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no biggie

I'm sure that what I have to say isn't much different than what others have already mentioned. I myself am not complaining though.
The playlist sharing was (yes, "was", b/c it's no more as of now) only in 1 version of iTunes. It's not like we had sharing in iTunes 3, then all of a sudden, Apple decided to pull the plug. So, I really don't see the big deal.
I still have 4.0. Will I upgrade? Not yet.
I just happen to have a copy of iTunes 3, and I still have iTunes 2 in OS9 as well (which I rarely use). There's always a way around something.....:rolleyes:

For those who listen to their own streaming music from elsewhere, either:
1) DO NOT UPDATE iTUNES
or
2) Use either the SLIMP3 server software or MP3 Sushi
Using SLIMP3, I'm able to stream my own music to myself offline (sounds retarded, but i still have 56k, waiting for than dang cable modem to arrive any day now) :D
 
Sheesh people. You need to listen to Arn and some of the others on the board. Apple got pressured because people were illegally sharing music over the net. It was intended for personal use only, ie sharing music with friends in your house network etc. not sharing with everyone at your work or all your friends over the net.

If something gets abused, it goes away as we know it. end of story
 
Originally posted by nickgold
You know what Interface Builder is, but can't set up a home network?
I am very well aware of both, perhaps I should have said: I don't know exactly why it works... from all I can tell, it shouldn't; AppleTalk is on AirPort for both computers, they are both connected to the internet via AirPort, but they share songs over a cat-5 crossover cable, after using the Connect to Shared Music dialog, and typing in the IP (10.0.1.x).

What is this, another failure of the American educational system or what?
No more so than you. And given that I can at least use correct grammar... :rolleyes: If you want to b*tch about the education system, go to the Politics forum.


And dang it, there's no .nib files to edit in iTunes, at least not visible ones anyway, so no upgrade for me. I'm staying at 4.0 thanks.
 
Re: no biggie

Originally posted by rockman2023
I'm sure that what I have to say isn't much different than what others have already mentioned. I myself am not complaining though.
The playlist sharing was (yes, "was", b/c it's no more as of now) only in 1 version of iTunes. It's not like we had sharing in iTunes 3, then all of a sudden, Apple decided to pull the plug. So, I really don't see the big deal.
I still have 4.0. Will I upgrade? Not yet.
I just happen to have a copy of iTunes 3, and I still have iTunes 2 in OS9 as well (which I rarely use). There's always a way around something.....:rolleyes:

For those who listen to their own streaming music from elsewhere, either:
1) DO NOT UPDATE iTUNES
or
2) Use either the SLIMP3 server software or MP3 Sushi
Using SLIMP3, I'm able to stream my own music to myself offline (sounds retarded, but i still have 56k, waiting for than dang cable modem to arrive any day now) :D

Thanks for those links. If I do need to upgrade, hopefully one of those programs can do the trick (emphasis on hopefully).

Oh, and just as a nitpick, back in iTunes 3, we did have iCommune (for a few days anyway, and I still have a copy) for sharing. It wasn't Rendezvous, but it worked.
 
Re: IT DOESN"T SCALE

Originally posted by AidenShaw
And more sharers, and more listeners, and pretty soon that big 100Mbps pipe's gonna seem pretty slow. No problem if everyone on campus starts up a server, right?

Sure, one server on a 100Mbps LAN doesn't amount to much. Do you really have a 100Mbps feed to the Internet? That's pretty expensive at market rates. (My home office is all GigE, but only 1.5Mbps DSL to the net.)

It's "home" and "work" that's really going to cause problems - not "dorm room" and "computer center".... Re-read "eric-n-dfw's" comment - that's the more common business situation that I'm talking about. Your small "self-supporting" campus network isn't the point of my arguments - look outside your own situation and learn, your post triggered a more general response from me.

For the last time, stop the assumptions.

We have 100Mbps wired, but the campus is on the CSU backbone. It's not a "small" campus network.

Of course I see how this would be problematic for other situations. I've never argued otherwise. I took exception to your original assertion of my wrongdoing, which you yourself have backed off from.

