The Iconic iMac G4

[timidpimpin]

I guess according to @timidpimpin I'm doing the hobby a dis-service when I have computers to fill out a set or complete a collection when they haven't been turned on in a year. They serve a purpose, even if they aren't doing anything now.

I didn't know he had the power to do what I was "allowed" to do with my computers. I'll start asking for permission here before I buy something.

BTW, who exactly determines what a "fair" price for something is? I've paid what some see as nutty prices before because it was a rare variant that I'd had never seen offered before, or otherwise only seen at much higher prices prior.

So, who is the ultimate arbitrator of prices? Is it @timidpimtim ? If so, I guess I should consult with him before I decide to sell something to make sure I'm not selling it for what he sees as a too high of a price.

What's up with this over the top melodrama? I'm simply giving my opinion. Not acting as if my ideals should regulate anyone or anything.

Some people really take the opinion of others a little too seriously I think. My opinions are harmless to you.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Some people really take the opinion of others a little too seriously I think.

Exactly. Being disgruntled at being priced out of a market doesn't equate to making a call for Communism...and preferring Youtube videos to have some genuinely interesting or original content isn't elitism.

 

[bunnspecial]

What's up with this over the top melodrama? I'm simply giving my opinion. Not acting as if my ideals should regulate anyone or anything.

Some people really take the opinion of others a little too seriously I think. My opinions are harmless to you.

You made a couple of bold statements-first of all calling others out for having computers that they don't use, and saying that Ebay should be policed and ads that you consider overpriced removed.

Frankly you make a lot of questionable statements on here, and I'm calling them for what I see.

 

[timidpimpin]

Frankly you make a lot of questionable statements on here

Right back at you.

 

[0248294]

Right back at you.

Would you care to give some examples?

 

[reukiodo]

There is another way to look at collectors that never use their computers, sitting on a shelf.

I prefer to preserve these machines for future generations. Unlike cars, which will deteriorate rather quickly without intermittent use, computers age with use, whether from heat or constant wear (hard drive).

I have many PPC Macs, some I use intermittently because I love them (Pismo, iBook), they are useful to me (Quad, PDQ), or just plain fun to use (9500, iMacG4), and many others just sit on a shelf, not because they aren't useable right now, but because I don't want to use them right now, and I don't want them to be used right now.

So yes, I'm one of those who selfishly hordes PPC Macs and keeps them in working condition, not for me, and certainly not for anyone else right now, but for future generations to have access to what I consider to be a piece of history, more than just something to be used and enjoyed in the present.

 

[Dronecatcher]

So yes, I'm one of those who selfishly hordes PPC Macs and keeps them in working condition, not for me, and certainly not for anyone else right now, but for future generations to have access to what I consider to be a piece of history, more than just something to be used and enjoyed in the present.

But would you happily give them to a museum or sell them when they are scarce for a tidy price? No need to answer that

My take on collectors who are effectively investors, is that they're the same as property developers who get wind of low price housing, swoop in and buy as much as possible, the market price goes up and first time buyers can no longer afford their first homes.

 

[reukiodo]

But would you happily give them to a museum or sell them when they are scarce for a tidy price? No need to answer that

My take on collectors who are effectively investors, is that they're the same as property developers who get wind of low price housing, swoop in and buy as much as possible, the market price goes up and first time buyers can no longer afford their first homes.

These are already in my will to be donated to a museum which has a reputation of caring for its items.

I have more respect for people who do what they do for a grander goal than just to simply make money.

 

[Dronecatcher]

These are already in my will to be donated to a museum which has a reputation of caring for its items.

I have more respect for people who do what they do for a grander goal than just to simply make money.

That's brilliant - what a great outlook

 

[timidpimpin]

Would you care to give some examples?

They're right in this thread.
[doublepost=1562177579][/doublepost]"For me... I would never buy a computer if I didn't intend to use it consistently. Otherwise it's just taking up space, and I like space."

I'm speaking 100% from personal opinion here, and I never once mentioned a thing about others needing to feel the same. Like I previously stated... people hold far too much weight on the opinions of others. My opinion should be taken as just that... my opinion. I even had @bunnspecial bothering me via a private conversation/message here.

Have a bit of class and sense for goodness sake.

 

[bunnspecial]

I even had @bunnspecial bothering me via a private conversation/message here.

I offered you the chance to give me input on my eBay prices-and like any other member of this forum I have the right to send a PM. Report it to the mods if you have an issue with the PM I sent you.

 

[bunnspecial]

I'll also just say that although this forum affords you to the opportunity to post an opinion like " IMO they should allow for 2x the market value and stop there. ", it does not also mean that others are not allowed to challenge that opinion provided that the rules for appropriate debate are followed.

That's a opinion that's bound to be divisive, and if you don't want people disagreeing with it-don't post it!

 

[1042686]

Ohh, this thread was a mistake.

Can't even share a video about old Macs in an old Mac forum without having people get pissed off.

I didn’t think anyone was PO’d. Or at least they shouldn’t have been lol but it looks like some folks felt they were micro aggressed upon *laugh* & threw some shade at Bunn which is just childish. Anyhow, Speaking of PPC & the imacg4, this thread has pushed me to get my iMac g3 reformatted & on the ground for my toddler son to bang around on.

