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All iPads The great memory rip-off
- Thread starter superduperdom
- Start date
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What's the alternative option that runs iOS?
Good deal or bad deal, it is what it is. Pay up or switch platforms. While flippant, it really is what it boils down to. Is the pain of paying extra greater than the pain of divesting from the iOS ecosystem?
That last bit is the crux and different people will choose differently; each choice is valid since it's value judgement call on each individual's part.
IMHO, worrying about component cost is silly with well differentiated non-commodity products. Cost based pricing is usually only relevant in undifferentiated commodity products. Outside that arena pricing is primarily driven by what most consumers are willing to pay; it's understood there will be a quantity of potential customers who reject the pricing as too expensive. The balancing act is to set the pricing where sufficiently more are willing to pay than are unwilling to pay. Cost is only a factor in whether you're still making a profit at that level.
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Apple has built it's entire business on HIGH margins - producing a quality product and charging as much as humanly possible for it, until the negative reaction to the price starts to erode the bottom line. It's called the Apple Tax. You make it out like people who pay the apple tax are singing and dance for the honor of paying it. You may be, but I am not. I grumble, and try to get the best deal possible I can on Apple products - refurbs, buying a cMBP so I can upgrade it for years longer than people buying a rMBP, etc...
I know I am not alone in this practice. So I would say you are wrong about happily accepting it.
you were the one that brought up the cost of enterprise drives.
your entire argument is ridiculous.
a flash drive costs about $1/gig for one of these:
they are charging about $2/gig for what they put inside the ipad. in the past, for my apple laptops i haven't upgraded the ram because i would just buy it cheaper and install it myself. you can't really do that, or at least i can't, with the air so i pay the premium to upgrade.
it's about opportunity cost and choice. Ripoff is A - a silly term and B- entirely subjective.
you seem unable or unwilling to understand that for some reason.
It makes as much sense as saying "man, ketchup is gross"
i believe that to be true, which in a sense makes it true as to me ketchup is disgusting. But that doesn't make it true for others, no matter how much I try and "educate" people on it's terrible consistency, smell and taste. Not to mention the fact that they mark the hell up out of it relative to what they spend making it.
How's this any different from a car manufacturer charging £500 for integrated Sat-Nav (and £150 for map updates!) when a standalone unit costs £50?
They charge £80 for each memory bump *because they can* and because people happily pay it.
Personally I would say it isn't a rip-off as at least they are upfront with their pricing, it's not as bad as someone who initially quotes you £100 to fix your boiler suddenly coming back asking for £1000 when they've completed the work.
It's all about market forces - if people were buying the 16GB iPad in their droves and the 32/64/128 weren't selling they'd quickly drop the price until sales picked up. They're in the fortunate position that people will happily pay £80 for each memory bump (much as it pains me and my wallet)
They charge £80 for each memory bump *because they can* and because people happily pay it.
Personally I would say it isn't a rip-off as at least they are upfront with their pricing, it's not as bad as someone who initially quotes you £100 to fix your boiler suddenly coming back asking for £1000 when they've completed the work.
It's all about market forces - if people were buying the 16GB iPad in their droves and the 32/64/128 weren't selling they'd quickly drop the price until sales picked up. They're in the fortunate position that people will happily pay £80 for each memory bump (much as it pains me and my wallet)
that's not at all what i am "making it out like"
That's how the entire capitalism works - the company tries to make as much money as possible for their goods and services, and the consumer tries to get as many goods and services for their money.
Different companies and different consumers approach this differently, but the end goal is always the same.
I remember when they started selling the xbox, i think it was, they were apparently selling it at cost. Now, Microsoft wasn't trying to charge "as much as humanly possible" in that case, but they were trying to make as much money as humanly possible and that was part of their strategy to do it.
Apple's prices are higher than the competition, almost across the board; and in my opinion so is the quality. If the general consensus did not agree then Apple would not be able to maintain that practice of charging what you call the "Apple Tax"
It's not at all about singing and dancing for the honor of paying that high price or whatever misconstruction of my point you care to make. It's about making a choice. If you buy a $500 iPad then you made a choice that you wanted that iPad at least as much as you wanted your $500. That's it.
If you don't want it or think it's a "rip-off" then why would you but it?
People value things differently and people have different needs.
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exactly - and that's an excellent point on the boiler repair. That, in my opinion, IS a rip-off bordering on fraud. Sometimes things happen and repairs etc go beyond estimates, but there is a practice as old as the world itself of people pulling that kind of stunt. Pretty sure even the Ancient Egyptians hated car mechanics.
