The Golden Compass (movie)

Roric said:
As I told a family friend of mine, (our families are both Catholic home schoolers who are very involved at church) "No parent raising their child in faith will be afraid of this series." If you are truly raising your child to be a good faithful Christian, you will not be afraid of this movie or the books. You will have faith in your ability to overcome the harm this story causes.

I would also hope that the parents would TALK to their child about how this series does not represent what you believe. In fact, this series could even STRENGTHEN your faith.

I find it extremely ironic that these church groups are getting all up in arms over the movie. Don't they realize that by shouting from the rooftops that this is a horrible movie that should never be seen, they are actually giving it more publicity and making MORE people want to see it?
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I'm not saying that I feel very strongly on the issue either way, but you should also keep in mind that if you go see the movie, you're giving money to Philip Pullman and the studio that makes the movie. I don't know how anti-religious/anti-Catholic the movie/book is, but I believe the main reason there are calls for boycotts, etc. is that you're supporting those who want to promote ideas contrary to your own, you're giving them money that can help them do that.

Sure, no good Catholic is going to be brainwashed by seeing the movie, but why would a Catholic want to put money in the pocket of a very strong atheist who actively preaches his atheism?
 
Macaddicttt said:
Sure, no good Catholic is going to be brainwashed by seeing the movie, but why would a Catholic want to put money in the pocket of a very strong atheist who actively preaches his atheism?
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Pretty much what I was thinking.

There is no doubt that the story is compelling ... until you find out what happens at the end of the series. It's a blatant rip off of The Chronicles of Narnia and that's all there is to it.
 
I love the books to death. I've honestly read all three of them like a thousand times each. That being said, I'm not sure about the movie. I'll end up watching it of course, but I don't have great expectations. It'll be all kitsch all the time, and while it most likely will be entertaining, it won't approximate the books in quality of narrative or depth of interpretation.

And to those that say that Pullman hates spirituality and religion, that's not really entirely true. He hates organized religion most of all, but is a strong believer in spirituality - in fact, the end of the series is about a reclaiming of a freer sense of the word "religion" in that it pulls towards the original Latin term religare, which means to bind. In the end, anyways, he doesn't care what people think. I was reading an interview the other day where he said that his intention was never to change the way people think; to paraphrase him, he said that if he wanted to do that, he'd just "write a sermon."
 
well i'm not Catholic, and didn't know it was anti-catholic or whatever. but the preview did seem to be ok. think i should go see it?
 
Honestly, I could not really care less about the author's religious agenda or affiliation. The previews looked interesting, it looks like a film that I would enjoy, I'm going to go see it.

It is amusing, it was already mentioned, that by making such a fuss over the movie, religious groups are providing free advertising for the film. They're so concerned with getting people to not go, that others wonder "Well what are their panties all bunched up for?" and go see the movie. I know that's how I felt about Davinci Code.

I guess everyone needs something to argue about. No one can just be happy they've got their health and their family.
 
As an atheist myself, yeah the books are pro-atheist and about being an individual human being.

I also read C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia and reading those at a young age i didn't have any clue to the allusions to Christianity, but now as I read them again you can cut the religious allusion with a knife in some of the earlier books it is so strong.

I always think its funny though that the religious people protest while the atheist people sit by quietly and put up with all the religious peoples crap day in and day out.
 
galganog said:
I always think its funny though that the religious people protest while the atheist people sit by quietly and put up with all the religious peoples crap day in and day out.
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The religious people aren't protesting. They're organized, and urging their organization to not give money to someone who's against the organization. This isn't an attack on atheism. Would you go to a movie that you knew was giving money to missionaries? Would you urge fellow atheists to not give missionaries money?

They aren't burning effigies in the streets you know.
 
Macaddicttt said:
The religious people aren't protesting. They're organized, and urging their organization to not give money to someone who's against the organization. This isn't an attack on atheism. Would you go to a movie that you knew was giving money to missionaries? Would you urge fellow atheists to not give missionaries money?
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Yeah, or support the Salvation Army, YMCA or YWCA, World Vision (sponsoring children in Africa etc)...

