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As 2023 begins to draw to a close, on this week's episode of The MacRumors Show we take your questions about Apple rumors and more.


We answer your queries about the chances of another Apple event for Vision Pro, whether the device really has the potential to replace the Mac, and the potential "failure" of the headset. We also talk MacBook Air accessories, when new HomePod models could launch, the potential of more iPad models adopting a landscape front-facing camera, and the usefulness of MagSafe charging on next-generation iPad Pro models, as well as when we could see an iOS 17 update that adds app sideloading capabilities in the EU.

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Article Link: The MacRumors Show: 2024 Apple Rumor Q&A
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
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Silicon Valley, CA
Vision Pro will fail until it can be made at 20% of the weight, volume and price.
Certainly rumors of a lighter. lower cost headset for the masses being worked on, following the first gen Vision Pro headset from Apple whenever it goes public in 2024. (Feb?) This will as they said likely not constitute an event, but just still well detailed announcement.
 
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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
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Vision Pro will fail until it can be made at 20% of the weight, volume and price.
Ok, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, remember people are happily spending up to 2k on a smartphone today…
It’s going to be a long road and only time will tell but there is huge potential with this
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
10,032
15,015
Silicon Valley, CA
Oh oh, let me say it, let me say it!!! Apple will present a new iPhone 😬
Before the $3.5k USD Vision Pro showed up, we were all speculating that Apple could use AR to enhance viewing web content and AR enhanced apps on a 2D screen such as a iPhone or iPad. It's shown right on their website.

That right there would attract the masses comparably.
 

DFZD

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2012
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Ok, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, remember people are happily spending up to 2k on a smartphone today…
It’s going to be a long road and only time will tell but there is huge potential with this
Most people spend around $999.. in fact even the US average is around $550-650 I think.. and most of those people use smartphone as their only computing device. So taking all that in account, the comparison with a smartphone is not just unfair, its also incorrect.

Also until it becomes its own category, the Vision Pro is going to be perceived as a VR Set.

Total VR Set Sales in 2023 were only 7.5 Million. Of this 7.5M, Around 5.5M are Meta's Oculus sets. So considering that Apple doesn't really have a gaming console to tie this up with.. we'll be really surprised if Apple sells even a Million of these sets at this price and in this form.

I'm not saying the product doesn't show promise.. I'm just saying that the top down approach for a product we don't know we need may not work for the mass market. Do remember that most Apple Premium products like Watch Ultra, iPad Pro and iPhone Pro Max took the bottom up approach.. in fact the iPhone X, no matter how iconic had underwhelming sales.
 

Edsel

macrumors 6502a
Mar 18, 2010
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Over There
Here is a schematic of the next generation HomePod.;)
00rcs.jpg
 
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Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
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I'm not saying the product doesn't show promise.. I'm just saying that the top down approach for a product we don't know we need may not work for the mass market. Do remember that most Apple Premium products like Watch Ultra, iPad Pro and iPhone Pro Max took the bottom up approach.. in fact the iPhone X, no matter how iconic had underwhelming sales.
If you pitching to a business the top down approach is common, but to convince consumers it usually the bottom up method to build demand as you suggest. For example a lot of the AR setups for medical usage are quite expensive. Such using patient medical data/imagery to superimpose on a patient for accurate surgery that just wasn't possible a few years ago. IMHO Vision Pro will not be a consumer device, it will be more of an experimental for some enthusiasts, business mostly, and mostly angled to grow 3D app's and 3D content which is negligible now. Going with that last thought thats what Apple is betting on. :cool:
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,830
25,670
If you pitching to a business the top down approach is common, but to convince consumers it usually the bottom up method to build demand as you suggest. For example a lot of the AR setups for medical usage are quite expensive. Such using patient medical data/imagery to superimpose on a patient for accurate surgery that just wasn't possible a few years ago. IMHO Vision Pro will not be a consumer device, it will be more of an experimental for some enthusiasts, business mostly, and mostly angled to grow 3D app's and 3D content which is negligible now. Going with that last thought thats what Apple is betting on. :cool:

Spot on assessment.