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potentially. if someone "needs" an ipad and "needs" more than 16gb then they need to decide if those needs rise above their need for their 600+ dollars.
what is a good deal to you might not be a good deal to someone else.
how can you not see that?
Exactly! Generally integrated sat nav in vehicles, along with especially the map upgrades, are a ripoff.
I think buying inbuilt memory is more reliable than using SD cards. I use them with my android devices but after a while the cards get corrupted and fail. Its highly annoying and of course you have to buy another one. So yes maybe you have to pay an extra £100 for more storage on an iOS device but that's it.
I see it as them buying a product based on their needs, but you're still getting hosed on storage pricing. If the higher end models where better in at least some other way you wouldn't hear whining from me. One is literally just paying for storage.
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And apples 112 gb ssd is $300
16gb $100
48gb $200
More than double for sure, especially for less than 128
unless of course you decide that you want integrated sat nav in your vehicle with the map upgrades and want it as much or more than the price they are asking.
man, people have really forgotten the trade-value of money. i blame the big-chain supermarkets. people seem to think something is worth X and that's it.
Supermarket margins are constantly in flux, but unless something changes drastically or over time they tend to hold their prices constant. As a result people have come to think that a box of rice krispies is "worth" $4 and that's it.
But the reality is, when you buy that box of rice krispies, you are making a trade. maybe it's not worth $4 to you a few days before you go out of town for a month. maybe it's worth more to you the day you get back. we make these decisions a million times a day - and value is dynamic.
Look at what you are willing to pay for a beach-house rental in July vs February.
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yes - more than double what it would cost to buy your own drive to put in your full-sized computer or laptop.
can you fit one of those things into your ipad because i cant. Apple can? well guess what, they get to charge more to do it.
it wouldn't matter if they were charging $1000 for a storage increase, the end result is the same.
With capitalism usually comes competition. In the tablet market, you really only have two main players. Once someone sinks a lot of $$$ into applications for one environment, it makes it that much more difficult to switch to the other. Apple is getting dangerously close to having folks opt for an android, with an SD card slot, for 1/3 the price, and have some of that savings go towards replacing their purchased apps.
If I were a 7" tablet fan, I probably would have made the jump at this point. The increased competition has not caused Apple to change it's strategy to date(it always highlighted it's yearly CPU upgrades). Hopefully soon Apple will make some concessions in favor of consumers, in light of the assault from Android.
Technically, that's only if you're going with the 128GB model. Going from 16 to 32, they're charging you around $6/GB.
So do you think there is no competition?
Dangerously close? Android has already dominated the past 2 quarters. See? competition. Saying there's 2 main players in the tablet market is like saying there are two main players in the PC world...
It's not Android vs Apple anymore than it's PC vs Apple. It's All of the manufacturers of Android OS devices vs Apple (and each other) and all the manufacturers of windows machines vs Apple (and each other).
Samsung, HTC, Asus, Sony, Google, Amazon etc...
But yes, things change - prices drop or quality goes up. As it stands, Apple focuses on driving quality up so that it can hold its prices firm. So if you could quantify dollar per unit of quality then the price is essentially dropping - even if you select for the global improvement. Rising tide raises all ships.
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that's true. but everything i said still applies. it doesn't matter what they're charging - you are not entitled to goods or services at any set price any more than they are entitled to your money for any set amount of storage.
I don't know. 1gig of RAM, and LOTS of crashes seem to be the opposite of "driving quality up".
If you want to get very specific, we can. I chose for overall Apple vs Them approach. Apple is getting it's butt handed to them in marketshare for both smartphones and tables, from THEM(collectively). Apple can choose it's same path - Upgrade CPU, be chinsy with the rest(low ram, 16gigs storage and charge a kings ransom to upgrade, etc...) while watching their marketshare evaporate away, or they can try to compete. It should be obvious to EVERYONE that selling the iPad2 at $399 is a move not to compete, it's a move to shake as much off the consumer money tree as possible.
To deny that Apple is forgoing marketshare for bigger profits is to deny facts.
you are quibbling over minutia. You may not approve of particular spec decisions they made or think the amount of improvement is exaggerated, but clearly they are improving the quality of the device with every upgrade. And even if they weren't, that is clearly the goal - everybody strikes out from time to time, this isn't at all pertinent to the discussion.
of course they are going for bigger profits - who in this thread denied that? so what?
