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The new Mac Pro pricing is preposterous!
- Thread starter Doc69
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This is quite reasonable. A relatively decent estimate can be made, and at worst, just use the quantity pricing. (Personally what I think Apple is paying, but did manage to make arrangements with Intel for early access).
The price/performance ratio has certainly declined. Another post (not sure which thread), was indicating lower pricing from Dell and Lenovo.
I'll look, as I'm always curious about what they offer anyway.
But in my case, it's all moot, as I decided to build months ago. The case internals won't meet my needs, and the external enclosure solution was too expensive once included in the total cost. I don't have to have OS X, as my primary software isn't available in OS X for all packages. (They run together, and VM isn't an option either).
Actually, that's what we've been saying the whole time. It's just that people brought CPU prices into the equation.
Higher prices + cheaper chips (this really means lower-end in the chip lineup) can mean worse value.
Unfairness of MP pricing is not about what CPUs cost now.
CPUs prices will drop constantly, but MP's price will stay for the whole time the model is sold.
If somebody would have time & effort to research what MP-2006 & MP-2008 cpu's prices were when models were introduced & discontinued, that would give us some meaningful info to consider new MP's price...
CPUs prices will drop constantly, but MP's price will stay for the whole time the model is sold.
If somebody would have time & effort to research what MP-2006 & MP-2008 cpu's prices were when models were introduced & discontinued, that would give us some meaningful info to consider new MP's price...
it has been posted 10 times in some kind of mp09 sucks threads, and always people have come to the same conclusion; 08>09 is not justified for a price raise because performance bump is not as big as 06>08 with NO price raise was.
what apple should have done, they should have raised the price between 06>08 when base model performance bump was 110% and price bump 0%, although slight bump would be justified, and kept the price same in the 08>09 transition, to make people happier.
i guess they didnt expect the financial crisis and ****.
Yep. By all my tests and in all my experience it really IS the MGHz! The multi-core performance which everyone seems to be focusing on so intensely isn't meaningful (at all) to 90% of the users and only meaningful about 10% to 20% of the time for those who actually have a need - maybe less.
The performance difference between the 2008 and the 2009 machines is right on schedule and in accordance with every machine release from Apple for the past 20 years straight. I looked it up. (I can post it if anyone is interested). The prices however are for the 1st time in 20 years completely preposterous just as the OP alleges.
So, now that's settled what are we going to do about it?
The new Mac Pro's are roughly 2x faster than the older 8 cores in Compressor/Qmaster and most rendering apps. Let me rephrase... for my PRO needs a Mac Pro is well worth the price. If you don't need the cores well then get a Mac Mini. What you guys want iPhoto to go faster? I find it preposterous that some can't afford an high end machine and bitch and moan all day. Do you see a communist logo on the Apple brand?
I find it preposterous that some can't afford an high end machine and bitch and moan all day. Do you see a communist logo on the Apple brand?I agree with you here, the performance is good (besides the lack of a 3.2 GHz). But the prices have just jumped up.
There would be few complaints if the 2.27/2.67/2.93 GHz CPUs were actually 2.67/2.93/3.2 GHz, or if the prices went down a few hundred dollars for both models.
Power when (and where) you need it.
The new Mac Pro introduces Turbo Boost: a dynamic performance technology that automatically boosts the processor clock speed based on workload. If youre using an application that doesnt need every core, Turbo Boost shuts off the idle cores while simultaneously increasing the speed of the active ones, up to 3.33GHz on a 2.93GHz Mac Pro.
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I have no complaints.
Power when (and where) you need it.
The new Mac Pro introduces Turbo Boost: a dynamic performance technology that automatically boosts the processor clock speed based on workload. If youre using an application that doesnt need every core, Turbo Boost shuts off the idle cores while simultaneously increasing the speed of the active ones, up to 3.33GHz on a 2.93GHz Mac Pro.
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I have no complaints.
Comparing apple's to oranges. If the mac pro skews each shifted up a speed bin, each would "turbo" proportionally.
And the turbo is already factored in to the benchmarks; If the 2.66 sold at the 2.26 price, there would be little question that the price/performance of the 2009 models increased at its traditional rate over the prior year.
If you were to build a Mac Pro yourself, we now have prices on one of the CPU's.
http://www.buy.com/prod/XEON-QUAD-C...P2-26G-8MB-MM-901030/q/loc/101/210672736.html
So lets say.
$800 = 2xCPU
$300 = 1050 Watt Power Supply
$110 = 6GB Ram
$500 = Dual Processor Board
$250 = Case
$190 = ATI Card
$75 = 640GB Drive
Total: $2225
The equivalent Mac config is $3179 with a student discount. So a difference of $945.
Mac comes with around $200 of free software, so say your difference is now $745. This really isn't as bad as what a lot of us may have initially thought.