Most people here are not familiar with AR (and appear to not want to spend a few minutes educating themselves on the subject). And assume AVP is just a way of creating a large screen immersive experience of what's normally seen on a Mac or laptop, superimposed in their living room space.

Though that'll come along for the ride for consumers, that's not what AR is, and is not the market Apple is focused on.
 
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DFZD

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2012
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If you pitching to a business the top down approach is common, but to convince consumers it usually the bottom up method to build demand as you suggest. For example a lot of the AR setups for medical usage are quite expensive. Such using patient medical data/imagery to superimpose on a patient for accurate surgery that just wasn't possible a few years ago. IMHO Vision Pro will not be a consumer device, it will be more of an experimental for some enthusiasts, business mostly, and mostly angled to grow 3D app's and 3D content which is negligible now. Going with that last thought thats what Apple is betting on. :cool:
Yes.. most consumers tend to think like.. "oh yes I love this product, if they make it even better I might pay a bit more".. and very few are like "oh yes I love this product but what if they made it 20% cheaper and 20% worse".. I might buy it after all. This pattern is more clearly visible with car consumers and high end car enthusiasts.
 

4nNtt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 13, 2007
913
664
Chicago, IL
The ITC can only rule on import bans. The actual patent litigation is still ongoing. Apple would not need to remove the feature from existing Apple Watches. If the Apple Watch was assembled in the US the ban would also not apply. Completely disabling the feature for new watches might be an option.
 

4nNtt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 13, 2007
913
664
Chicago, IL
Most people spend around $999.. in fact even the US average is around $550-650 I think.. and most of those people use smartphone as their only computing device. So taking all that in account, the comparison with a smartphone is not just unfair, its also incorrect.

Also until it becomes its own category, the Vision Pro is going to be perceived as a VR Set.

Total VR Set Sales in 2023 were only 7.5 Million. Of this 7.5M, Around 5.5M are Meta's Oculus sets. So considering that Apple doesn't really have a gaming console to tie this up with.. we'll be really surprised if Apple sells even a Million of these sets at this price and in this form.

I'm not saying the product doesn't show promise.. I'm just saying that the top down approach for a product we don't know we need may not work for the mass market. Do remember that most Apple Premium products like Watch Ultra, iPad Pro and iPhone Pro Max took the bottom up approach.. in fact the iPhone X, no matter how iconic had underwhelming sales.
Apple can only make a million of them within the next year so that is fine. They are supply chain constrained at 500K per year and they have probably been stockpiling for a year. Higher production then that is still years away.
 
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DFZD

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2012
1,032
2,789
Apple can only make a million of them within the next year so that is fine. They are supply chain constrained at 500K per year and they have probably been stockpiling for a year. Higher production then that is still years away.
I meant Apple can only sell 1 Million of those, in their lifetime, and that would be a dream run for the product. Realistically it would be a miracle if they even push 100K of those toys.
 

sjsharksfan12

macrumors 68000
Jun 29, 2020
1,858
2,350
San Jose, CA
I enjoyed the Cheese conversation. Maybe each episode should have one random question as an ice breaker, to get to know the hosts better. I learned maybe I should do Chedder more than American cheese.
 

WiiDSmoker

macrumors 68000
Sep 15, 2009
1,883
7,238
Dallas, TX
Once again Dan puts no research and has incorrect understanding of the Masimo situation. Pure blindness. Do research next time.
 

TruthAboveAllElse

macrumors regular
Aug 28, 2023
172
248
I enjoyed the Cheese conversation. Maybe each episode should have one random question as an ice breaker, to get to know the hosts better. I learned maybe I should do Chedder more than American cheese.
I felt the discussion on American Cheese neglected the deli sliced variety. Can't help but think the comments about it were directed at the cheese product which isn't technically cheese usually sold pre-sliced.
 

