The Next Generation Apple Watch Could Identify Users by Their Heart Rate

[kdarling]

...quote from an article:

D’Souza: Your heart can beat faster but electrically your beats look the same. So, whether it beats faster or slower, it doesn’t really matter. It’s really about the shape of the waves, and what that signal looks like when it comes off your heart."

• Yes, heart BEATS are ELECTRICALLY the same for a particular person.
• But the blood PULSE as measured at a wrist, is something TOTALLY different.

An EKG sensor is already known to be usable as a biometric id. A pulse and oxygenation sensor normally is not, and that's what's presented here. (Although it mentions deep down that part of the reflection is from skin, which might help with different skin tones.)

What this sensor measures is how you blood vessels expand as a pressure pulse is travelling through your veins when the heart contracts. The blood pressure (and thus the size of the blood vessel) follows a periodic fluctuation not unlike a sine curve. The heart rate is given by only looking at the frequency of that periodic fluctuation. Studying the whole shape of the curve gives you much more information than just looking at the frequency.

Do you mean this in the description:

"... a scatterplot showing light absorption by the first light sensor versus light absorption by the second light sensor over a period of time where the user may be stationary. The light absorption may vary between minimum and maximum values for each wavelength, and the relationship between the absorption of each wavelength may be linear.

"The shape of the scatterplot may be determined by the cyclical perfusion of blood to the skin of the user and also the physical properties of the user's body, such as the configuration of the vasculature at the skin. Accordingly, the shape of such a scatterplot may vary from user to user."

The patent claims only talk about using two light sensors, without mentioning any particular method to determine id beyond a generic looking at "physical characteristics of a vasculature of a user based on the first and second light information". It seems like a very vague patent.

 

[Tycho24]

Wake up, and start thinking for yourself.

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
In the same way that "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" (Samuel Johnson - 1775), "Acting thoughtless oneself, then trying to act like the other person has done so is the last refuge of a desperately paranoid conspiracy theorist" (me - 2016).
So, you'll have to pardon me if I'm NOT taken aback by your insistence that I "wake up" & realize that our flailing, broken, woefully underfunded NASA space program is the home of myriad (completely unrelated to space!) neato science fiction inventions that are secretly used only behind closed doors, and NEVER for commercial profit.
I mean, you DO realize that flies in the face of all evidence and just a basic understanding of how the world works, yeah??!

 

[Tycho24]

So let me ask you this question, as I've yet to figure it out. Genuine question, I'm not trying to troll you.

What actionable information does/would sleep-tracking data provide to you? In what way would you find it useful?

My Garmin FR235 does sleep tracking, as does my wife's fitbit does similar.

We've yet to find any real purpose for the function beyond confirmation that one of us didn't sleep well... which is already readily apparent before our first cups of coffee in the morning.

This is an excellent question!
Sleep is definitely the next frontier of human wellness.
Obviously, we'd all agree that if we could get "better" sleep each night, that would be marvelous.
The best use case I've seen so far of a sleep tracker, has it following your REM patterns, as you phase between shallow & deep sleep throughout the night. It then adjusts your alarm to wake you at the moment of peak "light" sleep, so that you feel more rested. Imagine, if you set your alarm for 7am, but it wakes you at 6:43am instead, because you will feel MUCH more rested if not allowed to drift into your next sleep cycle... you wouldn't begrudge that "lost" 17 minutes of sleep at all, right??
This is the crux of the matter, in my opinion- solving the issue of: "how do we get optimal sleep?".
I sold my 1st Apple Watch because I found in my instance, it was more of a vanity object... but I'm watching that space & if this is done right, I believe it could get me back on board for 3rd gen!

 

[manu chao]

• Yes, heart BEATS are ELECTRICALLY the same for a particular person.
• But the blood PULSE as measured at a wrist, is something TOTALLY different.

An EKG sensor is already known to be usable as a biometric id. A pulse and oxygenation sensor normally is not, and that's what's presented here. (Although it mentions deep down that part of the reflection is from skin, which might help with different skin tones.)



Do you mean this in the description:

"... a scatterplot showing light absorption by the first light sensor versus light absorption by the second light sensor over a period of time where the user may be stationary. The light absorption may vary between minimum and maximum values for each wavelength, and the relationship between the absorption of each wavelength may be linear.

"The shape of the scatterplot may be determined by the cyclical perfusion of blood to the skin of the user and also the physical properties of the user's body, such as the configuration of the vasculature at the skin. Accordingly, the shape of such a scatterplot may vary from user to user."

