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1) I personally do not want to hold my iPad at arm's length to avoid seeing pixelation, thanks. :rolleyes:

2) Go watch one of the early episodes of a cartoon show and then compare it to today's episodes. I am thinking of futurama. Trust me, it's easy to notice the difference.

1. I said nothing about arms length. The iPad is held at a further distance than the iPhone.

2. The increase in quality has nothing to do with higher fps, they are all animated at the same fps, it has to do with newer animation techniques and higher budgets.

People think they need a massive resolution to avoid pixelization. To put it in perspective, in the print world most designers are convinced that pixel files need to the 300dpi to avoid pixelization in type when the reality is that 200dpi is all that's needed.
 
vant said:
To keep the 4:3 aspect ratio, we have the following options:

STOCK 1024x768 (132PPI)
1280x960 (165PPI)
1600x1200 (206PPI)
2048x1536 (264PPI)

Based on this, I think it is easily conclude-able that the iPad will never see 300+PPIs for at least half a decade.

Does anyone know a device with a resolution higher than 2048x1536 that costs $500?
 
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Lets get this straight right now and end the debate. iPad 2 WILL NOT have a retina display anything close to 300+ PPI. They WILL however raise the res eventually or keep it at 1024x768 at a small screen size therefor making the display slightly higher in pixel density.

This is common sense if anyone knows what it takes in order to push that many pixels on a screen size this big. In order to have the screen at 300+ PPI, it would have to have a very nice graphics processor only found in desktop computers. Laptop pixel density is in the 100-120 PPI range.

ARGUMENT OVER! :)
 
While I would certainly like to have a slightly higher resolution, can somebody tell me what is exactly wrong with the iPad's display? Yes, it doesn't look as sharp as the Retina display, but tell me please: Do you compare the Retina Display with the display of your MacBook?
I just don't get it...
I believe the ipad has a great display and of course it will become even better with the next iPad generation.
 
Lets get this straight right now and end the debate. iPad 2 WILL NOT have a retina display anything close to 300+ PPI. They WILL however raise the res eventually or keep it at 1024x768 at a small screen size therefor making the display slightly higher in pixel density.

This is common sense if anyone knows what it takes in order to push that many pixels on a screen size this big. In order to have the screen at 300+ PPI, it would have to have a very nice graphics processor only found in desktop computers. Laptop pixel density is in the 100-120 PPI range.

ARGUMENT OVER! :)

Eight years ago the Powerbook G4 could push 1280x854 AND 2048x1536 simultaneously as dual displays (not mirroring). I think the next iPad will have the horsepower to push a much higher res screen.
 
Not necessarily. Its possible that screen with a lower ppi, 250 for example, can achieve the effect at a further reading distance. It won't be as clean as the iPhone 4's screen but you won't see the pixels.

The human eye only needs 12-15fps to perceive fluid motion. While 30fps provides cleaner motion, its not necessary.

Your first statement is correct, becauser the iPad is used at a greater distance from the eyes (at as far as I have observed) than the iPhone.

However, your second statement is somewhat flawed - sure the human brain is capable of inferring motion from a minimum of 12 frames, but only for very small movements (i.e. when something is moving slowly or only over a shot distance), but for faster motion we require more FPS - the human eye is capable of detecting irregularities in motion up to (and in some cases over) 60 FPS - this manifests itself as blurring, which is a bad thing when watching sports, action movies or gaming. I'm pretty sure that some of the more complex animations (e.g. app switching) require more in the 25+ FPS range to look smooth.
 
While I would certainly like to have a slightly higher resolution, can somebody tell me what is exactly wrong with the iPad's display? Yes, it doesn't look as sharp as the Retina display, but tell me please: Do you compare the Retina Display with the display of your MacBook?
I just don't get it...
I believe the ipad has a great display and of course it will become even better with the next iPad generation.

The screen on the current iPad is very nice. :)

However, the problem is, people are pushing the resolving power a bit too far, and in some instances, actually in quite a few instances actually, there are just not enough dots on the screen to clearly resolve the typeface.

This is not the fault of the iPad as such, it's just that to smoothly and clearly render a nice clear character you need a certain amount of pixels.

Even websites in portrait mode are pretty much pushing it to the limit.

Some newspapers are actually impossible to render as there just are not enough dots there to create the characters so you end up with a blurry shape.

So, it's not the iPads fault as such, it's just that people are pushing it beyond what the screen can do.

To be honest, you would really need to double the res to 2048x1536 in both directions to render some of what people are trying to do today with some clarity.

I know it's been said a hundred times it can't be done yet.

My views are, YES, Apple can make the screen.

If you can make the 3.5" iPhone screen with that pixel density then, after a year of perfecting the technique I'm 100% certain in the factory they could make a 10" display with a 2048x1536 resolution.

I'm positive it could be made. Especially, as I say they have had a year to perfect the manufacturing on the iPhone4 screens.

The only problem is moving that many pixels around.

First, Again, I think we all know the iPad could, probably even now happily display a static image in that screen res. It's shifting them about which is the problem.

I have an idea, and it may be totally stupid, but it's just an idea.

