the iPad Wifi Model has GPS

[Mark Booth]

Skyhok is actually very good in cities even if one cannot connect to the hotspot. They literally drive around everywhere there r streets and people and sniff all the wifi signals. Categorize them.. And then build a map with gps Lon/lat detail so when you SEE that signal it can place you....

Skyhook WAS pretty cool on the original iPhone because it also had a full-time connection to the internet via its cellular radio.

On the WiFi-only iPad, Skyhook WAP will suck unless all those WiFi signals you detect ALSO allow you to connect to through them to the internet. They won't, so Skyhook will suck on the WiFi-only iPad.

Mark

 

[dagamer34]

Skyhook WAS pretty cool on the original iPhone because it also had a full-time connection to the internet via its cellular radio.

On the WiFi-only iPad, Skyhook WAP will suck unless all those WiFi signals you detect ALSO allow you to connect to through them to the internet. They won't, so Skyhook will suck on the WiFi-only iPad.

Mark

Well, location data is pointless unless you've got an internet connection to go with it. And if you've got an internet connection, then that means you've got a WiFi signal!

 

[cmaier]

Well, location data is pointless unless you've got an internet connection to go with it. And if you've got an internet connection, then that means you've got a WiFi signal!

That doesn't follow. Several of the GPS apps have all the maps on board. They are useful without an internet connection (assuming you could have functional GPS w/o an internet connection, which is possible-but sucky-with assisted-GPS but not with wifi-location).

 

[Mark Booth]

Well, location data is pointless unless you've got an internet connection to go with it. And if you've got an internet connection, then that means you've got a WiFi signal!

Sure, on the WiFi-only model! But on the 3G model, you can have an internet connection when you don't have a WiFi signal! Plus the 3G model actually does have a GPS. The 3G model is the only one that makes sense for any type of location services app.

Mark

 

[CocoaPuffs]

Notice how big your circle is outside of your blue dot? That's basically saying you can be anywhere within that circle, which is a sure sign that iPad does not have GPS.

 

[alanrobinson553]

Hi, I bought an ipad 64gb wifi only model in the states.

I also bought a mifi device - on 3 UK network which has no gps in it, which turns a 3g signal in to a wifi signal so that I can surf the internet on my ipad whilst out and about.

After seeing how accurate the maps application was at finding my location, I installed the copilot application which I bought for my iphone and ran it. I took it out in my car and connected to wifi using my 3 mifi device. Copilot worked and gave me turn by turn directions - and in settings within copilot the gps setting showed a 3d gps lock.

Surely this proves that the wifi only model has 3g???

I'm a happy bunny anyhow.

Just to clarify as well, the 3 uk mifi device definately does not how gps in it, and it was in the glovebox of the car.

Alan

 

[owazio]

What is ipad is missing check it here i think the future ipads will be more improved since a lot of people are complaining, i do complain about it even though i like it

 

[TangoDown]

This thread has cheered me up no end. Hilarious!

 

[nixiemaiden]

The wifi triangulation works really well for me and that bothers me. I think it is cool but at the same time it is really freaky knowing that skyhook has a database with my private internet connection in it.

 

[nateo200]

I can't believe their is an entire thread dedicated to this lol. I have a wifi only iPad tethered to my phone. In urban areas GPS works pretty well but go out to a field and you'll get zip.

 

[tivoboy]

well

The wifi triangulation works really well for me and that bothers me. I think it is cool but at the same time it is really freaky knowing that skyhook has a database with my private internet connection in it.

Well, technically they don't know it is YOURS, but it is out there. the only way to change this would be to NOT broadcast your SSID, simple enough to do.

But, they COULD figure out who you are most likely if they REALLY wanted to, that IS scary

 

[nixiemaiden]

Well, technically they don't know it is YOURS, but it is out there. the only way to change this would be to NOT broadcast your SSID, simple enough to do.

But, they COULD figure out who you are most likely if they REALLY wanted to, that IS scary

Well what freaks me out about it is that when I view the maps...it shows me inside my house! When I go and visit my parents...it shows me inside their house!

How far does my SSID get broadcasted that they can see that? I can't even get a signal outside of my house! lol

 

[tivoboy]

trust me

trust me, they have done a driveby at some point.

 

[nateo200]

Well what freaks me out about it is that when I view the maps...it shows me inside my house! When I go and visit my parents...it shows me inside their house!

How far does my SSID get broadcasted that they can see that? I can't even get a signal outside of my house! lol

Far in excess that you would be able to connect to it. I've seen with some pretty serious equipment an SSID broadcasted about a 1.5 miles away. My high school has about 2 miles in back of it with a road behind it, every time I drive behind it with my iPad it triangulates right to the school, of course the school has some serious directional antennas but still their are hills and trees. Let's just say your SSID goes much farther than your device can pick up. Oh and your SSID is actively giving information about your router every second to potential clients, it's just the nature of the standard.

 

[tivoboy]

not router

some routers of course have bigger radios, and one can also adjust the broadcast power on many radios and software installs, and antennas can of course give better range/distance.

but, with good COLLECTION equipment, one can connect to a signal from miles away. I used to use a starbucks in town as my internet connection with a Cantenna and external powered receiver. That was .75 miles away in a city and required login and authentication.

While war-driving around a city with directional rangefinder antennas, the googles of the world and skyhooks can easily SEE and triangulate all those signals. Also, more business minded wifi hotspots actually put in their LON/LAT so they can be listed on websites and wifi lookup services AND with skyhook. you can do it too with skyhook if you really wanted to.