I just heard an analyst on market place last night talking about how Target is doing the same thing - they are going after higher-class customers who in this economy have more spending money. It's the way the world works.
Who is arguing with that? I think maybe you are missing the point.
Guess you've never bought a Coke at a stadium...
In other news: Movie theaters charge popcorn customers 1000x the cost of corn!
Bingo!
Changed perspective on storage needs
My first ipad gen 1 was 64 Gb. My first iPhone a 4 S was 64 Gb. I always thought I needed more space for music storage. My rMBP is 512. I still can't fit my whole music library on it.
I always thought buy the max amount possible. This time I am sticking with 16 GB on my Air. Why. When working out I use a shuffle. For portable music I have a CEntrance dac amp that decodes from apple. For it I am going to use a iPod Classic at 160 GB. At home I will use Remote app into my sound system system. The bottom line is I discovered I was buying the max possible on my iOS devices and then storing music but barely ever using it. I definitely believe apple should start everything at 32 GB and I understand why they don't - so they can make money.
I can get a Air 16 at Target for $440 with my target charge card and a 15 dollar coupon for $440 and Walmart is selling the iPod Classic for under $200. I can get both devices for well under the cost of a 128 GB Air. Next year I can sell my Air for am new one if I choose to with less of a loss. With Black Friday deals on the 16 GB Air it's over $130 less than the 32 GB model.
When I sold two iPhone 4S one at 16 and the other at 64 there was barely a difference in what I was able to get for them. I don't think being prudent with the number of apps I have and relying on other media for mass storage is a bad way to save some money. The quality of the user experience on a 16 Air versus a 128 is minimal except a few types of users.
Thanks to the op of this thread because this thread really got me thinking about need versus want on storage.
My first ipad gen 1 was 64 Gb. My first iPhone a 4 S was 64 Gb. I always thought I needed more space for music storage. My rMBP is 512. I still can't fit my whole music library on it.
I always thought buy the max amount possible. This time I am sticking with 16 GB on my Air. Why. When working out I use a shuffle. For portable music I have a CEntrance dac amp that decodes from apple. For it I am going to use a iPod Classic at 160 GB. At home I will use Remote app into my sound system system. The bottom line is I discovered I was buying the max possible on my iOS devices and then storing music but barely ever using it. I definitely believe apple should start everything at 32 GB and I understand why they don't - so they can make money.
I can get a Air 16 at Target for $440 with my target charge card and a 15 dollar coupon for $440 and Walmart is selling the iPod Classic for under $200. I can get both devices for well under the cost of a 128 GB Air. Next year I can sell my Air for am new one if I choose to with less of a loss. With Black Friday deals on the 16 GB Air it's over $130 less than the 32 GB model.
When I sold two iPhone 4S one at 16 and the other at 64 there was barely a difference in what I was able to get for them. I don't think being prudent with the number of apps I have and relying on other media for mass storage is a bad way to save some money. The quality of the user experience on a 16 Air versus a 128 is minimal except a few types of users.
Thanks to the op of this thread because this thread really got me thinking about need versus want on storage.
Very good points made.
Another angle is to consider the annual cost of iTunes Match vs the cost of additional storage. Not applicable to everyone's situation, but $20/yr vs $100 device cost increment is easy to figure out if you're on wifi most times you'd play music from your iPad....
(Before people correct me on $25/yr, I typically wait for 20% off iTunes gift card sales and stock up,, so $20 is the net cost...
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Well, since storage can't be upgraded on these then Apple's pricing model works "ok." If they only charged $25 more for the next model up then they've made the product windows too small.
And while some people may think of the higher memory models as a "rip-off", think about it this way...
16GB -> 32GB = $100 more for double the memory, or $6.25/GB (for an extra 16GB).
The 128GB model is $799, $300 more than the 16GB model. If Apple charged a linear amount for storage space then the 128GB model would be $700 more, but it's not. You're getting 800% more space for 60% more money.
The higher capacity models are a better value in terms of $/GB. I started out with the 32GB model and after 2 days I decided that 32GB just wasn't going to be enough in the long run, so I exchanged it for a 128GB model. The last thing I want to do is have to worry about whether or not I have enough space or having to make sacrifices and prioritize. Now I can basically do whatever the heck I want without worrying about space and that's a nice feeling.
