has a 2.53 quad.. the mac pro can handle far more ram 32gb vs 8gb. I can drop in 8tb in hdds in a minute. run them separately as jbods or lots of other ways. I can add a second dvd drive. apple care for the mbp is 350 for the mac pro is 250.

If the screen dies you can just pay to get it repaired or even use an external monitor instead. If you have a hardware failure in a MP you're still going to have to repair that, if it's something like the motherboard it will be extremely expensive. eSATA is irrelevant for storage of movies and music - are you going to be streaming thousands of songs at one time? Or copying your entire library from drive to drive on a regular basis?

I'm not a fan of the imac, but for someone who just wants to store lots of music and movies it's hard to buy the notion that a MP is somehow "cheaper" for that use.

By the way, the higher end iMac supports 16 gigs of ram (I assume that it can't use the 8 gig chips for 32 total?).

 

[scottsjack]

Some people want expandability, but all users are different.

Multiple drives and large storage, even raid, can be done externally via FW, USB, or even network storage via ethernet. Sure, if you need really fast storage, the MP is the way to go. But the example given was lots of music and movies, which will work just fine on external storage on ANY mac.

Someone pointed out, you can even do storage wirelessly. I do that with my mini and it works fine.

I just replaced a 2.66HGz mini with a MP 3.2 quad. The four WD 1TB Black drives that were in two OWC FW800 boxes are installed in the MP.

The performance, accessibility and reliable connection of the drives in the MP is far beyond that of the mini FW800 connection (let alone USB2). FW800 is an excellent way to connect devices but is definitely best for casual use.

 

[philipma1957]

I just replaced a 2.66HGz mini with a MP 3.2 quad. The four WD 1TB Black drives that were in two OWC FW800 boxes are installed in the MP.

The performance, accessibility and reliable connection of the drives in the MP is far beyond that of the mini FW800 connection (let alone USB2). FW800 is an excellent way to connect devices but is definitely best for casual use.

one power plug
one ups unit
you can swap out a drive in under 1 minute
8tb storage
use an ssd in the extra optical bay.

I can take apart and reassemble a mac pro far far far far easier then an iMac. Remember your iMac hdd dies you are dead in the water. Your Macpro hdd dies sldie the tray out and slide a tray in bam it is fixed. yes it means you need 1 extra hdd tray with 1 extra osx hdd. iMac is nice and fits a need for me in one part of my home. The mac pro is going to be with me a while.

 

[SnoFlo]

^^ Amen to that.

 

[milo]

I just replaced a 2.66HGz mini with a MP 3.2 quad. The four WD 1TB Black drives that were in two OWC FW800 boxes are installed in the MP.

The performance, accessibility and reliable connection of the drives in the MP is far beyond that of the mini FW800 connection (let alone USB2). FW800 is an excellent way to connect devices but is definitely best for casual use.

Of course they are faster. But the example given was for storing MUSIC AND MOVIES which is exactly the definition of casual use, and where speed is probably the lowest priority.

For pure storage needs where the speed of that storage doesn't matter (and many users are doing exactly that casual use), a MP makes zero sense.

one power plug
one ups unit
you can swap out a drive in under 1 minute
8tb storage
use an ssd in the extra optical bay.

I can take apart and reassemble a mac pro far far far far easier then an iMac. Remember your iMac hdd dies you are dead in the water. Your Macpro hdd dies sldie the tray out and slide a tray in bam it is fixed. yes it means you need 1 extra hdd tray with 1 extra osx hdd. iMac is nice and fits a need for me in one part of my home. The mac pro is going to be with me a while.

While those are all nice, you are paying a LOT extra for those few things, and many users are never going to swap out drives. When you have a drive fail you are going to need to restore to the new drive (to at least some degree) anyway.

Sure, the MP is great for storage but I'd be surprised if there are many people buying them just for that. If you're looking at that price range you might as well just get a network storage box that holds multiple drives for the same advantages (or probably more).

 

[seek3r]

Q: Who needs expandability?
A: Pros

Q: What do Pros want to expand?
A: Ram

If you want more than 1tb for music and movies and don't do anything else with them you got yourself the wrong machine

For those who you described an Imac with a couple of Tb external disks via firewire should be better and WAY, WAY cheaper

I could understand your point if the Gpu was free. But it's not, and it is always late, difficult to buy and doublepriced

By the way, gpu being apple locked is ridiculous as well imo....

Actually, as has been pointed out on the boards in many places already, the current GPU prices are quite reasonable. A small markup over standard boards, which accounts for a custom design (yes, based on the ref spec, but the mini-dp config is custom). With the edu price the difference it's even less, only a few bucks.

As for ram, for individuals apple supplies enough ram to let you boot the machine, make sure everything works, then toss their ram and toss your own in. Companies will pay for the expensive upgrades directly from apple, with the same crappy overpricing they'd get from dell, hp, etc.

For that matter, there are apps that are heavily multi-threaded but not ram heavy, and if you bought a mac pro for one of them you won't care that it comes with only 3gb.

Sure, the MP is great for storage but I'd be surprised if there are many people buying them just for that. If you're looking at that price range you might as well just get a network storage box that holds multiple drives for the same advantages (or probably more)

What if you need *fast* access, sometimes GigE from a NAS (which, if you got a good one so you could max out the network link, isnt exactly cheap either) doesnt cut it, and there are a distinct lack of high-speed ports on current macs.

 

[mjsmke]

weather you buy a mac pro now or in 5 years...... 6 months after you buy it a better mac pro with new technology will be advertised. same thing goes for any computer.

The questions you need to ask are....

What spec do i need?

What can i afford now?

Can i live with 3gb ram for a few months untill i can afford to upgrade?

 

[milo]

What if you need *fast* access, sometimes GigE from a NAS (which, if you got a good one so you could max out the network link, isnt exactly cheap either) doesnt cut it, and there are a distinct lack of high-speed ports on current macs.

Did you read the rest of my post (the part you didn't quote)? I already addressed that.

 

[seek3r]

Did you read the rest of my post (the part you didn't quote)? I already addressed that.

fair enough, mea culpa. ::remember to check *all* posts in a thread by $USER before posting ::

 

[milo]

fair enough, mea culpa. ::remember to check *all* posts in a thread by $USER before posting

All posts? The part you missed was in the same post you quoted.

Reading all of the post you're replying to instead of just half of it? Yeah, probably not a bad idea.