 

[nateo200]

some routers of course have bigger radios, and one can also adjust the broadcast power on many radios and software installs, and antennas can of course give better range/distance.

but, with good COLLECTION equipment, one can connect to a signal from miles away. I used to use a starbucks in town as my internet connection with a Cantenna and external powered receiver. That was .75 miles away in a city and required login and authentication.

While war-driving around a city with directional rangefinder antennas, the googles of the world and skyhooks can easily SEE and triangulate all those signals. Also, more business minded wifi hotspots actually put in their LON/LAT so they can be listed on websites and wifi lookup services AND with skyhook. you can do it too with skyhook if you really wanted to.

It's not unrealistic at all. How do you think cell sites work? Fun stuff to mess with though...

 

[tivoboy]

It's not unrealistic at all. How do you think cell sites work? Fun stuff to mess with though...

huh? I didn't say anything is unrealistic.

But, a cell tower is going to have much great range for a number of reasons, not the least of which is they put out about 100 watt PER CHANNEL, that is most likely 200x what a wifi base station is normally putting out 42 mW, I have mine set to 84 though.

 

[Dhelsdon]

This thread has become a very good read! On more then a few posts I Found myself thinking "hmm, I didn't know that"

But on a side note, I saw another thread where a user bought an external GPS and used a jb with two different apps for full turn by turn gps! That's what I am going to do.

 

[Ciclismo]

The iphone 3gs and the ipad 3g+wifi both only have assissted gps according to apples website...

AGPS is superior to GPS in that it uses information from a network to mitigate signal issues often experienced in urban areas. It's fuctioning is often also augmented by the integration of other locationing technologies such as WiFi locationing and the use of cellular towers. This gives the user faster positioning acquisition times, in comparison to just GPS sattelites alone. It also has the additional benefit that in densly populated areas where GPS sattelite signals may be lost due to obstructions and interference (e.g. buildings, other radio signals) to the point where AGPS cannot compensate any more, the information provided by WiFi signals and cellular network towers may be sufficient to continue accurate positioning.

Therefore AGPS>GPS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

 

[nateo200]

AGPS is superior to GPS in that uses information from a network to mitigate signal issues often experienced in urban areas. It's fuctioning is often also augmented by the integration of other locationing technologies such as WiFi locationing and the use of cellular towers. This gives the user faster positioning acquisition times, in comparison to just GPS sattelites alone. It also has the additional benefit that in densly populated areas where GPS sattelite signals may be lost due to obstructions and interference (e.g. buildings, other radio signals) to the point where AGPS cannot compensate any more, the information provided by WiFi signals and cellular network towers may be sufficient to continue accurate positioning.

Therefore AGPS>GPS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

Finally someone does their reading before they post....

 

[sananda]

Apple doesn't use Skyhook with the newer iOSes. Just millions of iPhone (and iPad 3G) users faithfully reporting back wifi locations every 12 hours. Seems to give pretty accurate results judging by this thread!

 

[rikbrown]

Apple doesn't use Skyhook with the newer iOSes. Just millions of iPhone (and iPad 3G) users faithfully reporting back wifi locations every 12 hours. Seems to give pretty accurate results judging by this thread!

How exactly does one report an incorrect location to Apple?

 

[jlpoore89]

Can someone explain how wifi based gps can do this? When we moved into our new house one of the first things we did was go to the cable company and have our Internet turned on. 10 minutes later we were at home and I setup up my Airport Extreme and the modem. As soon as it was setup my wifi only iPad could locate me within 1-2 meters inside my house. How could any database have the location of a just created wifi network connected to a just activated Internet connection? I mean my location was found within 20-30 minutes of me having my Internet commotion activated at the cable office.

And it does the same thing when I set up a new wifi network at my apartment at school. It can instantly locate me on a brand new wio network.

 

[Ciclismo]

Can someone explain how wifi based gps can do this? When we moved into our new house one of the first things we did was go to the cable company and have our Internet turned on. 10 minutes later we were at home and I setup up my Airport Extreme and the modem. As soon as it was setup my wifi only iPad could locate me within 1-2 meters inside my house. How could any database have the location of a just created wifi network connected to a just activated Internet connection? I mean my location was found within 20-30 minutes of me havingy Internet commotion activated at the cable office.

And it does the same thing when I set up a new wifi network at my apartment at school. It can instantly locate me on a brand new wio network.

Because it can.

It could be that there are neighbouring networks which are already registered and the instant that you hook up your wireless and use the locationing service, it registers your WiFi position (determined through triangulation) and then registers the new WiFi position for future reference.

Additionally, from my understanding, your physical location is not an abstract for a location based service - your connection goes through an exchange to your house via specific trunk lines, and (a.f.a. I k.) all of these connection points have known physical locations.

But these are all just assumptions, and we know whose mother Assumptions is.

 

[jlpoore89]

Because it can.

It could be that there are neighbouring networks which are already registered and the instant that you hook up your wireless and use the locationing service, it registers your WiFi position (determined through triangulation) and then registers the new WiFi position for future reference.

Additionally, from my understanding, your physical location is not an abstract for a location based service - your connection goes through an exchange to your house via specific trunk lines, and (a.f.a. I k.) all of these connection points have known physical locations.

But these are all just assumptions, and we know whose mother Assumptions is.

Thanks. I never thought about the fact that even though my iPad is connected to my "new," it's not new anymore, network it was still sending and receiving information from all of the networks within range, which are possibly already logged in the location database. And I guess because of the way cable networks are setup, the location of my modem is known by my ISP and therefore is locatable.