And while some people may think of the higher memory models as a "rip-off", think about it this way...
16GB -> 32GB = $100 more for double the memory, or $6.25/GB (for an extra 16GB).
The 128GB model is $799, $300 more than the 16GB model. If Apple charged a linear amount for storage space then the 128GB model would be $700 more, but it's not. You're getting 800% more space for 60% more money.
The higher capacity models are a better value in terms of $/GB. I started out with the 32GB model and after 2 days I decided that 32GB just wasn't going to be enough in the long run, so I exchanged it for a 128GB model. The last thing I want to do is have to worry about whether or not I have enough space or having to make sacrifices and prioritize. Now I can basically do whatever the heck I want without worrying about space and that's a nice feeling.
Since sensationalist articles like the one referenced by the OP, and several responders in this thread all seem to be obsessed with deconstructing the price of an iPad, let's take it a step further...
If the incremental price of a memory upgrade is $100, then an iPad Air with NO flash storage should theoretically be $100 less than the base price, or $399.
$400 for a slab of glass and aluminum that does nothing. How does that work? $200 for the chip and $200 for everything else? $100 for the chip, $100 for the LCD panel and $100 for everything else?
Why isn't everyone getting all lady pants about the other overpriced components? Why pick on flash memory? Because people are zombified regurgitating morons.
They see a 500gb no name SSD for $200 on oldegg.com and automatically, any flash storage that costs more than $200 and gives you less than 500gb is a rip off.
Who cares that the 500GB drive doesn't actually have a tablet attached to it, with a ridiculously complicated OS, labored over by hundreds of coders day and night? (An OS which is free on an iPad)
Ok, so other tablets offer more storage for less. Big honkin deal. Other tablets also offer less iOS; NONE. They offer less iTunes integration; NONE. They offer less iTunes Match, Genius Bar support, (where's the Android Tablet Bar?), less Apple TV integration; NONE.
This whole argument isn't about memory at all. It's about Apple making an expensive product, which they do. But last time I checked, they also operated a buttload of stores, which are free to enter, free to seek help at, and where they generously replace/exchange/repair/refund their products for the slightest flaw, many times without a receipt, and sometimes even out of warranty.
Gee, I wonder where they get the cash to be able to operate like that?
The people that moan about Apple prices are the very same people who would throw an absolute FIT if they got turned away at the Genius Bar when requesting a brand new iPad because theirs has a .0025nm scratch inside the headphone jack.
If the incremental price of a memory upgrade is $100, then an iPad Air with NO flash storage should theoretically be $100 less than the base price, or $399.
$400 for a slab of glass and aluminum that does nothing. How does that work? $200 for the chip and $200 for everything else? $100 for the chip, $100 for the LCD panel and $100 for everything else?
Why isn't everyone getting all lady pants about the other overpriced components? Why pick on flash memory? Because people are zombified regurgitating morons.
They see a 500gb no name SSD for $200 on oldegg.com and automatically, any flash storage that costs more than $200 and gives you less than 500gb is a rip off.
Who cares that the 500GB drive doesn't actually have a tablet attached to it, with a ridiculously complicated OS, labored over by hundreds of coders day and night? (An OS which is free on an iPad)
Ok, so other tablets offer more storage for less. Big honkin deal. Other tablets also offer less iOS; NONE. They offer less iTunes integration; NONE. They offer less iTunes Match, Genius Bar support, (where's the Android Tablet Bar?), less Apple TV integration; NONE.
This whole argument isn't about memory at all. It's about Apple making an expensive product, which they do. But last time I checked, they also operated a buttload of stores, which are free to enter, free to seek help at, and where they generously replace/exchange/repair/refund their products for the slightest flaw, many times without a receipt, and sometimes even out of warranty.
Gee, I wonder where they get the cash to be able to operate like that?
The people that moan about Apple prices are the very same people who would throw an absolute FIT if they got turned away at the Genius Bar when requesting a brand new iPad because theirs has a .0025nm scratch inside the headphone jack.
I completely agree. I picked up a demo ipad air at the Apple store and it had something like 2GB left. I love apps, so this tells me the 16GB base model will get filled up way too quickly. The 32GB is the smallest most people should buy, and if you look at it that way the ipad really costs $600, not $500. If Apple started at 32GB I wouldn't care too much how bad they are ripping people off. Well, I would care to an extent I suppose, because I still think it's absurd that they charge $130 for a cellular radio, but it would be an improvement!