I don’t think Apple is going to dump a 15 year relationship with Intel over iGPU specs.
And regarding negotiation pressure, what’s your point? That Intel won’t be willing to sell at a price acceptable to Apple until after they get dumped?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming
- Thread starter GabrieleR
- Start date
-
- Tags
- mac mini new mac mini
- Sort by reaction score
And regarding negotiation pressure, what’s your point? That Intel won’t be willing to sell at a price acceptable to Apple until after they get dumped?
Never said Apple would or should completely dump the Intel relationship. It’s about second sourcing, the 101 of purchasing, to avoid being to dependent on a single supplier.
Apple could keep Intel in the “Pro” devices, but switch to AMD for non-Pro machines. They may even kill two birds with one stone and differentiate the mini in “Pro” (Intel, more expensive) and consumer (AMD, less expensive). With the price hike that came with the 2018 minis, there is now lots of room for a more affordable desktop Mac, which the mini had been for many years.
Side effect: Gaming capabilities would be improved (Apple Arcade) and a multi-monitor / high-resolution setup would be less of a problem (if any at all), which the current mini’s Intel iGPU seems to be for quite some users.
Apple could keep Intel in the “Pro” devices, but switch to AMD for non-Pro machines. They may even kill two birds with one stone and differentiate the mini in “Pro” (Intel, more expensive) and consumer (AMD, less expensive). With the price hike that came with the 2018 minis, there is now lots of room for a more affordable desktop Mac, which the mini had been for many years.
Side effect: Gaming capabilities would be improved (Apple Arcade) and a multi-monitor / high-resolution setup would be less of a problem (if any at all), which the current mini’s Intel iGPU seems to be for quite some users.
It's Apple's modus operandi that the price point remains the price throughout the lifetime of a product with very few exceptions. It runs counter to how PC prices 'depreciate slowly over a matter of months before a product is replaced with new CPUs etc. But it keeps residuals high.
It also makes the opening price a 'bargain' comparatively speaking during the lifetime of a product. Where it goes wrong is when the product vastly outstays its welcome. 2 years is stretching it but the 2013 Mac Pro (6 years) and 2014 Mac mini (4 years) really took the biscuit.
The original Mac mini case solution was designed to cool 45w CPUs, and the cooling solution was enhanced to manage the 65w TDP from Coffee Lake desktops. There's probably no doubt that it could deal with the equivalent Comet Lake S CPUs which could allow an 8 core, 16 thread i9 SKU.
It's this cooling solution that makes me wonder if adding a 45w H series Comet Lake CPU to the Mini is a better bet for sustained CPU work even though it will probably be a hard sell in terms of benchmarks.
Some users may disagree with the efficacy of the heat output from the 2018 Mac mini, of course, and others would point to the expense of adding an eGPU to the package to make it a headless all-rounder that many are looking at.
[automerge]1583795434[/automerge]
Got to consider how much of Intel's discounting includes hefty exclusivity bonus.
Bear in mind also that the Mac mini can't cool a Ryzen 65w CPU which would require a dGPU - and Colo companies could not care less about extra integrated GPU power.
Apple Arcade is going to be better off staying with the ARM platform, gaming on the macOS platform will be limited to years overdue PC ports - Metal needs years of development and I still don't see Apple doing a Microsoft and paying for exclusive development of macOS gaming titles when they could be making an ARM based AppleTV games console instead.
There might be space for a $2k Mini Pro but Apple seem intent to making users buy into the iMac platform for that sort of money.
Last edited:
The 2018 mini's cooling system is targeted at 65W. And the Ryzen CPU's with integrated VEGA GPU have a TDP of 65W (cTDP: 45W). No need for a dGPU and the existing cooling system would be sufficient.
Those wouldn't be the target group for an AMD powered mini anyway. They could continue to get Intel CPU's with the mini "Pro". Apple wouldn't even need to introduce the "Pro" moniker for the mini and could instead make the CPU an optional CTO part.