The next time you wish to make a general point, don't quote someone.
 
Originally posted by GeeYouEye
I am very well aware of both, perhaps I should have said: I don't know exactly why it works... from all I can tell, it shouldn't; AppleTalk is on AirPort for both computers, they are both connected to the internet via AirPort, but they share songs over a cat-5 crossover cable, after using the Connect to Shared Music dialog, and typing in the IP (10.0.1.x).

Make sure both computers have different rendezvous names in your Sharing system preference -- maybe they are both "John-Does-Computer.local" when for rendezvous to work properly, they would obviously need different names, or much confusion would ensue.

As for "poor grammar" -- bah, language and grammar are constantly evolving, as any educated _and_ wise person could tell you. Especially these days -- ever notice how non-computer types get all dizzy-looking when you spout computerese at them? My critique of your education had more to do with the gaps in it, than your overall presentation! ;)
 
Oh Rendezvous works, it just only works over AirPort, which (because of a bad but necessary placement) doesn't stream smoothly even 112kbps MP3's.

Edit: I saw this over at /. anyone know exactly what this does:

ifconfig lan0 (ip) netmask 0.0.0.0 broadcast 255.255.255.255
 
Originally posted by MrMacman
Well, not the users, one bit.

If apple wanted to keep the damned record company's happy they could just join the suit against all of the 'evil' P2P users and groups.

This is utter BS.
They could have stoped the downloading, they could have sued the devolpers for making the apps, but no, apple pulls the whole plug.

Its like a doctor saying they only need to cut a toe nail and the mother says it is just better to cut off the toe.

Gimme a break!

Methinks thu dost protest WAYYYY tooo bloody much, mate! (Sorry W.S.)
But, the internet sharing of libraries should represent only a TINY fraction of what thou doest in a given day/week/month. Thus, thy rants are disproportionate given the wondrous utility of this beast: unless thou.... mmmm...? "sharest" thy files with other hearties on a more, shall we say, permanent basis? Noooo! thou sayest? not thee, hearty, but then again, methinks thou DOST protest just a wee bit too loudly! Tell me, hearty, that it ain't so. Be a good lad and fess up. No one will bite thee... I suspect that thou be more than just a touch indigestible.
Aye, and just for all to see, mate, hoist that Jolly Roger. The colour suits thee to a "T"!
 
Personally, I will NOT be upgrading. I happen to like the ability to connect to my home computer from school to stream my music. Since my iBook has a 30GB Hard Drive compared to the 140GB of disk space in my server, I like to keep my music on the server and just stream it. My iPod won't hold all of my music, so sharing over the internet is a really nice feature for me.
 
at the risk of sounding obscene... :)

I see a tad bit of line-blurring between "pirating", "sharing", "broadcasting" and "distribution" of music going on here... (and I think the RIAA/Music Industry is itself partially responsible for this blurring...)

These are each distinct and specific categories, and at the end of the day, it's all about Distribution...

But we have to get one thing straight... "Sharing" is NOT "Piracy". The term Piracy is (was?) specifically reserved for those who duplicate, resell, redistribute, or broadcast illegitimate copies of 'Prior Art', for a FEE, without paying license or performance royalties to the copyright/patent holder.

So, a Chinese merchant who makes 1,000 copies of a music CD, and sells them in a street bazaar for $5 a disc, and puts the proceeds in his pocket without paying the artist/publisher a royalty is a Pirate.

"Pirate Radio" is not any old broadcast stream, but those that have ad revenue, or other sources of income derived from the broadcasting of music, AND they are not paying royalties...


Sharing: the person who plays a CD at a party (or "broadcasts" private streams over the Internet) is NOT a Pirate. Unless that person is charging a FEE related to that 'broadcast' (either to the listener, or to advertisers, etc.).

When "for profit" radio stations broadcast, for YOU the listener it's "free" (you pay by listening to the advertising), but the station pays performance royalties for every song it plays. Thus the reason for advertising revenue.

But there are stations that don't pay such royalties (certain college stations that are "non-profit", etc.), and these can broadcast freely... this IS technically equivalent to the average "streamer" who sets up a portal, and privately 'broadcasts' music over the Internet. Non-profit, right?