Although the the Quad Mac Pro's are a whole different story since these parts are CHEAP!
http://www.buy.com/prod/XEON-QUAD-C...P2-26G-8MB-MM-901030/q/loc/101/210672736.html
So lets say.
$800 = 2xCPU
$300 = 1050 Watt Power Supply
$110 = 6GB Ram
$500 = Dual Processor Board
$250 = Case
$190 = ATI Card
$75 = 640GB Drive
Total: $2225
The equivalent Mac config is $3179 with a student discount. So a difference of $945.
Mac comes with around $200 of free software, so say your difference is now $745. This really isn't as bad as what a lot of us may have initially thought.
Although the the Quad Mac Pro's are a whole different story since these parts are CHEAP!
It will be interesting to see what the UK prices are. You've been a little generous with the software allowance (OSX=$120 ?) and comparing with the student rather than full price. But the big difference with 2008 Mac Pros is that for the 2008 Mac Pro building it yourself (at least in the UK) worked out a lot more expensive, so if it is now much cheaper there is a major change between the two generations.
That is completely correct, I think if we go back to 2008 pricing you probably would have gotten the 2.66 chip in a mac for the same price as the 2.26 system.
With the software I included say OS X + iLife (even though I wouldn't use iLife but for many it has value). If you were to get Windows the OEM cost of that is around $150.
The actual costs of the 2.66 chips is around $1120 more.
Well you are being generous with the ATI card
Swap that out for the default GT 120 and that card is only worth $50.
I think they meant in the past if you add up the cost of parts they were on par/less than what Apple sold them for. Now they parts are cheaper than the previous models (especially ram) they did a 20% increase in price which seems idiotic by a price/performance standpoint.
Plus the decent warrenty isn't free, it's $250 dollars and the OS is worth $120.
So adjusted +140 $ for the proper display card that's a $1,085.00 price increase. And that's WITH a student discount?! So I would say this is what everyone is complaining about. I know I would be complaining at anything over about a $200 price jump. Over $1k classifies at "preposterous!" to me at least.
I just noticed that you omitted the price of the OS however. I dunno what Apple is charging for it but it looks like it can be had for $110 at several places. So that brings us down to $975.00 - I still feel the same about that however. Even +$400 would be pretty crazy IMO.
To be fair, the only reason the OS is $120 (or $110 discounted, I guess) is that Apple knows it runs only on its own hardware - in other words, they can charge less for the OS because they know you already have the hardware, and, furthermore, you have already bought a copy of at least some version of the OS (since hardware comes with an OS).
The "price" of the OS in a world where you could build-your-own systems (legitimately) would be much higher (and, presumably, the hardware would be cheaper).
I priced the card based on a 1GB ATI 4870.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102801
It's $189.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102801
It's $189.
@cmaier
Right. But I took the purpose of this thread as being aimed at figuring out why Apple raised the prices and agreeing or disagreeing with whether or not it's "preposterous".
So far no good reasons have been named that I can see, and you already know that I agree with the OP.
EDIT: Also I'm not so sure it would be that much more:
Vista Home Premium $79 ~ $123
Vista Ultimate Starts at $167.
And as far as I know MS doesn't depend of dedicated hardware sales to offset a price. Also Linux is free.
@davewolfs
But didn't he price the basic Mac with the cheepy GForce card? And added a Student Discount... Not sure why he did that tho.
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PS: To the MODS: I am replying because they quoted me. This is conversing in a friendly informative manner - not spamming or trolling.
Right. But I took the purpose of this thread as being aimed at figuring out why Apple raised the prices and agreeing or disagreeing with whether or not it's "preposterous".
So far no good reasons have been named that I can see, and you already know that I agree with the OP.
EDIT: Also I'm not so sure it would be that much more:
Vista Home Premium $79 ~ $123
Vista Ultimate Starts at $167.
And as far as I know MS doesn't depend of dedicated hardware sales to offset a price. Also Linux is free.
@davewolfs
But didn't he price the basic Mac with the cheepy GForce card? And added a Student Discount... Not sure why he did that tho.
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PS: To the MODS: I am replying because they quoted me. This is conversing in a friendly informative manner - not spamming or trolling.
Last time I checked apple was a "For Profit" so I guess they are making money and that should be a good thing. Last time I checked when manufactures like dell and hp, started to slash prices their overall quality went to CHIT! Apple still makes some of the best computers I have ever used. If and when I want a good workstation I will look at a Pro. Yeah its expensive but from what I have seen and experianced apple seems to get that premium for a reason. Not because they are cool and trendy but because they WORK.
BTW if you want to puke go take a look at the profit margins on your favorite home audio speaker. I remember selling a 5k pair of Martin Logans that had a dealer cost of 2k. YIKES!!!
BTW if you want to puke go take a look at the profit margins on your favorite home audio speaker. I remember selling a 5k pair of Martin Logans that had a dealer cost of 2k. YIKES!!!