I freely admit I am a "religious" person, a protestant Christian. I believe that the purpose of Christianity is to develop a personal relationship with our Creator. The church, and organized religion, should be a means, and not an end. Too many people see "religion" as a set of codes, memes, structures, rules, and a structure for power and control over other people and societies. Even in the Bible there are countless stories of Jesus himself fighting against "the system" for that very reason.

Or, to put it in another perspective, I choose to use a Mac because it brings me joy and a smile to my face and helps me get my work done. I come read MacRumors to learn more about my Mac and how to use it better and be better informed about Apple and society, and I tell other people they should use a Mac because I genuinely believe they will be better off once they make the switch. I don't do any of this because of any wish to control anyone or gain power and prestige in the forums or hope to become second in command after Steve Jobs, and I don't use a Mac only because I was promised great rewards for doing so or threatened that my life would suffer if I dared to ever so much as look at a Windows PC. I don't tell others about Macs based on a commission I expect to receive on their purchases.

I haven't read the books, or frankly even heard of them until the hype for this movie came out. I intend to see the movie, and I intend to read the books, and I intend to think for myself. I don't think this is too much to ask from anyone, religious or not, Christian or atheist.

When Catholic groups or church groups cry "boycott" it strikes me as being severely counterproductive, both because (a) it stirs up interest in the thing they would rather be quieted, and (b) because it only reinforces the notion that believing in a religion or church requires one to intentionally close himself off to reasoning and logic and opposing viewpoints -- kind of a "la la la I'm not listening!" syndrome. This not only makes us look like irrational nutcases, but the believer who falls for that crap will be in for a rude shock when one day he or she finds that they really can't explain rationally what they believe in or why they believe it.

Or, again, I use a Mac and I can explain to you exactly why, and debate the merits of Macs versus PCs, and indeed can use a PC productively and see the pros and cons of each, as opposed to someone that says "I've always used Apple and I've never even tried a Windows PC and I never will because Macs are just better and they always will be and that's all I ever need to know. And I'm pulling my kids out of school because they use PCs and I only want them to know how to use Macs".

I have a Christian friend who has read the books and could find nothing to protest because, he says, he shares the author's criticisms on certain aspects of organized religion.
 
notjustjay said:
When Catholic groups or church groups cry "boycott" it strikes me as being severely counterproductive, both because (a) it stirs up interest in the thing they would rather be quieted, and (b) because it only reinforces the notion that believing in a religion or church requires one to intentionally close himself off to reasoning and logic and opposing viewpoints -- kind of a "la la la I'm not listening!" syndrome. This not only makes us look like irrational nutcases, but the believer who falls for that crap will be in for a rude shock when one day he or she finds that they really can't explain rationally what they believe in or why they believe it.
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Boycotting giving someone money is not saying "la la la I'm not listening." It's a reasoned response. Again, I don't really have any particular viewpoint on this, I'm just trying to show that it's not irrationality that's driving people to want to boycott the movie. If people want to boycott it, it's for a perfectly reasoned motive. People aren't boycotting it because of the content per se, but because one motive behind writing the books was spreading a sort of anti-religiosity. Why would a Christian want to give this guy more money to write more anti-Christian books?

While point a) might be true, point b) definitely isn't.
 
Macaddicttt said:
People aren't boycotting it because of the content per se, but because one motive behind writing the books was spreading a sort of anti-religiosity. Why would a Christian want to give this guy more money to write more anti-Christian books?
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OK, fair enough, IF the author is indeed promoting an anti-religious agenda. (At first glance it appears he is, though some have said it's more anti-organized-religion which I feel does not equate to anti-Christian). Again I haven't read the books yet so I can't say.

