In that case you should concentrate on changing your workflow to do more things at the same time.
If all your professional applications only use a single core I doubt the Mac Pro is really the right machine for you. It is a workstation.
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The new Mac Pro pricing is preposterous!
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In that case you should concentrate on changing your workflow to do more things at the same time.
If all your professional applications only use a single core I doubt the Mac Pro is really the right machine for you. It is a workstation.
I think using cpu prices alone is not an accurate measure of what the machine itself SHOULD cost. These are extraodinary times. The price of everything has likely increased because of numerous factors.
My meagre noggin can't spell it all out like some people in this forum can, but I think when you add all the components, shipping, r&d, design, manuf., etc., you might find that Apple isn't taking you for as much as you suspect.
I know there is a premium, but I think Apple deserves to make a GOOD profit. If I had to build these machines (and I CAN'T), I'd want £1k profit, for sure. You're in it to make money and deserve the profit for your good work. These are great machines and we should reward what we value.
Should we whine about the price of Nikon or Leica? Do you whine about Armani or Louis Vuitton? Do you whine when you purchase a quality cut of aged beef? Nike is expensive, nobody complains. They certainly aren't paying much for labor and the materials are the same as any other sneaker.
I know these are very poor comparisons, but my point is that with certain items you're paying something entirely other than the cost of the components.
There's a certain amount of prestige and quality which is difficult to put a price on, but it is of definite value, and so results in a higher price, although the cost of the components are often the same as similar products.
If Macs weren't expensive to begin, then they wouldn't be what they are. They'd be Dell and then none of us would be happy.
My meagre noggin can't spell it all out like some people in this forum can, but I think when you add all the components, shipping, r&d, design, manuf., etc., you might find that Apple isn't taking you for as much as you suspect.
I know there is a premium, but I think Apple deserves to make a GOOD profit. If I had to build these machines (and I CAN'T), I'd want £1k profit, for sure. You're in it to make money and deserve the profit for your good work. These are great machines and we should reward what we value.
Should we whine about the price of Nikon or Leica? Do you whine about Armani or Louis Vuitton? Do you whine when you purchase a quality cut of aged beef? Nike is expensive, nobody complains. They certainly aren't paying much for labor and the materials are the same as any other sneaker.
I know these are very poor comparisons, but my point is that with certain items you're paying something entirely other than the cost of the components.
There's a certain amount of prestige and quality which is difficult to put a price on, but it is of definite value, and so results in a higher price, although the cost of the components are often the same as similar products.
If Macs weren't expensive to begin, then they wouldn't be what they are. They'd be Dell and then none of us would be happy.
Really ?
Uh, why ? Seriously. Is this just some amusing hyperbole or some factual information that has revealed that all Dell customers are unhappy with their purchase ?
Sorry, I mean no loyal Apple customers would be happy if Apple started making products of Dell quality and appearance. I know I showed my butt here... it's just that I'm annoyed by all the price gripes. I really don't think it's soo much more for what you're getting. I think it might be the cpu rating that is prompting so many complaints.
Mmm... not really. They're an OEM; of course they got a discount.
They're NOT getting a discount on THESE, is more what I'm saying. Possibly because they wanted them early.
Only to the extent it affects their bottom line. Unless it hampers their effectiveness in the marketplace, their motives are their own.
This statement, however, is just wrong though. Nothing is SUPPOSED to happen. Only what the market dictates. If pro users abandon Apple for Dells Apple will change.
As long as Apple legally ties their hardware and software, there's not much consumers can do about it if they want to buy OSX.
In a few months time I'm quietly confident that the CPU prices will come down.
I wouldn't buy at the current price points unless I absolutely needed a Mac Pro.
I wouldn't buy at the current price points unless I absolutely needed a Mac Pro.
I suppose the point isn't that Apple charges premium for premium product. The point is that at certain point in the recent past that premium stopped being consistent. To give you example - we were fed for several years with Mac Pros for £1600, Mac minis for £375 and laptops for £599. Many built their business around that structure using Apple equipment rather that Dell's or IBMs. Few years down the line, in the worst possible economic time Apple decides, rightly or wrongly, to pull SGI on everyone - "you are fan boys now, you pay fanboy prices". £1000 premium for upgrade to I7 Mac Pro (Octo 2.26 vs old Octo 2.8) that, on performance level is no upgrade at all, that's a lot to ask. It's a lot to ask in best of economic times. It's a lot to ask from the blindest of fanboys. £150 premium on old £375 Mac Mini, for addition of new, bottom quality graphics chip is nuts.
It's not a question whether Apple deserve good profit or not. It's a question of not fleecing your customers just because most of them are not particularly technically minded but like pretty things. Mac Pro range is used by many professionals who know just about any workstation spec on the market and they are now standing, like me, with jaws to the floor looking at £1899 single CPU box with memory limitation straight from ninenties and one memory slot short of any usable tri-channel configuration and wonder who was stupid enough to design 8 slots instead of 12, who was mad enough to approve it for market and why, on earth, two grand doesn't even buy you £56 worth of 1Tb primary drive? It's one thing to charge me £1600 for a box worth £1000 just because it's pretty. It's quite another to charge me £1900 for a box worth £600 and is slower that the box I previously bought for £1600. Or to ask £300 for a bog standard £140 worth of graphics card. It's not funny, it's not amusing, it's not whether I like Apple logo and getting electric shocks from alloy chasis every time I wear wool socks - it's simply a question of them not being rude to me, my business, and for the love of god, not treating Apple users like bunch of stupid teenage girls.
