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I don't mind paying more for Macs, as I think the value is worth it (e.g. I think one spends more time maintaining Windows than MacOS).

But... these prices are getting ridiculous. I don't want to carry $4000 around in my backpack.

What's odd is it used to be prices were stable but you would get more bang for the buck with each generation. Now prices seem to be rising...

I get Apple figures they can mostly sell to people who can afford it, the problem is if they shrink their ecosystem by doing this, that makes the platform less viable.
 
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Dell throws OEM PC components into a case.

Apple commits billions of dollars in research and development to create their own chips and software. Of course they have to charge a premium otherwise they will also have to use OEM parts and cut their research work.

Stop making comparison between them. It’s crazy that people keep doing this.

Do you have any source which tell you how much apple spent on R&D for MBP ?
 
I can't imagine the resale value is that good on the 2018 MacBook Pro.

Maybe not today. But if these series from 2016 onward to the next redesign (2019? 2020?) gains a reputation for unreliable keyboards, BridgeOS crashes, etc. Maybe the market won’t be so good for them in 2 years time.

To relate the MacBook as NASA with the issues it has is an insult to NASA :).

Cupertino we have a problem
 
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Dell throws OEM PC components into a case.
And Apple does the same, i.e., memory, wifi, display, SSD (admittedly they're the fastest SSD on the market), batteries. The point being apple and dell use many of the same parts, though in Dell's case we can get higher storage, larger batteries, and better GPUs for less then what apple charges. Also you need to factor in that in Dell's case you can upgrade the components yourself. Apple chose to solder them onto the logic board.

Yes, they spent a lot of money researching and developing the Touchbar which is a gimmick and added higher price tag. The T2 that drives the touchbar and touchid is unstable, so again we have high cost, features that are non-standard and they're largely detract from the usage.
 
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I know it’s the holidays and all, and people do drink, however I would never pay $2000 more. :confused:

Then let's just say we have different standards and expectation. I don't have an issue with paying an equivalent of few mugs of beer per month to get a tool that I can really use and be happy with. Compared to other life spendings (food/rest/insurances etc.), a laptop — no matter how expensive, is only a minor cost. And its essentially zero in a business environment when you compare this with other expenses.
 
As someone who has been in the IT industry for over 15 years, and repairs PC laptops primarily, I can tell you going home to my Macbook is a joy. I wasn't always into Apple products, and would be the first to bash Apple in the past. Building a sweet PC gaming rig in the late 90's early 2K's was where I spent my time, and no one was going to convince me differently. Even doing a co-op at a 3rd party Apple store where they swore by the end they would have me a convert didn't work.
20 years later, (and family life with little time for gaming except the xb1x) I swear by macOS. Yes, Lenovo, Dell, and HP make some ok products, but only in the very high end segment. I doubt you'll find many who would contest the fact Lenovo makes the best laptop keyboard. Period.

I've worked for large government agencies that solely bought the Lenovo T and X series, HP Elitebook Series, and Dell Latitude series laptops.
What I find funny, and mentioned in another thread, is that all big PC manufactures use crap 300 nit, and many times sub 300nit high end business class notebooks. And here Apple stuck in a 300nit decent IPS panel into the Air. HP has started to change this as of the recent 840 G5 line, using a minimum of 400nit panels, with the option for even a 700nit but they are the only one. Lenovo is offering the HDR 500+ nit panel, but only in the highest spec'd X1 Carbon 6th gen. And while as of this year I believe Lenovo and HP are using IPS panels across the board for the T and Elitebook series (unless you spec the base base base model, and then you're still getting a HD TN), Dell is still shipping crap displays. I know... I'm typing on one right now. A latitude E7490 with a FHD TN Panel in a $2k laptop... no excuses for that.

I do agree that many of the PC manufactures give you similar specs, or better (except the LCD) for cheaper prices then Apple, but you are at the mercy of the build quality, sub par support, & crap re-sale value. The XPS line looks nice, but that's all I have to say about it. I used 3, and all 3 had coil wine. These were the 9370. Also, the fan's would spin up when doing the lightest tasks. I don't hate Dell's, but they have been known to use whatever parts on are the floor, QA could definitely use an overhaul, and as I deal with the latitude line at work, hundreds of them, they have a high failure rate with issues ranging from small cosmetic overlooks, various hardware issues when new out of box, to major failures.

HP Elitebooks on the other hand are decent. HP IMO has some of the best Customer Support, although this is for the Elitebook support. I've called at 5pm to order parts and had them delivered 9am the next day. Very very nice and easy to deal with. Also, I've been pretty impressed with the displays they are using this year, that being said though my work Elitebook x360 1030 G2 $3000 laptop had a 250 nit display. Pure garbage.

Lenovo, amazing keyboards. Build quality... meh. Displays are crap. Above Dell, but still using sub standard IPS Panels with low 300nit or 280nit unless you option for that HDR panel. Yes, they are very thin and light though.

I've worked on thousands of Dell, HP, and Lenovo laptops, Everything ranging from the Inspiron line to the XPS and Latitude, the HP Elitebooks, Probooks, and Pavillion line, and Lenovo's T and X line.
So I can honestly say, that no matter how good the price is, whatever deal HP, Dell, and Lenovo could offer me, I will still happily pay the extra to use a Macbook. And yes, Apple is far from perfect. They equally have their faults, and design flaws. But service is pretty good, MacOSX is sooo much nicer to use then Windows, and battery is almost, if not, industry leading.