The problems come when you make a COPY of a CD and give it to your friend. That falls into the category of Distribution (yep!). And here is where the whole industry turns rabid.

It isn't like a book that you share after reading it (since generally only one person uses it at a time... making a photocopy to "share" IS illegal -- it isn't sharing, it's DISTRIBUTING)...

Of course, there would be no issue if you handed over the original CD for them to listen to for awhile... "private" small-scale 'distribution' has always been tolerated, cos it's really pointless trying to enforce it.


So, in summary....
- Pirating is clearly wrong (and clearly defined!).
- Sharing by itself is not a crime.
- Broadcasting isn't really criminal either, unless you do it for profit, and don't pay royalties.

However, *Distribution* is the big one, and that IS the reason things keep getting so sticky.

It's always been a grey area, and particularly with the advent of the Internet (the courts are wrangling over it, Kazaa is dancing around it, and it always comes down to this ONE thing. Distro...).


There are two primary ways of disseminating recorded music: Broadcast and Distribution.

The rules are pretty clear about Broadcasting -- or were, until the CDMA where all lines blur. Even the grey areas introduced by the Internet have been fairly manageable... The fact is, iTunes Sharing was possible at the outset because it provided a means of Broadcasting, but didn't technically equal Distribution.

The moment that audio stream becomes a "distributed copy" (a FILE on a second hard drive), the trouble begins... and that's the main issue the industry has with P2P, Napster, Kazaa, and the like... Those aren't "Broadcasting" music, they are Distributing it...

The issue of "recording a broadcast" has always been an "thorn" for the industry, but they regard it as a necessary evil... because as noted before, broadcasting has actually been GOOD for sales. And how many recorded radio broadcasts form the core of your listening library? Not many I'd bet... instead, they invariably lead to further purchasing.

Internet broadcasts (in the form of 'private streams') aren't really at issue, and fundamentally I don't believe it's the reason Apple has just pulled the plug on it...

It's when that stream becomes the functional equivalent of Napster or Kazaa, a *distribution* mechanism, that we see the hackles raise...

So, they need to turn it off, until it can be fairly well assured that it isn't just another Kazaa in Apple clothing...

And that's MY 2 cents on the topic, obscene as it is :D

tribalogical
 
Originally posted by GeeYouEye

Edit: I saw this over at /. anyone know exactly what this does:

ifconfig lan0 (ip) netmask 0.0.0.0 broadcast 255.255.255.255 [/B]

hmmmm I'd like to say that it tricks your computer into thinking that all connections being broadcast are coming from the same subnet... which would make iTunes work for everyone else, or for your work computer for instance if you are connecting to that home mac... or maybe the opposite, ie: it makes all incoming connections look like they are on your subnet.

A more understandable method would be to port forward 3689 from your home machine to your work machine.... sorry, can't detail it, /. had some examples.

There are other methods that will also work, wherein you make the broadcasting machine trick itself into thinking it's on everyones subnet... that may be what happens with the quoted example... maybe not.

In any case, with a little due diligence you will find a way to allow streaming via internet ip address once again... though for most the work required will be too much.
 
yeah itunes store my ass, how am I suppose to legally listen to music now before I could listen to my friends music. It will be ages before the itunes store come to asia (where I live). This is just forcing me to either buy CDs or download off p2p, and guess what I will choose.

In addition they keep saying illegal, stealing and stuff, because we are not paying them (itunes sharing), they just wants us to empty our pockets. Anything people do that will potentially listen to music without paying them is a sin.

I also want to mention that these people charge alot for music. These music people earns way more then a PHD degree guy for screaming at the microphone. I don't tihnk its justified that they get so much money anyway. Ever seen linkin park's studio? fxxking richasses.

Just my 2 cents
 
Re: The New iTunes Downgrade!

Originally posted by MrMacman
Boo!

I'm really pissed, how why the hell did they take sharing out of iTunes 4.0.1, god damn, they could have stopped Downloading, instill they do this, god apple you are making me Really pissed!

Geez, its not hard for apple to add an anti-piracy feature and not stop sharing TOTALLY!

