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I'm curious about this statement. Just exactly who are these shareholders who want to reach this far into Apple's workings? Shareholders by and large want a good ROI, and they don't really care how a company gets it. I can see consumers "demanding" a particular product line structure (we certainly do it here all the time!), but not necessarily shareholders.

Shareholders would ask for an Apple offering as cheap as $499 which has resulted in the mini as we know it today. They dont necessarily care about how Apple achieve that and couldn’t dictate specifics. You can see this in the quarterly results calls where big investors and journalists get to ask questions of the senior team. It’s been said before that Apple don’t know how to make a computer for under 500 that wasn’t junk.

Consumers can demand whatever they like. In the old days it was Steve who was the final arbiter. Today there’s probably more market research and focus groups influencing product development but one thing that Apple have almost forgotten about is the halo effect of professionals who kept Apple going in the dark days before the iMac, iPod and iPhone.

If there is a work flow team influencing things at Apple now for professionals you imagine they are asking for user replaceable parts and probably internal storage as well as the highly predictable request for more cores and Vega GPU. It’s vitally important to be able to maintain uptime of hardware if you can replace faulty RAM or storage. Or internally add industry standard additional storage or peripherals.

I’d imagine that Mac mini colo would be asked their opinion in the workflow side of things as they’d be a big buyer of headless hardware.

We just have to hope that Apple decide that there’s a significant base of us hobbyists who would make it worth their while to produce a reasonably priced product for.
 
It’s been said before that Apple don’t know how to make a computer for under 500 that wasn’t junk.

It was actually Steve Jobs who said that 10 years ago...

"What we want to do is deliver an increasing level of value to these customers, but there are some customers which we choose not to serve. We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk; our DNA will not let us do that."

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ceo-steve-jobs-holds-court-on-earnings-day/
 
So basically you changed your story from your mother using the base model, to pros using the base model for it's only possible purpose - NON constant user facing applications.

The link I provided was with someone using a upgraded Mac Mimi - 8 Gigs of RAM.

Hopefully you can get your "Apple is never wrong and never does slimy things" story straight, at some point.
Nice ad hom, but my “story” didn’t change. Both are true. Undemanding, light MacOS users—which perfectly describes my Mom—as well as those that would use a $499 Mac mini in a headless server or non-MacOS role are equally served by a $499 mini.

A perfectly valid, non Mac OS use case for a $499 mini includes Win10 btw. There are plenty of people running Win10 on a 4GB machine. I don’t have any experience with that config, it may well run better than High Sierra on the $499 mini.

Apple does plenty wrong, including waiting so long to update the Mac mini—and Mac Pro, for that matter. And I’m still waiting for an updated iPad mini, my 4 is showing it’s age.

Apple has a $499 4GB/HDD, a $599 8GB/HDD, a 8GB/1TB Fusion for an $899 8GB/SSD lineup of minis available at the lower end, and it maxes out at $1999. Get the model that suits you. Let those that want a $499 mini have theirs.

Apple could do what you want—discontinue all the mini configs below the 8GB/SSD model, and simply start the Mac mini lineup at $899.

No idea why it you want the minimum price of a mini to be $899, but maybe you can explain it.
 
You do realize that Apple buys in bulk, right? 4Gigs to 8Gigs of RAM and 1TB HDD to 256 SSD would cost Apple about $50 to $60 After pulling in tons of Money by selling 2014 parts for full price in 2018.

$499 to $599, to get a MUCH better experience would only make sense. But this is Apple we are talking about, right? I know you will claim it will BREAK Apple to do this. Everyone understands the need to defend every move(or non-move in this case) Apple makes, but large segments of the Mac community has had Apple turn their backs on them. You are not going to convince those of us who can clearly see that the Emperor has no clothes.

Apple USED to make an awesome Mac Mini that USED to appear to smart, tech-savvy people. But those days are LONG gone, despite what you say ...

mac-mini-server-rack.jpg


The current version, regardless of the config, is not worth this kind of effort.
 
I’m pretty sure he’s just trolling. Nobody can actually believe a machine running the current version of macOS off 4 gb of RAM and a 5400 spinner is acceptable... for anything.
Apple could certainly discontinue the 3 SKUs below the 8GB/SSD mini and just start the mini lineup at $899.

Why having the mini start at $899 instead of $499 is so important to you is really puzzling. I’ve presented a variety of use cases for the cheaper configuration, but your mind is closed. You think you know what’s best for others. But you don’t.