It's not a question whether Apple deserve good profit or not. It's a question of not fleecing your customers just because most of them are not particularly technically minded but like pretty things. Mac Pro range is used by many professionals who know just about any workstation spec on the market and they are now standing, like me, with jaws to the floor looking at £1899 single CPU box with memory limitation straight from ninenties and one memory slot short of any usable tri-channel configuration and wonder who was stupid enough to design 8 slots instead of 12, who was mad enough to approve it for market and why, on earth, two grand doesn't even buy you £56 worth of 1Tb primary drive? It's one thing to charge me £1600 for a box worth £1000 just because it's pretty. It's quite another to charge me £1900 for a box worth £600 and is slower that the box I previously bought for £1600. Or to ask £300 for a bog standard £140 worth of graphics card. It's not funny, it's not amusing, it's not whether I like Apple logo and getting electric shocks from alloy chasis every time I wear wool socks - it's simply a question of them not being rude to me, my business, and for the love of god, not treating Apple users like bunch of stupid teenage girls.
But in most applications that can only utilize a single core, it really does matter.
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Doc,what test and what source?
I can agree with that. I don't think you can directly compare the 2008 prices of Mac Pros to 2009 Mac Pros without knowing what Apple actually pays now for the processors vs what Apple actually payed then for processors. My feeling is that Apple got very good prices from Intel for processors in 2008 while they are currently not getting a discount on the 2009 processors.
I can't see Apple lowering it's price on the same model of Mac Pro after the iPhone price fiasco. Unless Apple pockets the extra money, I can see a small upgrade instead (more RAM, small speedbump, etc).
I myself am not counting on a price reduction or another upgrade but am waiting on Snow Leopard before deciding what I want.
Let me clarify my point.
If we look at prices 5 years ago...
You could buy a high end imac for $1899... 2009 high end imac is $2199.
You could buy a high end 15' powerbook for $2499... 2009 Mac Book pro is $2799.
You could buy a high end ibook for $1299... 2009 macbook is $1599.
You could buy a high end Power mac for $2999... 2009 Mac Pro is $5899.
So my question still stands...wtf happened to the pricing of the Mac Pro's? I understand the chips are more expensive, and its a mac so its its got it's followers, but come on. If BMW released their new 2009 7-series this year for $160,000 instead of $80,000 people would laugh their butts off... Especially if it looked the same as the the 2008 model!
If we look at prices 5 years ago...
You could buy a high end imac for $1899... 2009 high end imac is $2199.
You could buy a high end 15' powerbook for $2499... 2009 Mac Book pro is $2799.
You could buy a high end ibook for $1299... 2009 macbook is $1599.
You could buy a high end Power mac for $2999... 2009 Mac Pro is $5899.
So my question still stands...wtf happened to the pricing of the Mac Pro's? I understand the chips are more expensive, and its a mac so its its got it's followers, but come on. If BMW released their new 2009 7-series this year for $160,000 instead of $80,000 people would laugh their butts off... Especially if it looked the same as the the 2008 model!
Yeah but the new BMW would have a lot more horsepower for the same price and the high end 100% more or so.
could just be the college crowd, but everybody i know who has a dell wants or ended up getting a mac. also, i've never seen a functioning dell anywhere other than a reception desk at a post facility-- and even those were replaced by iMacs. i also personally had two bad experiences with dell QC.
... so even though it's a logical fallacy to think that dells are unsatisfying for everybody, it's logically valid to assume that a lot of people are unhappy with them.
Every mac has been faster than its previous generation, thats nothing new. Last, I checked, we didn't pay a premium of 200% for that in that past. And its still lagging in single threaded apps which for the millions of photoshop users is kind of a joke (not to mention the majority of everyday apps that are single threaded.)
Also, this price increase in the Mac Pro's didn't start overnight with the Nehalem macs. They have been getting about 40% more expensive a year for the past five years compared to the 5% or so for all other macs.
There is a certain university in my area that uses only Dell servers 2950s and better. There are hundreds of them, maybe more. They are excellent and very reliable servers. They put any mac server to shame. There is nothing wrong with Dell. Like everyone except Apple, Dell makes crappy low end stuff. caveat emptor
Boo freaken Hoo.
The quads are little messed up, but the octos rock. I think we'd all like a better entry or an xMac between the Pro and Mini/iMac, but I think the CPU marketing makes it impossible. It will probably be better next year. So, buy old, suck it up, or wait.
The quads are little messed up, but the octos rock. I think we'd all like a better entry or an xMac between the Pro and Mini/iMac, but I think the CPU marketing makes it impossible. It will probably be better next year. So, buy old, suck it up, or wait.
It never was when comparing differing architectures.
Within a single architecture, it remains a reasonably
reliable approximate measure.
I suggest that your Photoshop benchmark result is misleading.
I notice that you are advertising the new Mac Pro on your site.
The ad links directly to the Apple store.
Are Apple paying you to display that ad?
No, based on results from elsewhere. Even Apple's own
benchmarks are not as wildly optimistic.
Blame the Intel transition? Xeon chips are expensive. Maybe PowerPCs were not..since they didn't have specific server chips?