The Mac mini 2024 actually has socketed SSD

[Mr.Fox]

While the hottest spots are on the heatsink and top at 60 Celsius, so what is the problem? If the hottest part is not the heatsink, you have a bigger problem.


Aerodynamic engineering is not elementary experiments, it relies on computation and CFD simulations. Huge centrifugal fans does push air towards a direction as long as the fan is powerful enough, which is the case when the M4 Pro was set to high performance mode which will vastly increases the fan speed.

Further discussion seems a bit like hijack of the thread so I don't want to continue here. If you insist it is a bad design and it is limiting the performance, I hope you can give more concrete proof other than "I think".

Topic hijacking? No, I was just giving my opinion. Is this a forum, or can't you post anything here? ))))
You keep arguing while overlooking the details that the thermal imager itself shows. I will give you and other participants a little direction on where to look. Are you not confused or bothered by the crescent-shaped heat trace that forms inside the housing and is picked up even through the plastic housing?
Are you sure about that, that the largest heat point is 60 degrees Celsius? What kind of thermal imager is it? Matrix size, sensitivity, error and calibration please show It's 65-67 degrees Celsius at the nozzle exit, closer to the grill it's 70 degrees Celsius and 95-97 degrees Celsius at the radiator, what's further - you have to remove the cover and look at the heat signature.
Aerodynamic engineering and further down the line....Do you! And people thought that this is a test of a cucumber on aerodynamics, and here it is here)))).
Where and in what place there is a huge fan? Photographs to the studio.
Why do you need to give more evidence, argue and try to convince? A person who understands it will see all the faults I have already reported. An inexperienced dilettante will convince the opposite

 

[Gnattu]

My last response to this topic as it is not relevant to this thread (if you want feel free to open a new thread called "new mac mini thermal sucks" and discuss there).

What kind of thermal imager is it?

It is an FLIR ONE Pro. If you think this camera is off you are welcomed to post your own measurements (in another thread preferably.

Are you sure about that, that the largest heat point is 60 degrees Celsius?.... It's 65-67 degrees Celsius at the nozzle exit, closer to the grill it's 70 degrees Celsius and 95-97 degrees Celsius at the radiator

 

[NewOldStock]

Glad to see the MR engineers at work re-designing apples new hardware as usual.

 

[LelandHendrix]

Except it is not throttling? Or not throttling that bad as you think it is. There is already plenty of reviews out there and you can see it.

Also, the aerodynamics is actually doing its job and you can clearly see the hot air exhusting direction from FILR:View attachment 2448749

Just don’t bother. What people claim is impossible is proven possible every day with engineering. Armchair engineering and naysaying.

 

[subjonas]

It's 65-67 degrees Celsius at the nozzle exit, closer to the grill it's 70 degrees Celsius and 95-97 degrees Celsius at the radiator,

Can you provide the source for these numbers? Did I miss it?

 

[EugW]

Upgrade of M4 Mac mini 256 GB to 1 TB successful!

P.S. Check out the monitor he's using.

 

[waloshin]

My last response to this topic as it is not relevant to this thread (if you want feel free to open a new thread called "new mac mini thermal sucks" and discuss there).


It is an FLIR ONE Pro. If you think this camera is off you are welcomed to post your own measurements (in another thread preferably.

View attachment 2448760

View attachment 2448759

That’s nothing now come measure my desktop it’s like a space heater!

 

[waloshin]

Upgrade of M4 Mac mini 256 GB to 1 TB successful!

P.S. Check out the monitor he's using.

That is too much work for 99% of users.

 

[EugW]

That is too much work for 99% of users.

I'd say that is impossible for 99% of users actually. Plus just the cost of the NAND chips makes it not worth it, at least in North America and Europe.

However, it is still cool to see, especially since he was using both an iMac G4 and a Cinema HD Display as monitors. 🤓

 

[brilliantthings]

Upgrade of M4 Mac mini 256 GB to 1 TB successful!

P.S. Check out the monitor he's using.

He’s done it! And he didnt even need the custom French-made board for the NANDs that he’s used in the past.

 

[Chuckeee]

I'd say that is impossible for 99% of users actually.

Agree except I doubt it would be possible for 1% users, I would suspect the number is much smaller than 1 in a 100.

But it is still fascinating.

 

[Chancha]

He’s done it! And he didnt even need the custom French-made board for the NANDs that he’s used in the past.

Never followed his guy, but AFAIK, what he has done to the M4 mini in this video can be done on almost all other Macs without needing a custom board?

 

[ThomasJL]

So it's not soldered, but it is still proprietary, and thus not user-upgradable. That is yet more of Tim Cook's anti-consumer practices.

 

[DrWojtek]

Except it is not throttling? Or not throttling that bad as you think it is. There is already plenty of reviews out there and you can see it.

Also, the aerodynamics is actually doing its job and you can clearly see the hot air exhusting direction from FILR:View attachment 2448749

But his worst fear, it was confirmed?! How is this possible

 

[dosdude1]

Never followed his guy, but AFAIK, what he has done to the M4 mini in this video can be done on almost all other Macs without needing a custom board?