AlexESP

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2014
610
1,627
Most people spend around $999.. in fact even the US average is around $550-650 I think.. and most of those people use smartphone as their only computing device. So taking all that in account, the comparison with a smartphone is not just unfair, its also incorrect.

Also until it becomes its own category, the Vision Pro is going to be perceived as a VR Set.

Total VR Set Sales in 2023 were only 7.5 Million. Of this 7.5M, Around 5.5M are Meta's Oculus sets. So considering that Apple doesn't really have a gaming console to tie this up with.. we'll be really surprised if Apple sells even a Million of these sets at this price and in this form.

I'm not saying the product doesn't show promise.. I'm just saying that the top down approach for a product we don't know we need may not work for the mass market. Do remember that most Apple Premium products like Watch Ultra, iPad Pro and iPhone Pro Max took the bottom up approach.. in fact the iPhone X, no matter how iconic had underwhelming sales.
The iPhone X didn't have underwhelming sales at all. It sold less units than the iPhone 7 (1M in the first quarter if I recall correctly), but considering that price increased significantly and there was another model launched at the same time (iPhone 8), that was already forecasted. In fact, I remember that was one of the most extraordinary years for Apple (beating guidance by a lot). Low (or lower) doesn't equal underwhelming, i.e. AirPods Max probably sells in low quantities but it's a big success in its context. If Apple sells 1M Vision Pro, it wouldn't be a failure (although in this case I think it will be constrained by supply and not demand).
 

DFZD

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2012
1,032
2,789
The iPhone X didn't have underwhelming sales at all. It sold less units than the iPhone 7 (1M in the first quarter if I recall correctly), but considering that price increased significantly and there was another model launched at the same time (iPhone 8), that was already forecasted. In fact, I remember that was one of the most extraordinary years for Apple (beating guidance by a lot). Low (or lower) doesn't equal underwhelming, i.e. AirPods Max probably sells in low quantities but it's a big success in its context. If Apple sells 1M Vision Pro, it wouldn't be a failure (although in this case I think it will be constrained by supply and not demand).
iPhone X was a huge disappointment for Apple. The whole X and XS Series just ended up confusing the buyers. This is why it was dumped completely within 2 years and Apple brought the iPhone 11 and 11 Pro and simplified the whole process with a Good Phone and an even better Phone.. instead of a Great Phone and a not so great Phone.
 

AlexESP

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2014
610
1,627
iPhone X was a huge disappointment for Apple. The whole X and XS Series just ended up confusing the buyers. This is why it was dumped completely within 2 years and Apple brought the iPhone 11 and 11 Pro and simplified the whole process with a Good Phone and an even better Phone.. instead of a Great Phone and a not so great Phone.
But are we talking about whether naming was good or about whether it was a success (for Apple)? Because the iPhone X gen, despite or thanks to how they called it, was not a disappointment, it was a huge success. I agree that naming for the iPhone XS/XR was not the best, and Apple fixed it with the iPhone 11, but that’s just about naming; they haven’t changed the structure since the X/8, and always dumped the older models.
 

DFZD

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2012
1,032
2,789
But are we talking about whether naming was good or about whether it was a success (for Apple)? Because the iPhone X gen, despite or thanks to how they called it, was not a disappointment, it was a huge success. I agree that naming for the iPhone XS/XR was not the best, and Apple fixed it with the iPhone 11, but that’s just about naming; they haven’t changed the structure since the X/8, and always dumped the older models.
I think you're not remembering it correcting how poor the X sales were compared to the XR.

So here's a refresher.. but it all changed completely when Apple release iPhone 11 series.. and Pro Max has been the highest selling phone year by year.
 

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AlexESP

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2014
610
1,627
I think you're not remembering it correcting how poor the X sales were compared to the XR.

So here's a refresher.. but it all changed completely when Apple release iPhone 11 series.. and Pro Max has been the highest selling phone year by year.
Those are press headlines. You can find the same if you replace “iPhone X disappointing sales” with any iPhone model. In the end, iPhone revenue during those quarters beat all guidances and set all-time records, by far.
 
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