The patent claims only talk about using two light sensors, without mentioning any particular method to determine id beyond a generic looking at "physical characteristics of a vasculature of a user based on the first and second light information". It seems like a very vague patent.

I have yet to see a patent that isn't vague, even ones in areas where I have considerable technical expertise. But adding the wavelength of the reflected/absorbed light adds another range of parameters that could help to differentiate between different humans.

 

[deeddawg]

adding the wavelength of the reflected/absorbed light adds another range of parameters that could help to differentiate between different humans.

I think the key goal here to remember is the target differentiation isn't that the watch is trying to discern whether the wearer is Fred, Wilma, Barney, Betty, or Pebbles. Instead it's seeking to determine if the wearer is Fred or not-Fred. Just as layman it seems that is potentially an easier nut to crack. At least that's my understanding.

 

[kdarling]

I think the key goal here to remember is the target differentiation isn't that the watch is trying to discern whether the wearer is Fred, Wilma, Barney, Betty, or Pebbles. Instead it's seeking to determine if the wearer is Fred or not-Fred. Just as layman it seems that is potentially an easier nut to crack. At least that's my understanding.

That was my first thought as well, but the patent claims it can be used for "identifying the user of the electronic device based on the one or more physical characteristics of the vasculature".

I have yet to see a patent that isn't vague, even ones in areas where I have considerable technical expertise. But adding the wavelength of the reflected/absorbed light adds another range of parameters that could help to differentiate between different humans.

Different wavelengths is how all pulse/oxygenation sensors work, so that's not new.

What's new is saying that this can be used for biometric id, using a method which the patent claims don't give details on. Since this is something that many have been trying to do with this cheap non-EKG method for decades and have failed to do, the actual method seems pretty important to me.

If Apple noticed a pattern that nobody else has, then that should be part of the claims, instead of the generic way it's put now (see claim at top of this post). It's like getting a patent for a machine that claims to be able to fly by repelling gravity, without explaining how the latter is done

 

[deeddawg]

That was my first thought as well, but the patent claims it can be used for "identifying the user of the electronic device based on the one or more physical characteristics of the vasculature".

It may just be a matter of how we each are interpreting the words, but I think your italicized text still applies to discerning Fred from not-Fred. It of course can also be reasonably interpreted in the wider scenario as well. I just that the latter is likely going to be a bit more difficult.

Edit: I'll add that to date, AFAIK, none of the current or recent Apple portable electronics devices have supported more than one user/profile; only the computers do that. I see no reason they would move away from that paradigm with future watch versions, which I believe lends more credence to a single-user identification scenario than to a multi-user identification scenario.

 

[zhenya]

I still have the new ceramic model on order, but the more I read about this thing' the less I think I'll use it. Can anyone share 'your' real-world distance from the iPhone in which the device will receive calls, etc.?

Normal Bluetooth range, but the AW will automatically connect to any wifi network your phone connects to, and continue to function over wifi. This means for example that I can continue to use the watch as I wander anywhere in my house or on my property, or around my office building.

So let me ask you this question, as I've yet to figure it out. Genuine question, I'm not trying to troll you.

What actionable information does/would sleep-tracking data provide to you? In what way would you find it useful?

My Garmin FR235 does sleep tracking, as does my wife's fitbit does similar.

We've yet to find any real purpose for the function beyond confirmation that one of us didn't sleep well... which is already readily apparent before our first cups of coffee in the morning.

As a serious athlete, sleep tracking provides real value in a couple of ways. One, it makes you accountable. When you aren't tracking it, it's easy to think you are getting 8 hours or whatever you deem necessary when in fact you are probably getting 6-7 hours, which can make a real difference. Two, it allows me to watch trends and correlate those to other cycles I monitor in my training. The 'quality' metric is a bit less obvious, but it's still another data point I can use to make an analysis of how I'm feeling on any given day, and help me to determine the load at which my training should be set at.

 

[iapplelove]

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
In the same way that "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" (Samuel Johnson - 1775), "Acting thoughtless oneself, then trying to act like the other person has done so is the last refuge of a desperately paranoid conspiracy theorist" (me - 2016).
So, you'll have to pardon me if I'm NOT taken aback by your insistence that I "wake up" & realize that our flailing, broken, woefully underfunded NASA space program is the home of myriad (completely unrelated to space!) neato science fiction inventions that are secretly used only behind closed doors, and NEVER for commercial profit.
I mean, you DO realize that flies in the face of all evidence and just a basic understanding of how the world works, yeah??!

Oh you are one of those people.

 

[Tycho24]

Oh you are one of those people.