But some churches/groups have a way of boycotting things that don't promote their agenda even if it's not actively against. The DaVinci Code, Harry Potter, are examples. And I was also speaking out against those who would say "Ooh, it's not pro-Christian, avoid it, don't even read it"... I'm more inclined to say "Read it, but understand where the author is coming from, apply critical thinking skills, draw conclusions for yourself." This skill is sadly lacking, and from both pro-religion AND pro-atheist folks alike.
 
notjustjay said:
But some churches/groups have a way of boycotting things that don't promote their agenda even if it's not actively against. The DaVinci Code, Harry Potter, are examples. And I was also speaking out against those who would say "Ooh, it's not pro-Christian, avoid it, don't even read it"... I'm more inclined to say "Read it, but understand where the author is coming from, apply critical thinking skills, draw conclusions for yourself." This skill is sadly lacking, and from both pro-religion AND pro-atheist folks alike.
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See, this is different than Harry Potter or the Da Vinci code because it is a direct attack on organized religion, the Catholic Church in particular. The bad guys are the "Magisterium" and the only other context in which that word appears is as the body within the Catholic Church that maintains its supposed inerrancy. This is the problem for a lot of people. The books at least, are a direct attack on the Catholic Church. The movie appears to have been toned down, but it makes sense to not want to give this guy money to write more books.
 
I think it's ridiculous that the church thinks they have the right to dictate what movies are and aren't appropriate for the public because they may offend some people. You were not forced to read the books, you are not being forced to see the movie, so leave those of us who thoroughly enjoyed the series for what it is, despite Pullman's personal beliefs, a fantasy adventure that is in my opinion a masterful work of art.

I apologize for interjecting my personal stance on religion into this post, but I don't see how so many people believe that it's right for one group (majority or not) to dictate what is appropriate media for public release despite the fact that their entire foundation is based on personal beliefs.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Harry Potter book burning to attend (just kidding).

As for the movie, I'm planning to go tomorrow. As usual with movies based on books, I'm planning to go in assuming I have little to no knowledge about the story itself so I can attempt to enjoy it without acknowledging what was/wasn't left out.
 
Obviously you have not read this thread and have posted in complete ignorance. I suggest you read about the motives for a boycott of the movie before making such rash judgments. The Church is not trying to dictate what is and is not appropriate, which is obvious to anyone who actually knew anything about this case. Please don't burst into threads completely ignorant of the situation, injecting your own biased bpolitical/religious ideas. No one wants this goodnatured thread about a movie to end up in the Political Forum.
 
Macaddicttt said:
The Church is not trying to dictate what is and is not appropriate
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Let's also not forget that there are many "The Church"es -- the Catholic church, various flavours of Protestants (Baptists, United, Anglican, etc) as well as not-quite-traditional-Christian-church groups like the Mormoms, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, etc. Even then, there are regional groups, etc. You have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush.

Sometimes one of these groups will get all up in arms about a topic that the others simply shrug and say "Eh?" Unfortunately this can be a cause of divisiveness and criticism from non-church-goers, but at the same time it can be a litmus test to see what issues are truly important/relevant.

Back on topic: Hoping to see this movie next week maybe. Will let you know what I think.
 
the movie isn't so much an attack on God but rather on the organisations that commit terrible acts in his name. You should see it as more of attack on what the catholic church used to be - an organisation that supported the spanish inquisition, the crusades, witch burnings and the massacre of countless south american peoples. If you read the books you'll see that God is entirely absolved of any wrong doing and effectively everything is being done by others in his name.

Sorry if people seem affronted by the rare event of atheists getting a bit preachy, we have to put up with all sorts of craps from religious types so why shouldn't we weigh in with a bit of passion occasionally. Generally we're a quiet bunch - to my knowledge bands of atheists have never gone to war to win anything!
 
jimN said:
Sorry if people seem affronted by the rare event of atheists getting a bit preachy, we have to put up with all sorts of craps from religious types so why shouldn't we weigh in with a bit of passion occasionally. Generally we're a quiet bunch - to my knowledge bands of atheists have never gone to war to win anything!
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I personally just like playing Devil's advocate. I don't like it when either the religious or atheists make ridiculous claims. :)
 
Having seen the movie on Friday, my short review is it is worth seeing. Trying not to reveal anything for those who haven't read the books, let me say they have changed some things from the book that are disconcerting, but it still works as a movie. My biggest complaint is where the movie stops. It gives a much different feel to the subject matter by not continuing on to where the first book stops in the story. It also makes me wonder if they are planning to make Lyra's father into a one-dimensional good guy. That would be horrendous.

