Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
absolute nonsense.
Care to elaborate? This type of identification has been in the research stages for years. Do you have any evidence to disprove it or are you just stating you don't believe it?

How bout some actual research on the subject?

https://www.researchgate.net/public...rtbeat_Sub-patterns_for_Person_Identification

1.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: 0098386
No thanks Apple.

You can keep it.

No way.
If everything is done on device and secured what's wrong with being authenticated just by putting your watch on? I think this technique is going to be part of the MacOS login recently introduced.
 
Care to elaborate?

There is research on a lot of things, and your quoted paper is a conference proceedings paper - these are not subjected to critical peer-review, only committee selection. (I should know, I've had dozens, and have chaired medical conferences).
And it describes variation in the electrical signal, it is not a study of the sensitivity or specificity of these changes, which would be required if such measures were to have any value as biometrics.
Show me any properly published research which demonstrates high specificity for this, and then perhaps we'll be getting somewhere.
Until then, yes it's dreamland.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
There is research on a lot of things, and your quoted paper is a conference proceedings paper - these are not subjected to critical peer-review, only committee selection. (I should know, I've had dozens, and have chaired medical conferences).
And it describes variation in the electrical signal, it is not a study of the sensitivity or specificity of these changes, which would be required if such measures were to have any value as biometrics.
Show me any properly published research which demonstrates high specificity for this, and then perhaps we'll be getting somewhere.
Until then, yes it's dreamland.
http://dsn.sagepub.com/content/11/6/549134.full
http://www.inderscience.com/storage/f104531211967812.pdf
http://file.scirp.org/pdf/JIS20120100004_57389606.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4535678/

Is it that your holding off until the security parity between heartbeat signatures and fingerprints is closed, or do you honestly not believe it is a viable identification technique? The way I read you posts you seemed to dispute that heartbeat signatures are unique. Am I misreading your objection?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 0098386
No, my objection is that there is no way this currently works when scaled up to a decent population size, which is of course what would be required for this to be an identification technology.

Did you read those papers, or did you just quickly google, then cut n paste?

"..the majority of the studies have been conducted on a small population (about a few tens of subjects). Therefore, the applicability of ECG biometric recognition on a large scale (real life authentication scenario) it is not yet proven."

"..almost all studies (except for [17] and [31] ) ignored the variability of the ECG during life span (i.e. variability induced by work, ageing, iterate sport activity etc.); moreover, only few studies [57, 83, 136] considered the applicability of these techniques when subjects suffer from pathological conditions. ECG recognition in pathological subjects is another aspect worth of additional investigations."

"it must be emphasised that, while guidelines are available for ECG acquisition in the clinical scenario, there is still a lack of standardisation on ECG acquisition (number of leads and their positioning, sampling frequency, number of bits, filtering, type of electrodes, number of leads etc.) for biometrics applications. However, ECG databases for biometric recognition should ideally include recordings, at a given sampling frequency and conditions, from the same subjects in different circumstances (e.g. relaxed, during and after physical training) and along a period of several years."

And still no discussion of sensitivity and specificity.

Not even remotely close to being a practical and usable technology.
 
this is just NOT possible. Your heart rate can change a lot in many normal and abnormal conditions. I call this BS.

Please cite where heart-rate is referenced in the patent application, I wasn't able to find it.

You DID actually read the application before commenting, right?

Will this work as anticipated? No idea. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Mostly I'm just calling out the oversimplified dismissiveness that comes from not actually reading something before commenting on its viability....
 
  • Like
Reactions: NT1440
No, my objection is that there is no way this currently works when scaled up to a decent population size, which is of course what would be required for this to be an identification technology.

Did you read those papers, or did you just quickly google, then cut n paste?

"..the majority of the studies have been conducted on a small population (about a few tens of subjects). Therefore, the applicability of ECG biometric recognition on a large scale (real life authentication scenario) it is not yet proven."

"..almost all studies (except for [17] and [31] ) ignored the variability of the ECG during life span (i.e. variability induced by work, ageing, iterate sport activity etc.); moreover, only few studies [57, 83, 136] considered the applicability of these techniques when subjects suffer from pathological conditions. ECG recognition in pathological subjects is another aspect worth of additional investigations."

"it must be emphasised that, while guidelines are available for ECG acquisition in the clinical scenario, there is still a lack of standardisation on ECG acquisition (number of leads and their positioning, sampling frequency, number of bits, filtering, type of electrodes, number of leads etc.) for biometrics applications. However, ECG databases for biometric recognition should ideally include recordings, at a given sampling frequency and conditions, from the same subjects in different circumstances (e.g. relaxed, during and after physical training) and along a period of several years."

And still no discussion of sensitivity and specificity.

Not even remotely close to being a practical and usable technology.

Wait, are you under the impression that Apple is going to use this to distinguish one person from another? That wasn't my take on what they want to do at all. Just as TouchID doesn't say "you are user X or Y", this technology would be used to authenticate an individual user to their watch. I'm not sure why it would need to be scaled across populations when it's one subject that matters here.

This is a convenance method, I don't think Apple is planning on using it for anything other than just unlocking your device.