I reverted, apple, don't make this STUPID move!

for more info :(

God, Stay with 4.0 ! No more Shaft For me!

edit: even SLASHDOT has a story there

it is still possible to share.
the only problem is that everybody who wants to access your files, has to have 4.1 also.
 
Originally posted by rjwill246
Methinks thu dost protest WAYYYY tooo bloody much, mate! (Sorry W.S.)
But, the internet sharing of libraries should represent only a TINY fraction of what thou doest in a given day/week/month. Thus, thy rants are disproportionate given the wondrous utility of this beast: unless thou.... mmmm...? "sharest" thy files with other hearties on a more, shall we say, permanent basis? Noooo! thou sayest? not thee, hearty, but then again, methinks thou DOST protest just a wee bit too loudly! Tell me, hearty, that it ain't so. Be a good lad and fess up. No one will bite thee... I suspect that thou be more than just a touch indigestible.
Aye, and just for all to see, mate, hoist that Jolly Roger. The colour suits thee to a "T"!

I think you need to speak english or speak better Shakespearean english.
 
Is there a better way to share besides iTunes then?

Perhaps using iTunes to share isn't a good idea anyway, I haven't bought anything from the store yet, although it looks pretty cool. If you can morph the DRM codec stuff to mp3 somehow then you can use a dedicated cheapy intel linux or bsd machine to stream whatever you want. I wonder if there is anything free out there that is has a lot of cool features and would support playlists?
 
Oh man, reminds me of what used to be internet radio

remember when there were really cool streaming internet radio broadcast? I miss those, Blue Mars especially. All of the fuss over this stuff is really starting to make me shy away from new technology in favor of older, not as restrictive software. I don't even download music from p2p, but I don't like the restrictions that are placed on paying consumers. Also Id like to add that the RIAA is in fact putting viruses on the networks. I think that is the most childish, unprofessional thing I have ever seen from a group that is supposed to have authority. Maybe they are just mad because of all this technology, they are no longer needed, and completely neutered of all real value.....
 
Re: Re: IT DOESN"T SCALE

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
...the campus is on the CSU backbone. It's not a "small" campus network.

Hmmmm. So when you said:

The network is self-supported in terms of equipment and personnel. There are no "costs", as you describe them.

You really mean "the taxpayers who support the state university system pick up the bill". LOL!!!

All your equipment is free, the backbone is free, the carriers give you free bandwidth, there are no costs.... ROTFLOL!!!
 
Originally posted by MrMacman
Well, not the users, one bit.

If apple wanted to keep the damned record company's happy they could just join the suit against all of the 'evil' P2P users and groups.

This is utter BS.
They could have stoped the downloading, they could have sued the devolpers for making the apps, but no, apple pulls the whole plug.

Its like a doctor saying they only need to cut a toe nail and the mother says it is just better to cut off the toe.

Gimme a break!

No, sorry, but you are wrong. Why bitch about a FEATURE, that was removed by Apple. You did not have this feature about a month ago, and now you don't have it again. Why. Because the good have to suffer for the bad. Always have. Always will. No matter what you think about Apple, and their decision to kick some features out, Apple has to do what Apple has to do to keep the music store open, and to get the record companies on board for the iTunes for Windows Music store. Period. If you don't like that buy an iPod. Seriously, it was a small feature that isn't a big deal. If you want to get your music from work on your home system, I have one thing to say. VPN.
 
The new iTunes version has fixed my problems with sound fading etc. For me, it was not necessary to stream music outside my house.
 
Originally posted by tribalogical
at the risk of sounding obscene... :)


But we have to get one thing straight... "Sharing" is NOT "Piracy". The term Piracy is (was?) specifically reserved for those who duplicate, resell, redistribute, or broadcast illegitimate copies of 'Prior Art', for a FEE, without paying license or performance royalties to the copyright/patent holder.