Cast is great. And the girl who plays Lyra is perfect. I don't know where they found her, but they couldn't have found a better person to play the role. Which means they had also better start filming the other books before the kid grows up.
 
Well the movie seems to be getting bad reviews and is doing particularly baddly at the box office.

I have to say i thought it looked interesting when I saw the trailers (having never heard about the books before), but when I heard the reviews, I quickly lost interest.
 
hvfsl said:
I have to say i thought it looked interesting when I saw the trailers (having never heard about the books before), but when I heard the reviews, I quickly lost interest.
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All the religious discussion aside, when I saw the trailer, I immediately thought it looked like a wanna-be knockoff of some kind of "Narnia meets Lord of the Rings" child-fantasy-talking-animals-epic-adventure.

Could be that this is what everyone is tempted to compare it to.
 
hvfsl said:
Well the movie seems to be getting bad reviews and is doing particularly baddly at the box office.

I have to say i thought it looked interesting when I saw the trailers (having never heard about the books before), but when I heard the reviews, I quickly lost interest.
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Mixed reviews across the board in the States, seems to be fairing better in the UK. I saw it last night - It's a fine movie in its own right for folks who haven't read the book, and it could have been outstanding with a more experienced director at the helm. In many ways, I think I now know how the hard-core Potter fans felt when Chris Columbus released Sorcerer's Stone back in 2001. Personally, I think Chris Weitz should be yanked from the project and the sequels, if they get made, be given to a more competent director.

I do think it's quite interesting that the various Christian churches are desperately trying to tell people how to think about the movie and the books, and the books themselves (and to a much lesser extent, the movie) are precisely about the church abusing its power. Personally, I'm sick and tired of various factions of Christianity believing they've got a monopoly on morality, politics and faith in the States - anything that unsettles that lot I'll gladly support.
 
I didn't like it. I didn't read the book, so I was like... "WTF are they talking about" throughout the whole movie.
 
FoxyKaye said:
I do think it's quite interesting that the various Christian churches are desperately trying to tell people how to think about the movie and the books, and the books themselves (and to a much lesser extent, the movie) are precisely about the church abusing its power. Personally, I'm sick and tired of various factions of Christianity believing they've got a monopoly on morality, politics and faith in the States - anything that unsettles that lot I'll gladly support.
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I totally agree. I wonder if Pullman is getting a kick out of the church proving his point?

My cousin goes to a catholic school. They sent home letters to the parents telling them that the students "are not allowed" to see The Golden Compass. Since he is Jewish I wonder if he is going to get a letter that he is not allowed to celebrate Chanukah...
 
Here's my point of view from somebody who has not read the books.

When the movie was being advertised, I wasn't particularly interested. I flagged it as a potential rental based on the strength of the cast.

The attention generated by the protests piqued my interest enough that this weekend I took my family (wife and 12 year old son) to see it.

Without having read the books, I can see that it suffered horribly from being cut down -- things happened way too fast, and for the most part seemed to easy. I could sense all the missing backstory. I think it would have helped immensely to have a more experienced director to navigate through, and probably an extra 1/2 hour running time at least.

The ending felt like the right spot -- even knowing it came from a trilogy of books, I had expected a more complete finish to it, leaving it hanging came as a surprise. But I could feel it wrapping up after the big battle, going much farther would have been too anti-climactic (and not knowing what was left out, other than the fact that it is a bit of a shock, my guess is it would be too open-ended for a movie that New Line is not totally behind).

With that said, in the end for my family the movie worked. The visuals were amazing, the acting superb, they should have put more heart and experience into the adaptation and directing. But -- a couple of hours later we were still talking about it and some of the ideas, and it has generated enough interest for us to want to read the books (which will now show up as a Christmas present; I guess there may be an irony there).

As far as the theological aspects, I believe in a God, but am opposed to organized religion, which I believe carries a historical corruption of the idea. The rest of my family is far more interested in the organized religion point. This is a common point of debate/discussion in our house.

It sounds like these books will add nicely to the talking points.
 
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