I wonder how much additional cooling effectiveness there would be if they increased just the height, i.e., like the AppleTV 3rd to 4th/4K gen, ~60% (not quite double. Better isolation of the power components? Larger / more fans?
[automerge]1583858444[/automerge]
[automerge]1583858444[/automerge]
The mere possibility that "colo" companies exert any influence over the Mac Mini's evolution (or lack thereof) annoys me greatly. If they insist on making stupid novelty server racks full of consumer-grade gear, then they should just take whatever they're given, and not get in the way of actual consumers.
Last edited:
Bigger heatsink would be nice for a quiet time but extra size = cost in a data centre so I'm reasonably sure the Mini won't get bigger.
Yeah, I know the form factor is sort of baked into a number of use cases (like your example). It was really more of a thought exercise, if Apple was willing to reconsider the size ...
Hahaha, if they did do something like that, make is __square__, like a computing Borg cube and/or an Apple Cube callback
You do realize they are consumers, right, and they probably account for a not-insignificant percentage of mini purchases? There's a reason they showed them off in a slide when they revamped the machine.
We probably have pressure from these Colo companies to thank in part for the resurrection of the Mini - they may have bought these in the thousands to refresh their data centres. And they'll want to keep the pressure up so we don't have another 2 years to wait for another refresh.
The Ryzen 5 3400g (3.7GHz 4 cores, 8 threads) may be interesting but in terms of CPU benchmarks it won't threaten an i5-10400 (allegedly 2.9GHz base clock, 6 cores, 12 threads) after Intel have applied their special discount for Apple exclusivity. The Intel CPU is far more interesting for code compiling or video rendering.
I wouldn't mind a Mac with a more interesting balance of GPU and CPU for hobbyists but I can't see Apple going with AMD unless it's across the range to include iMacs too.
You’re mixing up second sourcing with using alternative components (compatible in function, but not identical) from different manufacturers. Second sourcing is having two suppliers for an identical part. Buying DRAM from Micron or Samsung is second sourcing, when Apple had both Samsung and TSMC making the A9 or buying display panels from Samsung and LG simultaneously.
But that’s not the situation with CPUs. They are extremely complex. This is not a interchangeable parts/second sourcing situation. Everything from microcode updates and instruction set extensions to potential exploits (and their possible mitigation) is different between AMD and Intel.
There would be a lot of upfront engineering resources required, as well as long term sustaining engineering support implications involved with a possible move from Intel to AMD. It’s not a decision Apple would make lightly.
Apple just dumped Intel’s baseband modems for Qualcomm. Intel understands quite well that Apple is absolutely willing to go somewhere else if they can’t get what they need from Intel. That may be what’s driving the rumored switch from Intel to Apple ARM. In any case, there’s no way Apple switches to AMD in the interim imo. That would be a foolish decision.
PS There was no price hike with the 2018 mini. Taking inflation into account, it was actually a price cut from 2014.
Last edited:
It's about time for Apple to release bigger Mini.
People have waited for it since G4.
Technically the G4 mini *was* bigger
(But yeah, given that the mini is no longer 'mini' in the realm of NUCs and they're positioning it more as a higher-end machine that the low-end Mac it used to be, I think it makes a certain amount of sense to make it a bit bigger and scale up its capabilities.)
One reason the NUC and the like are smaller is that they use an external power supply.Technically the G4 mini *was* bigger
(But yeah, given that the mini is no longer 'mini' in the realm of NUCs and they're positioning it more as a higher-end machine that the low-end Mac it used to be, I think it makes a certain amount of sense to make it a bit bigger and scale up its capabilities.)
I love that the Mac Mini is so self-contained. Naturally there are compromises when you stuff everything into a small shell, so that's a series of tradeoffs Apple has to gauge. I personally would accept a larger form factor for more graphics/processing power. I'd be ok with a Mac Mini twice as thick as the current model with the same length/width. But that's about as big as I'd want before I switched to a minitower or slim desktop.