Thanks guys! Lol

 

[Hrududu]

There seems to be no end to glossy videos by pro Youtubers going through the history and specs and filming under sympathetic studio lighting...not so much of anyone actually doing anything with them....

Agreed. Is there anyone out there who is into old Macs that doesn’t already know everything guys like this talk about? We’ve all seen the keynotes, looked at Mactracker, or owned the machines. This dude literally watched the keynote and regurgitated the info almost word for word from Steve’s introduction.

 

[1042686]

Agreed. Is there anyone out there who is into old Macs that doesn’t already know everything guys like this talk about? We’ve all seen the keynotes, looked at Mactracker, or owned the machines. This dude literally watched the keynote and regurgitated the info almost word for word from Steve’s introduction.

Watching the video, he was imo framing the imacg4 history, spec etc. in preparation for the contributors to discuss how they are using their imacg4s. I do think it would’ve been weird to not do that, so in the context of the video, it makes sense & adds value to the viewer - especially those who are not as familiar as folks on this forum.

Another thought I had was that this is a coming together of the YT community, so toobers supporting eachother in a collaborative effort to bring depth & content to a subject that can be difficult to speak to singularly beyond the typical regurgitated talking points being criticized here.

As far as old tech vids go, this one is s pretty good one.

 

[Hrududu]

Watching the video, he was imo framing the imacg4 history, spec etc. in preparation for the contributors to discuss how they are using their imacg4s. I do think it would’ve been weird to not do that, so in the context of the video, it makes sense & adds value to the viewer - especially those who are not as familiar as folks on this forum.

Another thought I had was that this is a coming together of the YT community, so toobers supporting eachother in a collaborative effort to bring depth & content to a subject that can be difficult to speak to singularly beyond the typical regurgitated talking points being criticized here.

As far as old tech vids go, this one is s pretty good one.

I don't disagree the production quality is top notch. No doubt he did a great job with sound, video, and overall look. The problem IMO is content quality. If you want some truly entertaining vintage Mac videos on YouTube, I highly reccomend 65scribe. He typically touches on less-common or older tech, but he recently did one on the Cube. It may not be as artistically pleasing or "enthusiastic" as this guy, but his style, delivery, and content make them far more interesting.

 

[1042686]

Yeah I see what you’re getting at. I’ve watched a few of that guys videos including his cube vid. I like his weird sense of humor but he is pretty dry. When you place the two videos side by side I think they’re really geared towards two different viewer groups. One more so towards enthusiasts who’d hang out here & want the nuts n bolts of it all for example & the other, a broader less minutia focused group that’s into more straightforward application.

It reminds me of the difference say between watching Sunday cooking shows & going to culinary school. One dives deeply into the art, the science, the craft & the history of professional cookery while the other shows you Pragmatic daily application.

Anyhoo, gotta get to work.

 

[timidpimpin]

I didn’t think anyone was PO’d. Or at least they shouldn’t have been lol but it looks like some folks felt they were micro aggressed upon *laugh* & threw some shade at Bunn which is just childish. Anyhow, Speaking of PPC & the imacg4, this thread has pushed me to get my iMac g3 reformatted & on the ground for my toddler son to bang around on.

Thanks guys! Lol

The only thing that PO's me is people being gouged. And just because someone can afford to be gouged doesn't make it right either.

For me it's a moral issue. And I'm not talking in a my morals are better than those who gouge way, but rather that I couldn't ask more than market value for something if I tried. It's just not in me to treat people like cash cows.

I served in the US Army for almost 20 years, and i'm not going to turn around and gouge the same people I previously protected. It makes no sense.

 

[1042686]

That is very noble if somewhat paternalistic but I totally get it - You have a strong moral compass.

An economic market has no morality. It’s nothing more than a system for commerce & wealth creation.To someone with even half a moral compass, that can be a scary idea, (leaving our economic security up to a brainless computer ... I mean system lol) anyhow something to be regulated & controlled. Capitalism in order to flourish needs us as moral creatures to participate towards a goal and determine the ends morality - which is exactly what you’re doing, right?

The individuals ability to judge & project their moral judgement is key to the functionality of capitalism, free market yadda, yadda etc - The slippery & destructive slope is when a singular moral judgement is applied unilaterally to everyone & everything. By doing so, we remove the individuals judgement - their function of choice within the market is diminished. Functionally our individual judgements of value on goods & services collectively influences selling & asking price. It is our job as consumers to do this, not govt or private industry to do this for us. It’s this understandable but flawed desire to control & regulate that fundamentally breaks open & free markets, leaving in its place a need for layers of bureaucracy & govt to prop up a now price-fixed/controlled & sick dysfunctional market.

I’ve always found the intersect of free market capitalism, human morality(us), & morality’s function as both creator & destroyer of markets quite fascinating. Either way, by all means please continue to lay judgement on price gouging buttheads & understand that individually your moral participation rooted in the transference of actual money (to buy or not to buy) maintains a vibrant economy & the heavy-handed bureaucratic approach the destroyer of them.