Perhaps, and I know this is a BIG PERHAPS, you could develop some tech in the screen controller, to effectively pixel double (in hardware) the screen for moving?

So, for a static screen, perhaps web browsing, or book reading, all that sort of things, then the full res could be used, and we could have crystal clear tiny typefaces with double the current screen res.

Perhaps, and it is a BIG PERHAPS, for games, for the time being, some hardware pixel doubling chip could be used, so the iPad is only actually shifting the same graphics res around, but it's passed to this chip that moves 4 pixels instead of one, on the new display.

As I say I'm making this up, but I could see the logic that something like this may technically be possible.

Anyone care to comment?
 
While I would certainly like to have a slightly higher resolution, can somebody tell me what is exactly wrong with the iPad's display? Yes, it doesn't look as sharp as the Retina display, but tell me please: Do you compare the Retina Display with the display of your MacBook?
I just don't get it...
I believe the ipad has a great display and of course it will become even better with the next iPad generation.
Here's a real life example. There is a design flaw in a product called Evernote that causes notes formatted to display correctly on the user's PC to be mangled once synced to the iPad and iPhone. I find 10 point Arial to be the comfortable size to use for the normal text size for stuff I create on my PC but when I sync those notes to my iPad and iPhone there is no facility in Evernote to map font sizes to accommodate the different way that the devices render and so that 10 point font, that was perfect when viewed on my 23" desktop monitor, comes out absolutely tiny when viewed on my mobile devices. The thing here though is that, even though I would prefer it to be bigger, I can just about work with the notes on my iPhone 4 at normal reading distance without needing to zoom in to read them. On the iPad screen I need to either hold the screen about 6 inches from my face or else zoom in to view the text, it just isn't possible to work with it otherwise.

That extra ppi on the iPhone screen makes it practical to work with smaller font sizes and with a spreadsheet (for instance) I believe that on a ppi-doubled screen I would be able to zoom out my spreadsheets a bit and hence get more cells on the screen at once which would make a big difference in usability.

- Julian (predicting a doubling of the ppi for iPad 3 or 4)
 
Eight years ago the Powerbook G4 could push 1280x854 AND 2048x1536 simultaneously as dual displays (not mirroring). I think the next iPad will have the horsepower to push a much higher res screen.

Very true. Did you ever try running a 3D game on that machine with that high of a res as get more than 10 FPS......The answer is NO. Sure we can have a higher res display but try running a 3D game as well as the iPad currently does. Once again, I'm just asking people to THINK about this argument realistically.
 
People think they need a massive resolution to avoid pixelization. To put it in perspective, in the print world most designers are convinced that pixel files need to the 300dpi to avoid pixelization in type when the reality is that 200dpi is all that's needed.
The reality is that I can easily tell the quality difference between e.g. a Droid X with 227 ppi and an iPhone 4 with 326 ppi.

While I would certainly like to have a slightly higher resolution, can somebody tell me what is exactly wrong with the iPad's display? Yes, it doesn't look as sharp as the Retina display, but tell me please: Do you compare the Retina Display with the display of your MacBook?
I don't have a MacBook, but if I could replace my monitors for ones with twice the linear resolution for three times the price I would. To me the difference is just huge.

Very true. Did you ever try running a 3D game on that machine with that high of a res as get more than 10 FPS......The answer is NO. Sure we can have a higher res display but try running a 3D game as well as the iPad currently does. Once again, I'm just asking people to THINK about this argument realistically.
Even assuming the next iPad keeps the same GPU (same GPU as the iPhone 3GS): High resolution matters most for the basic UI and text, which is not as expensive to render as you think.
Games, on the other hand, can be scaled up practically for free. Most console games are scaled up when you use a 1080p screen.
 
It'll get a really high dpi someday, and they'll call it a retina display. When that day comes, I'll be ready. I'll still be getting next gen. though. The user experience on one is awesome. Not that I needed to tell you that ;)
 
I've said this several times and I'll say it again:

1) The only way scaling can work on the iPad like it does on the iPhone 4 is if the new resolution is an exact increment of the original resolution.

Let's say Apple bumped the resolution up 50% (1.5x current) to 1536x1152, an iPad app with a control with uneven dimensions, say 101x101 pixels, would be scaled to 151.5x151.5 pixels, considering you can't have half a pixel you'll have graphic issues thus this is a no go.

2) It is very unlikely that Apple will choose to increase the resolution of iPad (without scaling) as that would require developers supporting two different resolutions for the iPad, thus, more work.

What Apple did with the iPhone 4 was brilliant, the OS automatically scales the app up, all you need to do is provide high res images. It's incredibly easy and seamless for developers to write iPhone apps and support the higher resolution iPhone 4, I can't imagine Apple not doing this with the iPad, and making more work for developers.
 
The reality is that I can easily tell the quality difference between e.g. a Droid X with 227 ppi and an iPhone 4 with 326 ppi.

I can see pixelization on my Driod X when held five inches from my face; however, when held ten or more inches away, a realistic distance for most iPad usage cases, I do not see the same pixelization.

Also, ppi aside, the iPhone's screen is higher quality than the Droid's so the Droid X will look inferior regardless.
 