The new Mac Mini has come, albeit a minor, but much needed update. Base model storage has been doubled to 256 GB, and 512 GB in the higher end model, with pricing unchanged. I for one, would consider buying one now.... Either the high end model off the shop floor, or more likely the lower spec model custom ordered with 1 TB.....
Roll on the day when this transient phase of my life ends, and I can set up a Mac Mini on a desk again. My 2017 Air is OK for my needs for now, but I do prefer use a desktop with a decent sized monitor and better sounding speakers.... and a mouse.
The new Mac Mini, with more substantial updates is almost certainly coming..... in a year or two or three.
Roll on the day when this transient phase of my life ends, and I can set up a Mac Mini on a desk again. My 2017 Air is OK for my needs for now, but I do prefer use a desktop with a decent sized monitor and better sounding speakers.... and a mouse.
The new Mac Mini, with more substantial updates is almost certainly coming..... in a year or two or three.
Last edited:
Intel doesn't have the 10th gen chips suitable for it out, so I feel like that's what to look at before you start tapping shoes.
As is, I'm trying to see if I can get a discount on my pending Mac mini order. Live chat just times out "connecting to a specialist" so I'm guessing their support staff is run pretty thin right about now.
I don't quite get this. Or maybe I'm missing something? But it looks like this isn't an "upgrade" at all, it's the exact same product but the optional 256gb SSD is now standard. Doesn't do anything for me. If it had a dedicated GPU, or even a newer integrated GPU, then I might be interested. But the high spec model is what I'd want, not these base models. Oh well...
Anyway, this strikes me as a bad time to buy a computer, unless you really need one. I'd wait awhile, and considering the economy, there will probably be some sales. Right now, my 2012 quad still does what I need, and money in the bank makes me much happier than a new computer on my desk.
Anyway, this strikes me as a bad time to buy a computer, unless you really need one. I'd wait awhile, and considering the economy, there will probably be some sales. Right now, my 2012 quad still does what I need, and money in the bank makes me much happier than a new computer on my desk.
I don't quite get this. Or maybe I'm missing something? But it looks like this isn't an "upgrade" at all, it's the exact same product but the optional 256gb SSD is now standard. Doesn't do anything for me. If it had a dedicated GPU, or even a newer integrated GPU, then I might be interested. But the high spec model is what I'd want, not these base models. Oh well...
Anyway, this strikes me as a bad time to buy a computer, unless you really need one. I'd wait awhile, and considering the economy, there will probably be some sales. Right now, my 2012 quad still does what I need, and money in the bank makes me much happier than a new computer on my desk.
If I get to a point where the $1.5K I spent on a Mac mini is the difference between being fine and catastrophe in the current climate, the world has bigger things to worry about
As is, the appeal of the machine for me is that I can still run Mojave on it versus an update, and so I'll be able to dual-boot to a newer OS while keeping a legacy volume for my 32-bit apps and games.
If I get to a point where the $1.5K I spent on a Mac mini is the difference between being fine and catastrophe in the current climate, the world has bigger things to worry about
I did not say that the cost of a Mini would cause me to fall into catastrophe. It sounds like your circumstances are different though, and you feel that a new computer is necessary. I don't.
I have multiple old computers, expensive software, video gear and home repairs to consider. This would cost far more than $1500, so I'm going to prioritize things, take my time and wait to see if lower prices are coming. But, sadly, I think that there are plenty of other Americans who wish they did have an extra $1500 in the bank.
Last edited:
Don’t worry, Apple will refund the difference to give you the new pricing 🙂
And as you say, the 10th gen Comet Lake parts aren’t released yet, though they are rumored to be released soon. If the chips do ship in April as some reports claim, June/July would be the soonest we would probably see them. 8/10-core parts are expected.
Sounds about right for when Intel will have a new CPU in the socket the Mini uses available.
Can't upgrade when your suppliers (Intel) have nothing to upgrade to.