With every $499 mini Apple sells—and they do sell—Apple proves what I’ve said. The $499 is a perfectly valid configuration. Not sure why that’s so upsetting to you.
 
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You do realize that Apple buys in bulk, right? 4Gigs to 8Gigs of RAM and 1TB HDD to 256 SSD would cost Apple about $50 to $60 After pulling in tons of Money by selling 2014 parts for full price in 2018.

$499 to $599, to get a MUCH better experience would only make sense. But this is Apple we are talking about, right? I know you will claim it will BREAK Apple to do this. Everyone understands the need to defend every move(or non-move in this case) Apple makes, but large segments of the Mac community has had Apple turn their backs on them. You are not going to convince those of us who can clearly see that the Emperor has no clothes.

Apple USED to make an awesome Mac Mini that USED to appear to smart, tech-savvy people. But those days are LONG gone, despite what you say ...

mac-mini-server-rack.jpg


The current version, regardless of the config, is not worth this kind of effort.
You’re not going to get an 8GB RAM/256 SSD mini for $499-$599. Now, or after the refresh.

It’s $899 now; I could see an 8/128 at $799 but that’s about as low as we can expect. At any given config, it’ll be a few hundred dollars cheaper than the equivalent 13” MBP.
 
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Or how about Apple continue with the current Mini line up before the refresh, but simply reflect the dropping price of the components.
Take $50-75 of each model.
Then surely no one could complain.

Btw, the new Mac mini is almost certainly coming.
 
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Why wouldn't it be a few hundred dollars cheaper than the equivalent MacBook Air (its neglected laptop cousin)?
The Mac mini is a re-packaged version of the 15W/28W 13” MBP. (The 15W version is also used for the $1,099 entry level iMac with the 1080 HD display.)

I suspect the new Mac mini may follow this same pattern. I was actually surprised Apple didn’t release the mini update when they refreshed the 1080 iMac last year, but maybe (hopefully) they were waiting for a quad core 28W GT3e CPU.
 
The Mac mini is a re-packaged version of the 15W/28W 13” MBP. (The 15W version is also used for the $1,099 entry level iMac with the 1080 HD display.)

I suspect the new Mac mini may follow this same pattern. I was actually surprised Apple didn’t release the mini update when they refreshed the 1080 iMac last year, but maybe (hopefully) they were waiting for a quad core 28W GT3e CPU.

Crucially, the 15w CPU (with Iris Graphics) that Apple use in the base non retina 21.5" iMac doesn't currently have an equivalent Coffee Lake unit. That said that model would not be used in a revamped 2018 iMac lineup because it makes sense for the entire iMac lineup to go retina with the direction of travel of the refreshes to date.

The only available 15w CPU is the 4 core i5-8250U which doesn't come with Iris Graphics. Apple's use of Iris Graphics on Retina quality displays shows that they care about 4k display quality - certainly without a discrete GPU a Mini could not be connected to a 5k Apple Display. And with the case able to dissipate a 45w TDP Apple could actually make 30w worth of dGPU available as a BTO option if they felt they could design a motherboard to optionally accept one.

An advanced spec quad core Mac Mini based on 28w Coffee Lake CPUs with Iris Graphics could indeed make for a popular Mini instead. But my thinking is based on 15w CPUs across the board and external GPU possibilities could make a cheap Mini with i5-8250U a logical choice for Apple. Especially nice if you could spec a Mini with an AMD Pro 550X dGPU. It's this that could make the Mini a good choice for gamers.

Either way it would resolve the immediate future of the Mini ahead of the launch of the modular Mac Pro next year. Anyone who could get by with a revamped Mac Mini offering could then get on and buy one. Anyone who was disappointed and needed something else would get an iMac. Anyone else is buying a iMac Pro or one of the laptops.

There remains one fly in the ointment which would complicate matters for Apple. The Coffee Lake 6 core i5 CPUs don't come with hyperthreading. The quad core Coffee Lake mobile chips have only 4 cores but do come with 8 threads (rather than the 6 threads in the i5 CPUs suitable for iMacs.). Surely a marketing 'challenge' there - thankfully the i5-8250U has a much lower clock speed that consumers can understand.
 