So, a Chinese merchant who makes 1,000 copies of a music CD, and sells them in a street bazaar for $5 a disc, and puts the proceeds in his pocket without paying the artist/publisher a royalty is a Pirate.
[snip]
Sharing: the person who plays a CD at a party (or "broadcasts" private streams over the Internet) is NOT a Pirate. Unless that person is charging a FEE related to that 'broadcast' (either to the listener, or to advertisers, etc.).
[snip]
So, in summary....
- Pirating is clearly wrong (and clearly defined!).
- Sharing by itself is not a crime.
- Broadcasting isn't really criminal either, unless you do it for profit, and don't pay royalties.

Following your logic, it isn't wrong for me to distribute 1,000 CDR copies of Office vX as long as I give them away for free?

Hmm. Don't sound solid to me.
 
Re: follow up on simple question above

Originally posted by Monkeypoo
If I take my powerbook home where my mom has an imac, will we need a wireless network for this sharing to occur (not talking about the streaming that apparently I never really noticed before listening to the complaints here)? Or will we need some sort of home network set up either wireless or wired. The demo when the new ipod was announced made it sound so simple that all that was required for sharing was for two rendezvous enabled computers to be in the same relative area (any max on the distance between two computers?).

Yes, you will need "some kind" of network. This can be as simple as both computers having Airport (and/or Airport Extreme) turned on (known as an "ad hoc" 802.11b/g network, or as a "Computer-to-Computer network" ... not sure the OS X wireless setup uses here), or connecting them through their Ethernet ports using a "crossover" cable (ask at your local computer shop ... it's not quite the same as a "normal" ethernet cable!) or both connected to a switch/hub or one connected to a switch/hub connected to an Airport base station and the other with Airport turned on ...

You just need the two computers connected through wired or wireless networking in some way.


where do i find out if our computers have the rendezvous capability? My world consists of only my powerbook so I never really bothered to look into this even though more and more of my classmates are getting ibooks or powerbooks (every year an apple rep comes to the med school to promote them)

Every Jaguar system has Rendezvous capability (just make sure your OS X version is 10.2 or newer).

Airport? It would have been an option when you bought the powerbook, or others might be able to tell you how to look to see if your specific book has the Airport card installed. You can order the card to upgrade your powerbook if you don't have it already ($99 last I remember ...)

Ethernet? Yes, you have it. It's more "hassle" than Airport because you have to carry a cable and make a physical connection, but all recent Powerbooks support Gigabit ethernet networking (which is approximately 80-90x as fast as Airport Extreme's sustainable throughput, and lower latencies ... so if you can use wired ethernet then it is the "better" option!). You just need to go to your local computer store and buy a crossover cable to connect directly to your friends' computer or a normal ethernet patch cable to connect to a hub/switch/wall Ethernet port.
 
Re: Re: Note that I said "the IT departments"

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
You overlooked my post, for some reason, which explicitly said this is not a "business" but a campus. The network is self-supported in terms of equipment and personnel. There are no "costs", as you describe them.

Well, as an uninvolved observer on the sidelines, I think both of you are making a bit much of this.

An academic network (generally incurring no bandwidth-to-backbone costs ...) will not suffer too much from this "work-to-home" streaming, especially if "work" and "home" are both within the bounds of the on-campus network.

Most of us are more used to dealing with limited-bandwidth situations as are seen in businesses across the country.


You also overlook the fact that iTunes only supports 5 listeners at a time. That leaves the bandwidth used at well under 1Mbps of our 100Mbps line - if all the connections are being used. With the password protection I rarely saw more than two people on at a time, anyway.

True, but it would be hypocritical for you (as the IT head) to use iTunes sharing and forbid others to use it (or similar streaming services). Does your network really have the bandwidth (internal and external) to handle a majority of your users doing the same?

Seems to me, as someone who doesn't know the "whole story", that it would be odd for any network to be so oversized, a product of good planning for the future and fortunate timing.

But, as you have pointed out, you are the head of IT, and so you are the one who has to pay for the precedent you set up and the one who has to justify the cost of additional equipment if it comes to that.

Note I'm not accusing you or saying you are doing something wrong here (as I said, if anyone is hurt by it, it's yourself). But do recognize that you are in a quite special circumstance and that for the vast majority of people out there, streaming music between work and home would be a Very Bad Thing.
 
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