Does that use case I laid out make sense to you? The way I see them using it wouldn't be to compare against a database of other people (which I would have major privacy issues with) but instead used on-device to compare against a baseline to get within X% of certainty to authorize a device unlock.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 0098386
Care to elaborate? This type of identification has been in the research stages for years. Do you have any evidence to disprove it or are you just stating you don't believe it?
Waste of time. You know most of these folks don't bother to read the original cited material before dismissing it out of hand, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gasu E.
http://dsn.sagepub.com/content/11/6/549134.full
http://www.inderscience.com/storage/f104531211967812.pdf
http://file.scirp.org/pdf/JIS20120100004_57389606.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4535678/

Is it that your holding off until the security parity between heartbeat signatures and fingerprints is closed, or do you honestly not believe it is a viable identification technique? The way I read you posts you seemed to dispute that heartbeat signatures are unique. Am I misreading your objection?

Troll trap! He's got you doing his research for you! Meanwhile he just sits back and armchair reacts to your posts. Is it so important to get this guy to agree with you that you have to do his work for him, given he's not intellectually curious enough to do it for himself?
 
Troll trap! He's got you doing his research for you! Meanwhile he just sits back and armchair reacts to your posts. Is it so important to get this guy to agree with you that you have to do his work for him, given he's not intellectually curious enough to do it for himself?
I'm waiting for a progress bar to go by at work and biometrics and research are areas of interest to me, so the 3 minutes of browsing I did was more to collect links for me to read up on later. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: mijail and deeddawg
I much prefer unlocking via Touch ID on my iPhone as we can do today. Who knows if someone else's heart rhythm/rate happens to match mine?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
Another "super feature" that will probably work sometimes.

TouchID works so well I forget it's even part of the phone. Especially on the 7. Works 99% of the time for me. And the 1% when it doesn't work on the first try, I just put my finger down one more time and it does work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ntombi
TouchID works so well I forget it's even part of the phone. Especially on the 7.

It's working "too well" for me on my 7. I've had a 6 since release and the slight delay was enough that I've been in the habit of clicking the home button and removing my thumb if all I wanted to do was wake the phone and see whatever notifications were on the lock screen.

With the 7 the TouchID is near instant. I'm having to retrain myself to use the actual sleep-wake button if all I want is the lock screen notifications.

Maybe the difference is that I wash my hands regularly and don't eat a bunch of greasy / powder covered crap, keeping my fingers clean.
 
Breaking news: the generation of the Apple Watch might actually be available for purchase.
 
Except it's not.
It's nowhere near as individual as a fingerprint.
And fingerprints don't change moment-to-moment depending on your breathing, activity, and environment.

Yeah, something not adding up here...!
Uh yeah, fingerprints are not unique. They never have been, that's a myth. At least one other person will have the same fingerprint as you, plus your fingerprints change as you age.

Your iris is more unique.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
You don't understand micro palpitations do you? The way your heart operates doesn't change moment-to-moment.

https://www.wired.com/insights/2014/06/heartbeat-may-soon-password/

"
Yury: I didn’t realize that people’s heartbeats are different. Is the heartbeat really a reliable biometric?

D’Souza: Yes, it is! Everybody’s got a unique heartbeat. It’s based on the size and shape of your heart and the orientation of your valves, your physiology. It doesn’t change unless you have a major cardiac event like a heart attack.

Yury: What about when you’re nervous and your heart rate goes up? Will it still work?

D’Souza: Your heart can beat faster but electrically your beats look the same. So, whether it beats faster or slower, it doesn’t really matter. It’s really about the shape of the waves, and what that signal looks like when it comes off your heart.
"
TOTAL BS! You guys need to stop believing everything you read. The existence of a patent doesn't mean that it works. Have you heard about Theranos???
[doublepost=1476378609][/doublepost]
But your heartbeat signature is unique. This isn't about heart rate, it's about the extremely minute differences in how every persons heart beats, it's as identifying as a fingerprint.
BS!!!!
 
TOTAL BS! You guys need to stop believing everything you read. The existence of a patent doesn't mean that it works. Have you heard about Theranos???
[doublepost=1476378609][/doublepost]
BS!!!!
Of course I've heard of the ********* around that snake oil salesman of a company.

Do you have anything to rebut the underlying science regarding signature characteristics of a heart's functioning....or did you just come here to yell "BS"? I'm open to listening to why everyone from Intel to the Defense Department is wrong for continuing to invest money in refining this technology to a useable state, but you seem to think the entire concept is BS.

So how about it, got anything to debunk the scientific basis? I'm all for a discussion, and perhaps your username hints to some type of knowledge in the field, but so far you've just spouted "BS" and that frankly doesn't contribute anything.

Post #32 has several papers on the subject from different sources, care to debunk them?
 
Of course I've heard of the ********* around that snake oil salesman of a company.

Do you have anything to rebut the underlying science regarding signature characteristics of a heart's functioning....or did you just come here to yell "BS"? I'm open to listening to why everyone from Intel to the Defense Department is wrong for continuing to invest money in refining this technology to a useable state, but you seem to think the entire concept is BS.

So how about it, got anything to debunk the scientific basis? I'm all for a discussion, and perhaps your username hints to some type of knowledge in the field, but so far you've just spouted "BS" and that frankly doesn't contribute anything.

Post #32 has several papers on the subject from different sources, care to debunk them?
I have no scientific data to share with you. I just came here to yell... BS!!!!!!!!!!
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.