Crucially, the 15w CPU (with Iris Graphics) that Apple use in the base non retina 21.5" iMac doesn't currently have an equivalent Coffee Lake unit. That said that model would not be used in a revamped 2018 iMac lineup because it makes sense for the entire iMac lineup to go retina with the direction of travel of the refreshes to date.

The only available 15w CPU is the 4 core i5-8250U which doesn't come with Iris Graphics. Apple's use of Iris Graphics on Retina quality displays shows that they care about 4k display quality - certainly without a discrete GPU a Mini could not be connected to a 5k Apple Display. And with the case able to dissipate a 45w TDP Apple could actually make 30w worth of dGPU available as a BTO option if they felt they could design a motherboard to optionally accept one.

An advanced spec quad core Mac Mini based on 28w Coffee Lake CPUs with Iris Graphics could indeed make for a popular Mini instead. But my thinking is based on 15w CPUs across the board and external GPU possibilities could make a cheap Mini with i5-8250U a logical choice for Apple. Especially nice if you could spec a Mini with an AMD Pro 550X dGPU. It's this that could make the Mini a good choice for gamers.

Either way it would resolve the immediate future of the Mini ahead of the launch of the modular Mac Pro next year. Anyone who could get by with a revamped Mac Mini offering could then get on and buy one. Anyone who was disappointed and needed something else would get an iMac. Anyone else is buying a iMac Pro or one of the laptops.

There remains one fly in the ointment which would complicate matters for Apple. The Coffee Lake 6 core i5 CPUs don't come with hyperthreading. The quad core Coffee Lake mobile chips have only 4 cores but do come with 8 threads (rather than the 6 threads in the i5 CPUs suitable for iMacs.). Surely a marketing 'challenge' there - thankfully the i5-8250U has a much lower clock speed that consumers can understand.
The new Mac mini lineup won’t eliminate dual core CPUs. There’s no reason a refreshed base mini needs Coffee Lake; it could easily be the i5-7360U part used by the that the June 2017 refresh of the entry level iMac and 13” MBP. Dual and quad core CPUs at the 28W U-series as you move up from that single 15W base mini SKU. There’s evidence this is what Apple is planning for the refreshed mini, along with a move to socketed, DDR4 RAM that would increase max mem to 32GB.

I didn’t quite get your point regarding the hexa-core processors. It doesn’t sound like you expect them in the mini. I don’t either.

All of the above assumes the easiest “path of least resistance”—quite frankly, the cheapest—option for Apple to refresh the mini. The least expensive way to refresh the mini is to use drop-in replacement CPUs with the current box, retaining the 28W U-series parts. That would mean a combination of Kaby Lake parts like the i5-7267U, i5-7287U and i7-7567U for dual core SKUs and the new Coffee Lake parts for quad core.

However, if Apple is re-architecting/re-imagining what the mini should be, all bets are off. It’ll be interesting to see what they have in mind.
 
The new Mac mini lineup won’t eliminate dual core CPUs. There’s no reason a refreshed base mini needs Coffee Lake; it could easily be the i5-7360U part used by the that the June 2017 refresh of the entry level iMac and 13” MBP. Dual and quad core CPUs at the 28W U-series as you move up from that single 15W base mini SKU. There’s evidence this is what Apple is planning for the refreshed mini, along with a move to socketed, DDR4 RAM that would increase max mem to 32GB.

I didn’t quite get your point regarding the hexa-core processors. It doesn’t sound like you expect them in the mini. I don’t either.

All of the above assumes the easiest “path of least resistance”—quite frankly, the cheapest—option for Apple to refresh the mini. The least expensive way to refresh the mini is to use drop-in replacement CPUs with the current box, retaining the 28W U-series parts. That would mean a combination of Kaby Lake parts like the i5-7267U, i5-7287U and i7-7567U for dual core SKUs and the new Coffee Lake parts for quad core.

However, if Apple is re-architecting/re-imagining what the mini should be, all bets are off. It’ll be interesting to see what they have in mind.

There's no economy of scale to deliberately use older CPUs just for the reduced core count. The FCBGA1356 socket type required by the i5-7360U is different to the Haswell era FCBGA1168 socket - therefore no drop-in replacement possible.

Similarly, the Coffee Lake mobile CPUs require FCBGA1528 socket and modern motherboard and if Apple are using them in more products they can make larger orders and benefit from lower cost per unit.

The only way the Mini is cheap is if they rob from the various parts bins they have lying around. It's always robbed from the MacBook Pro.