 

[timidpimpin]

I'm all for capitalism, but not people being gouged on used items. If someone makes a new product that costs a lot, and people are willing to pay the cost, then have at it. But in the used anything market there are preexisting values for things.

And the market value is what should drive the market of a product... not people who charge many times the market value. People who spend a lot on something they should and could have gotten cheaper have less money to buy other products.

 

[1042686]

I'm all for capitalism, but not people being gouged on used items. If someone makes a new product that costs a lot, and people are willing to pay the cost, then have at it. But in the used anything market there are preexisting values for things.

And the market value is what should drive the market of a product... not people who charge many times the market value. People who spend a lot on something they should and could have gotten cheaper have less money to buy other products.

Market valuation DOES drive price & you (and me & everyone else) & our individual choices (ie: our moral judgements) collectively define what that price should be. Sellers can put any asking price they want, but that does not mean you have to or should buy it. So please continue to not pay the high prices you see. Remember -we the consumers always define selling price, not the seller. We have the choice to buy or not. Our actions as consumers define the selling values of goods & services new or used within the market.

In other words, don’t be a schmuck with a pocket full of cash - be a savvy buyer & make intelligent decisions with your capital. Be ready to walk away if it isn’t right. Healthy, rational purchasing decisions set & maintain healthy market selling prices which influence & drive down asking prices of sellers. We as consumers control & drive this function of selling vs asking prices.

 

[bunnspecial]

Ultimately, I go back to the fact that I consider it rather presumptuous for someone-no matter how good their intentions-to dictate what is an "appropriate" price for any item for sale.

A sale requires a willing seller and a willing buyer, and ultimately if both are happy with the price paid, who are we to disagree with that? I know people who will pay a significant premium for things like being able to buy in person, or sellers who will take a lot less money from certain buyers or for paying a certain way(i.e. cash is king).

One of my other big hobbies is collecting American pocket watches(hence my user name). At the beginning of June, a very historically significant watch came up for auction(one of the first three watches made by the company that would be the Waltham Watch Company, and likely one of 6 or fewer of the type).

This was a well publicized auction by a well-known horological auction house that described and documented it extensively before the sale. The hammer fell at $300K, which was nearly double the pre-auction estimate of $160-180K. At the end of the day, though, two people were willing to pay that price(remember, in a standard auction, the under-bidder sets the sale price) and it set a record for American pocket watches. The last I heard, the bidder is quite happy with his purchase. Did he "overpay" because he paid over estimate? In my opinion, no, but other people have criticized the selling price. It should also be noted that this was the first public sale in recent(~50 years) history of this type of watch.

Along those same lines, probably 15 years ago, an Illinois Bunn Special 161B came up for sale and ended up bringing over $40K including the premium(I think the hammer price was $38K). The 161B is a bit of an interesting piece that doesn't really appeal to me, and as such things go it's arguably not terribly difficult to find. I've heard production estimates in the high double digit range, and of one collection that had 40-some odd holed up in it. None the less, the market was "ripe" when that particular one came up for sale, and seeing the final bid, someone offered the under bidder an example for the hammer price-he took it. Since then, a few examples have sold in the $10K range-were the people who bought their watches in the mid-2000s for ~$40K ripped off?

Once again, we come back to a willing seller dealing with a willing buyer.

Also, to bring things back around to PPCs, the market is now dictating that good G3 "Kanga" PowerBooks are worth $250-300. I personally thing that's rather high for what they are, but it's giving me a serious pause as to whether or not it's worth keeping one in my collection-although I won't part with it unless it's at the upper end of that range(MODS-mine is not currently for sale). I'm also getting ready to move another PPC Mac that I honestly have no price basis for-I've never seen a similar one for sale.

 

[1042686]

That’s a great example, Bunn. As a free market system is devoid of moral judgement, its left up to the moral component/judgement of the buyer & seller & if they’re happy, then it was a sound & moral function of commerce & the market.

Holy cow, it worked.

 

[Dronecatcher]

I don't think specialist auctions are a good indicator of what's being discussed here - I wouldn't say that's an arena of exploitation as it's a very exclusive club of wealthy collectors/experts.
This is more the direction I'm critical of:
Some years ago I discovered my local Poundland store was selling Agfa 35mm film at £1 each, I bought a couple of rolls and loaded up my ancient 35mm cameras. The next month I picked up a few more rolls from the pile of about 60 packs in the store - I live in a small town so there wouldn't be much demand for 35mm film. I commented to the cashier about what an amazing find they were but when I went in again they had none - I asked the cashier if they'd stopped selling it, she didn't know but said some man came in the previous week and bought the whole lot. Whether he was an avid photographer or a shrewd investor who loaded up his freezer to sell at a later date, the outcome for me was the same - priced out of budget retro photography.
That's the moral level I think @timidpimpin was touching on - that individual's desire to capitalise on a cheap commodity and screw everyone else who could've benefitted.

 

[MagicBoy]

I wasn't aware that Poundland had a public service obligation to provide budget photography supplies. Anyway you are making sweeping assumptions about the purchaser. Could have been a school teacher stocking up for photography club he ran after school for all we know.

This discussion took a very weird turn.