I can see pixelization on my Driod X when held five inches from my face; however, when held ten or more inches away, a realistic distance for most iPad usage cases, I do not see the same pixelization.

Also, ppi aside, the iPhone's screen is higher quality than the Droid's so the Droid X will look inferior regardless.
While that's true I only meant the difference in pixel density. I agree a tablet can get away with slightly lower pixel density than a phone, but I don't think 200 ppi are "all that's needed".
 
Personally, seeing the number of dots that are available for the iPad to create it's typeface from.

It would be totally pointless to increase the res a bit.

It would just not make enough of a difference to be worth all the trouble it would be.

At the least you would have to bump it up to 1.5x the current resolution to make any real noticable difference.

A tiny character that may be formed from 6 pixels across would then get 9 pixels, but it's not a LOT different.

Seeing as Apps and Games and Photo's have no real need for the higher resolution. Just small typefaces (where you can see the jaggies and the lack of resolution)

I'd rather Apple do nothing for iPad2 but double the current res, in some magical way, for iPad3

And yes, I would love more than anything a resolution double for iPad2, but I just can't see it happen.

They need to work out a clever way to shift 4x the current pixels about.
 
I guess people dont know how technology works. Even if they were capable of putting one in they would not put it in right away. You have to save features so you can implement them on the next next device, if you get everything in 1 device what would be the point of upgrading to the next one.

That's not how it works at all.

You save features when:
( A ) The implementation isn't quite there yet, or it might fracture the user base.
( B ) The price tradeoff is not worth it for the product
( C ) The hardware requirements force other tradeoffs (size, battery life, etc)

A retina display on the iPad fails pretty hard by these standards. It would cost a lot. It would suck up more power in itself. It would require beefier CPU/GPU to run, sucking more battery life, and possibly making the product thicker or run hotter. And developers would have to do more work to add even higher resolution imagery, and you fragment the user base by having some applications that won't be able to run on the older, less-beefy-CPU hardware.


Could Apple make it? Sure. But not without having either no battery life, or having a huge battery, or costing a small fortune, none of which would sell that well. It's not about deliberately leaving out features. They'll implement the technology when the time is right (i.e., the CPU/GPU catches up on its own, it becomes cheaper, batteries get smaller or the power requirements to do become less).
 
Personally, seeing the number of dots that are available for the iPad to create it's typeface from.

It would be totally pointless to increase the res a bit.

It would just not make enough of a difference to be worth all the trouble it would be.

At the least you would have to bump it up to 1.5x the current resolution to make any real noticable difference.

A tiny character that may be formed from 6 pixels across would then get 9 pixels, but it's not a LOT different.

Seeing as Apps and Games and Photo's have no real need for the higher resolution. Just small typefaces (where you can see the jaggies and the lack of resolution)

I'd rather Apple do nothing for iPad2 but double the current res, in some magical way, for iPad3

And yes, I would love more than anything a resolution double for iPad2, but I just can't see it happen.

They need to work out a clever way to shift 4x the current pixels about.

I can definitely see the pixel difference, rather significantly I might add. I would LOVE a retina display. 20/10 vision and all...I've gotten far too used to my iPhone 4. :/

Increasing the resolution by a little, to 1280x1024 perhaps, is definitely viable, but you run in to issues along the way with the scaling looking bad.
 
I don't have a MacBook, but if I could replace my monitors for ones with twice the linear resolution for three times the price I would. To me the difference is just huge.

Even assuming the next iPad keeps the same GPU (same GPU as the iPhone 3GS)

The 3GS doesn't even use the same chipset as the iPad. ~623 MHz vs. 1.1 GHz. Also, don't forget the $2,000 you'll spend to buy new graphics cards.
 
It means ppi dense enough to eliminate the eye's ability to distinguish individual pixels at normal viewing

if that is your definition then the iPad already has one

As for what this rumored tech is, my vote goes for something under the hood to support things like Unreal without destroying battery life.

Or this new tech could be to put a front facing camera under the screen rather that up in a corner.

Or it could be tied to the actual glass for the screen. Perhaps they are working on something with less glare.

Who knows at this point
 
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I don't see Apple upgrading the resolution at all. The constant resolution shifts have to be a burden for developers. I think Apple will only upgrade the resolution when they can do so substantially. Nothing less than 1600x1200. Probably on iPad 3. iPhone only got an upgrade from its original resolution when the competition was starting fierce. Right now, there is still no real competition and there won't be for some time.
 
I don't see Apple upgrading the resolution at all. The constant resolution shifts have to be a burden for developers. I think Apple will only upgrade the resolution when they can do so substantially. Nothing less than 1600x1200. Probably on iPad 3. iPhone only got an upgrade from its original resolution when the competition was starting fierce. Right now, there is still no real competition and there won't be for some time.

No, they have to double it, or nothing :D
 
Guys. Let's look at this logistically. For the iPad to have a Retina display, the resolution would have to be something like 2880x1440.

There is no 9.7" display that has anywhere NEAR that capability, nor will there be for at least another two years.

Will the next iPad have a higher pixel density? Maybe. But a "retina" display as we know it today? No.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Fact: you don't know $#!T.
 
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