Laptop CPUs are generally soldered onto the motherboard. Intel are only just launching B series desktop class CPUs which I think are destined for the iMac. These are both soldered onto the motherboard like laptop ones but also cheap. In this case, Apple could use one of these 65w CPUs in a custom headless Mac but that would really be cannibalising the iMac even if they stuck with the i5-8400B which is 6 cores at 2.8GHz with UHD630 graphics.

I genuinely think that the new Mini will be specified to avoid cannibalisation. Very important now with Modular Mac Pro on the horizon. It would be singularly amazing if they went with a powerful SKU with cannibalisation of the iMac to avoid.
 
Or how about Apple continue with the current Mini line up before the refresh, but simply reflect the dropping price of the components.
Take $50-75 of each model.
Then surely no one could complain.

Btw, the new Mac mini is almost certainly coming.
Nope, it actually is not coming. The only possibility at this time would be a low end "module" to the upcoming modular Pro.

Anyone who has needed more power than the current mac mini has already moved on to things like the NUC that have way more power and flexibility. So whatever they do will be too late. I suspect they may go the above mentioned route to try and assuage mini fans. But we'll see. The womb of time reveals all.

If Mr. Jobs was still with us, the base mini would have 256 SSD and 8GB for $599. It would be a computer you would be proud to recommend to your grandmother. This current one is laughable.
 
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Valid? Try again. All your use cases could probably be addressed with a $239 refurbished iPad.

Or pretty much any other desktop or laptop made in the past decade.

No idea why you'd spend $500 on a "new" 4-year old ultraboook-powered dual-core desktop with a 5400 RPM hard drive, 4 GB of DDR3 RAM, and no USB-C/TB3 (I was told two years ago these are the "future" and everything else is "legacy"!). :rolleyes:

Even laptops in that price range have better drives and 8 GB of RAM.
 
There's no economy of scale to deliberately use older CPUs just for the reduced core count. The FCBGA1356 socket type required by the i5-7360U is different to the Haswell era FCBGA1168 socket - therefore no drop-in replacement possible.

Similarly, the Coffee Lake mobile CPUs require FCBGA1528 socket and modern motherboard and if Apple are using them in more products they can make larger orders and benefit from lower cost per unit.

The only way the Mini is cheap is if they rob from the various parts bins they have lying around. It's always robbed from the MacBook Pro.

Laptop CPUs are generally soldered onto the motherboard. Intel are only just launching B series desktop class CPUs which I think are destined for the iMac. These are both soldered onto the motherboard like laptop ones but also cheap. In this case, Apple could use one of these 65w CPUs in a custom headless Mac but that would really be cannibalising the iMac even if they stuck with the i5-8400B which is 6 cores at 2.8GHz with UHD630 graphics.

I genuinely think that the new Mini will be specified to avoid cannibalisation. Very important now with Modular Mac Pro on the horizon. It would be singularly amazing if they went with a powerful SKU with cannibalisation of the iMac to avoid.
I wasn’t clear when I said “drop-in replacement”. Not a drop-in to the 2014 motherboard—that’s the older generation mini that’s being obsoleted by the upcoming refresh.

I mean Apple will use the June 2017 entry-level 1080 display iMac, which uses the 15W i5-7360u (like the entry level non-TB 13” MBP) to also drop-in the 28W processors I mentioned that are also used in the 13” MBP (i5-7267U, i5-7287U and i7-7567U). These are all FCBGA1356 parts. Presumably, Apple keeps selling dual core 13” MBP at the lower end, while introducing quad core at the upper end—exactly like I’m proposing for the refreshed mini.

Apple wouldn’t be using older parts just to reduce core count. They would simply be basing the dual core machines on an existing design—typical mini strategy. This gives them lower end minis at lesser cost, since they’re leveraging an existing design.

Quad-core minis would be based on the Coffee Lake 2018 13” MBP—actually the motherboard would more likely come from a new 2018 low end iMac, since like the 2017 entry level iMac, it’ll have all the ports people want on a desktop. (Apple either keeps the 2017 dual core iMac entry level machine in the lineup, or discontinues it altogether in favor of this new low end Coffee Lake quad core. 1080 display may or may not stick around.)

There is no particular issue with cannibalization, Apple will just price the mini a few hundred dollars below an equivalently specced 13” MBP. Apple won’t care which you buy, they’ll make their margin either way.