Yes, it is possible on all Apple Silicon systems with soldered SSDs, and on the Mac Studio, which also has removable modules. Only catch with the Studio is you need a second module to upgrade to 4TB or 8TB, which is where @gilles_polysoft's custom modules come in to help. I have a number of videos on my channel detailing these NAND upgrades on various different Apple Silicon Macs.

 

[Tago]

Believe the electronics diy squads would be able to carry this out fairly easily. If I were to do it, it would be the youtube way - monkey see, monkey do.

...and for that, there are several caveats:

• Getting the right modules, do they match or go beyond Apple`s own quality plus layering and so forth. Reliability.
• Potential transfer rate / bandwidth issues.
• If people have the tools, fine. If not, there`s not a lot needed and the tools are not expensive, but if having to purchase it all for one single modification of one single Mini (or whatever), the costs have to be added to that single modification.
• One has to understand the precision required for mounting the new modules, and be capable of it. Needs good hands.
• The amount of time required to do this for a first timer. Maybe working overtime with whatever one does for a living and spend the profit might lower the fiscal benefit of diy.
• Reselling a modified Mini a few years ahead would be a challenge, and the additional loss may (will most likely) exceed the savings.

By all means, people doing this stuff is fun, interesting and beneficial, quite like it, and I would probably be able to do it. But I won`t, as it won`t pay off and is not worth the risk of needing to replace the SSD with an original from Apple if damaging it.

If storage was that important to me, I`d bump storage up one notch and get a portable SSD to store stuff I don`t really need (completed projects and old files) on. Already have that.

The money and time spent on a one time only diy project like this, purchasing everything needed, would bring people within reach of a Mini Pro which has the benefit of bandwidth AND Thunderbolt 5 transfer rates, which would make external SSD`s even more useful.

Thus, the outtake as far as I`m concerned is that it proves what we already know. The only difference in production costs between various storage (and ram) options from Apple boils down to the cost of the logistics/storage of additional variations (about zero or profitable for Apple because they already have that variation and one can remove the lower capacity chips from their supply chain).

It boils down to one single factor, Apples inbound price differences between different capacities of raw chips. There`s no additional production or design costs. The spec upgrade ladders for Apple products is hugely profitable, and as has been said by scores of Mac users for years and years, there is no justifiable technical or practical reason for Apple to charge what they do for bumping up specs. Knew that, and we all do.

 

[boak]

there is no justifiable technical or practical reason for Apple to charge what they do for bumping up specs.

There is: to keep the base price low. High end specs always subsidise low end specs.

 

[Tago]

There is: to keep the base price low. High end specs always subsidise low end specs.

Aware of that, which is commercial / product tier strategies and not, as I said, technical or practical.

Beg to differ about the term subsidies though. The first tier products are profitable, I don`t believe Apple ever manufacture Macs, iPhones or perpherials bestowed with no profit margin. What they do is countering the lower profits, but that are not subsidies.

 

[Jamie0003]

It’s insane to me Apple continues to get away with having user replaceable parts, but lock them down to make it next to impossible for anyone but themselves to upgrade or repair the thing. Hope the EU goes after them for this in future

They could’ve easily made these normal NVME drives

 

[Gnattu]

They could’ve easily made these normal NVME drives

Easy? Yes, but at some cost. Integrated nvme controller in the SoC helps reduce power consumption also makes Apple’s full disk encryption guarantee so that nobody can just remove your nand and read your data, it was previously done by the external T2 chip which is huge.

What Apple can do if they want is to provide a normal nvme slot in addition to their self-designed storage just like Sony did on its PS5, and remind user that the normal nvme is not encrypted and does not have the same secure level as their own. However, with thunderbolt, you can do that even now, just with a not so elegant external box.

 

[Tago]

Maybe it`s just me, but I actually don`t mind soldered SSD`s apart from it being a likely candidate for malfunction and replacement. Yeah, I get the contradiction. Given it holds up for the longevity of the mac which should be 10 years, I gladly would accept soldered if that helps on system performance - bandwidth ++. If they get the same bandwidth and R/W speeds with slotted SSD`s, fine.

 

[Jamie0003]

Easy? Yes, but at some cost. Integrated nvme controller in the SoC helps reduce power consumption also makes Apple’s full disk encryption guarantee so that nobody can just remove your nand and read your data, it was previously done by the external T2 chip which is huge.

What Apple can do if they want is to provide a normal nvme slot in addition to their self-designed storage just like Sony did on its PS5, and remind user that the normal nvme is not encrypted and does not have the same secure level as their own. However, with thunderbolt, you can do that even now, just with a not so elegant external box.

Except, base model has thunderbolt 4 which isn’t as fast as internal. To get TB5 you have to spend more for the m4 pro

 

[EugW]

Except, base model has thunderbolt 4 which isn’t as fast as internal. To get TB5 you have to spend more for the m4 pro

Thunderbolt 4 drives run faster than the M4's internal 256 GB drive, which is good enough for most people. And if it isn't good enough, you have the option of buying the M4 Pro model.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Is there physical room for Apple to potentially add a second slot in a future model?

 

[EugW]

Is there physical room for Apple to potentially add a second slot in a future model?

Probably, but why bother? It's already theoretically possible to put 4 TB in an M4 Mac mini and we already have 8 TB in the M4 Pro Mac mini with available chips. Apple is definitely not going to put an M.2 slot in the Mac mini.