And then their is the fact you are buying something with Windows 10. You pay 2-3K for a fully loaded, decked out laptop, and when you first fire it up and hit the start button, the first thing you are greeted with is a bunch of square panels advertising Candy Crush & Netflix. Ugh...
 
And then their is the fact you are buying something with Windows 10. You pay 2-3K for a fully loaded, decked out laptop, and when you first fire it up and hit the start button, the first thing you are greeted with is a bunch of square panels advertising Candy Crush & Netflix. Ugh...
LOL! So true... I remember the very first time I started up Windows 10, there was a twitter tile with a tweet from Donald Trump (before he was President). Man, did that make a terrible first impression on me! :p
 
@darkmatter343 & @All: fair points.
However, Apple just overstresses it. Yes, Apple was never cheap, pretty much at all times (except maybe the G3 iBook/iMac era) charged premium prices.
But as of 2018 its just too much. 400 extra on a Vega on top of the 560Xs price? ~500 bucks for upgrade to 32 Gs? ~500 plus for the 1 TB option/ ~1500 for 2 TB option? Have they completely lost their minds? Must be. This is just nuts.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, can justify those (upgrade) prices.
 
@darkmatter343 & @All: fair points.
However, Apple just overstresses it. Yes, Apple was never cheap, pretty much always (except maybe the G3 iBook/iMac era) charged premium prices.
But as of 2018 its just too much. 400 extra on a Vega on top of the 560Xs price? ~500 bucks for upgrade to 32 Gs? ~500 plus for the 1 TB option/ ~1500 for 2 TB option? Have they completely los their minds? Bust be. This is just nuts.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, can justify those prices.
I sort of agree, although someone pointed out to me that the SSD prices in particular are actually in line with retail prices on those capacities... it's easy to forget they use the most premium SSD types.
 
Well - over here in Germany, the 1 TB version of Samsungs 970 Pro is about 350 Euros. Now, quite possibly the SSDs Apple uses are a tad faster.
However, its just a tad. So nothing justifies 500 ON TOP of the standard 500 GB SSD. And don't even get me started on comparing the 2 TB option
 
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Than “darkmatter” you might agree that the high end Lenovo would be a good buy with the 4K panels and the other spec’s shown above in my other posts ?? ;)
 
The cheapest possible MBP with Vega 16 graphics:


Dell XPS 15 with Windows Pro upgrade, 4K screen upgrade, 2TB SSD upgrade and 4 years of premium Dell support upgrade (I had to throw in Windows Pro as a literally ran out of any other upgrade options)
There are some things you forgot to take into consideration:
  • The Dell machine is not a Mac
  • Windows doesn't integrate as seamlessly with iOS, macOS or watchOS devices (Things like iCloud, Continuity and Handoff)
  • The Mac machine won't include advertisements like Windows does
There are other items, but you get the idea.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the pricing either. But, I feel that if you're going to compare computer systems, you should compare all aspects.. including the software, OS and back-end services. Otherwise it's not really a fair comparison.
 
Than “darkmatter” you might agree that the high end Lenovo would be a good buy with the 4K panels and the other spec’s shown above in my other posts ?? ;)

Yeah, if you are looking at a high end Windows laptop, then you can’t go wrong with the X1 Carbon 6th gen with the HDR screen or the new Xtreme. Also the higher end HP Elitebooks or Z books with the dreamcolor screens. But in the end you’re still dealing with W10, unless you plan on running a Linux flavour.
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@darkmatter343 & @All: fair points.
However, Apple just overstresses it. Yes, Apple was never cheap, pretty much at all times (except maybe the G3 iBook/iMac era) charged premium prices.
But as of 2018 its just too much. 400 extra on a Vega on top of the 560Xs price? ~500 bucks for upgrade to 32 Gs? ~500 plus for the 1 TB option/ ~1500 for 2 TB option? Have they completely lost their minds? Must be. This is just nuts.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, can justify those (upgrade) prices.

I agree, Apple has always charged a good extra buck for upgrades, but you can’t escape it no matter which manufacture you go with.

I just don’t get bothered by it anymore. I want OSX so I just accept I’ll be paying more in some cases. It’s like gas prices, even if they charged me $2/L my car still needs it, so I don’t bother looking at the gas price. It is what it is. I want OSX and I like Apple MacBooks so I don’t fuss over the price.
 
Yeah, if you are looking at a high end Windows laptop, then you can’t go wrong with the X1 Carbon 6th gen with the HDR screen or the new Xtreme. Also the higher end HP Elitebooks or Z books with the dreamcolor screens. But in the end you’re still dealing with W10, unless you plan on running a Linux flavour.
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Thank You. My only real issue is the T2 Chip and the keyboard, continuously having reports of sticking. Had the MacBook Pro 15 inch and I’m now sorry I sold it.
 
Thank You. My only real issue is the T2 Chip and the keyboard, continuously having reports of sticking. Had the MacBook Pro 15 inch and I’m now sorry I sold it.

While the keyboard and T2 chip crashing are definitely issues, Apple even acknowledging it, it’s not like it’s 1 out of 2 laptops being affected. And as someone else said, on these forums your more likely to hear only complaints about faulty keyboards. Not very many sign up to post how great the keyboard is. Sure it’s a problem widespread enough that Apple needed to create a repair program, but I think you’d fine many, many more people who’ve never had a single keyboard or T2 chip issue. While it’s a small number, i have setup about 8 MacBook pros from the 2016-2017 models for ppl I know,and talk to on a regular basis. I have never heard them complain about an issue.
 
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