And except for the low end entry level models which the refreshed mini will be based upon, the current iMac line uses more powerful desktop parts in the 65-130W range. Plus, they’ll be getting hexa-cores. So there’s not a lot of cannibalization Apple needs to worry about from a refreshed mini with a 28W max TDP. Again, Apple will simply price the mini such that they’ll be OK if you choose it instead of an iMac.
 
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I wasn’t clear when I said “drop-in replacement”. Not a drop-in to the 2014 motherboard—that’s the older generation mini that’s being obsoleted by the upcoming refresh.

I mean Apple will use the June 2017 entry-level 1080 display iMac, which uses the 15W i5-7360u (like the entry level non-TB 13” MBP) to also drop-in the 28W processors I mentioned that are also used in the 13” MBP (i5-7267U, i5-7287U and i7-7567U). These are all FCBGA1356 parts. Presumably, Apple keeps selling dual core 13” MBP at the lower end, while introducing quad core at the upper end—exactly like I’m proposing for the refreshed mini.

Apple wouldn’t be using older parts just to reduce core count. They would simply be basing the dual core machines on an existing design—typical mini strategy. This gives them lower end minis at lesser cost, since they’re leveraging an existing design.

Quad-core minis would be based on the Coffee Lake 2018 13” MBP—actually the motherboard would more likely come from a new 2018 low end iMac, since like the 2017 entry level iMac, it’ll have all the ports people want on a desktop. (Apple either keeps the 2017 dual core iMac entry level machine in the lineup, or discontinues it altogether in favor of this new low end Coffee Lake quad core. 1080 display may or may not stick around.)

There is no particular issue with cannibalization, Apple will just price the mini a few hundred dollars below an equivalently specced 13” MBP. Apple won’t care which you buy, they’ll make their margin either way.

And except for the low end entry level models which the refreshed mini will be based upon, the current iMac line uses more powerful desktop parts in the 65-130W range. Plus, they’ll be getting hexa-cores. So there’s not a lot of cannibalization Apple needs to worry about from a refreshed mini with a 28W max TDP. Again, Apple will simply price the mini such that they’ll be OK if you choose it instead of an iMac.

Only problem is 2018 is the year that I expect the iMac range to go fully retina (ie Apple finish the trajectory that started with the first Retina 5k iMac). The base price might have to hike up a little to cover the cost of the retina screen - maybe $50-100. But that will allow Apple to finally say their desktop range is now fully retina.

This leaves a slightly bigger gap in the lower end of the desktop market which could be filled by a refreshed Mini. Remember that Apple accept less margin than normal on the Mini and the $499 starting price point is there to keep shareholders happy.

I reckon if they are going to make some money out of the Mini range they ought to make a Mac Mini pro - do a space grey version of the existing case and make it PCIe SSD only, releasing more room inside for heatsink and a small dGPU although I'd be unsure if they could find a 15w Xeon-E part (currently unreleased) to make up the numbers. That would perhaps satisfy the serious semi-pro users.
 
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Apple could certainly discontinue the 3 SKUs below the 8GB/SSD mini and just start the mini lineup at $899.
So 4 more gigs of RAM and price difference from 1TB HDD to 255Gig SSD at Apples BULK purchasing prices, is $400?

And we are the ones who don’t get it?

Torturing your loved ones with a pathetic experience or using a $499 Mac mini for something that can be served just as well with a raspberry Pi and a $50 external drive, do not excuse the pathetic state of the current base mini.

PiDisk-music-server-with-Raspberry-Pi.jpg
 
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Torturing your loved ones with a pathetic experience or using a $499 Mac mini for something that can be served just as well with a raspberry Pi and a $50 external drive, do not excuse the pathetic state of the current base mini.

PiDisk-music-server-with-Raspberry-Pi.jpg

I see you sprung for the expensive clear case. Pretty.
Someone needs to figure how to network N of these together so as to make a proper supercomputer.
 
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So 4 more gigs of RAM and price difference from 1TB HDD to 255Gig SSD at Apples BULK purchasing prices, is $400?

And we are the ones who don’t get it?

Torturing your loved ones with a pathetic experience or using a $499 Mac mini for something that can be served just as well with a raspberry Pi and a $50 external drive, do not excuse the pathetic state of the current base mini.

PiDisk-music-server-with-Raspberry-Pi.jpg
Way cool case for that Pi!
 
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