Lol, yup!
I'm "one of those" that believes facts and things that make sense.
So.... we know from all the iProduct leaks that manufacturers simply CANNOT keep what they're working on secret in this Information Age, no matter what NDAs they sign. I'm wondering then- where are all these super secret medical tech gadgets that budgetless NASA gets their aeronautics engineers to design being built?? Are we to believe they also have super secret factories & manufacturing equipment?? Is it at Area 51??
Funny that they don't want to make $ off these inventions!!!
I guess you're aware of a non- cash driven America that I am not.
Keep up the theorizing champ!!
(it's HIGHLY amusing)

 

[iapplelove]

Lol, yup!
I'm "one of those" that believes facts and things that make sense.
So.... we know from all the iProduct leaks that manufacturers simply CANNOT keep what they're working on secret in this Information Age, no matter what NDAs they sign. I'm wondering then- where are all these super secret medical tech gadgets that budgetless NASA gets their aeronautics engineers to design being built?? Are we to believe they also have super secret factories & manufacturing equipment?? Is it at Area 51??
Funny that they don't want to make $ off these inventions!!!
I guess you're aware of a non- cash driven America that I am not.
Keep up the theorizing champ!!
(it's HIGHLY amusing)

Man you ramble lol. I could teach you so much of you wanted to learn. Don't be soo closed minded.

 

[Tycho24]

Man you ramble lol. I could teach you so much of you wanted to learn. Don't be soo closed minded.

That's certainly a descriptor...
I enjoy being learned enough to have something to say & the ability to express it!

In my opinion it beats:
"Alienz iz for realz!!!!, the guvmint be lying... they have cameras disguised as nose hairs!" & the like any day, but hey- your mileage may vary.

But I'm ALWAYS willing to learn more!!!! Please teach me about the secret space programs and tech that us normal folk will never see.
Ooooooh, do they have true AI yet?? Secret cures for AIDS & cancer?? The ability to clone humans??
I truly MUST know what you know!! It's unfair of you to keep all of your immense knowledge stores to yourself.

/sarcasm <------ in case there was any doubt

 

[iapplelove]

That's certainly a descriptor...
I enjoy being learned enough to have something to say & the ability to express it!

In my opinion it beats:
"Alienz iz for realz!!!!, the guvmint be lying... they have cameras disguised as nose hairs!" & the like any day, but hey- your mileage may vary.

But I'm ALWAYS willing to learn more!!!! Please teach me about the secret space programs and tech that us normal folk will never see.
Ooooooh, do they have true AI yet?? Secret cures for AIDS & cancer?? The ability to clone humans??
I truly MUST know what you know!! It's unfair of you to keep all of your immense knowledge stores to yourself.

/sarcasm <------ in case there was any doubt

Let me know if you ever really want to get into a serious conversation about the issues we face as a human civilization. I can give you my email or pm me. Or I could always point you in the direction of some fascinating books to start off with if you do enjoy reading.

No sarcasm here.

 

[BrodieApple]

I don't have to type in my password. When I have my watch on my wrist the watch unlocks. When it's off my wrist there is a password.

Yeah but when you take it off and put it back on it needs the code

 

[gucciipad]

Yeah but when you take it off and put it back on it needs the code

That's good that's what I want. When it's off my wrist no prying eyes to look st my notifications or iMessage. When it's on my wrist there is no password. Once it's off they need to enter a password

 

[BrodieApple]

That's good that's what I want. When it's off my wrist no prying eyes to look st my notifications or iMessage. When it's on my wrist there is no password. Once it's off they need to enter a password

ik i was explaining it to someone else

 

[nitramluap]

Could you point out where in the patent application they claim to be using the heartbeat / waveform? I've read the thing and haven't spotted it. All I see is mention of using the optics to somehow measure vasculature.

Note before you wind up a pitch... *I* don't think the patent application is talking at all about heartbeat, but something else instead that's not entirely clear.

Whatever it is they're doing, it seems they think there's enough possibility to justify a patent application. Even if it doesn't turn out to be viable in actuality.

Not specifically, but it is how it is being reported and how people are explaining it (even in this article!). The patent refers to the sensors identifying someone by their vasculature (presumably the structure of it) which, I can assure you, is also complete bollocks...

It's nothing more than a thought bubble (as are many patents) but it's not going to see the light of day. The fine network of vessels under your skin varies from year to year. Our bodies are not the static things people think they are...

 

[deeddawg]

Not specifically, but it is how it is being reported and how people are explaining it (even in this article!)

That was the intent of my asking where in the patent application they claim to be using the heartbeat / waveform.

As far as I can tell they don't, and you seem to concur. As such, discussion of that aspect is, IMHO, specious.

It's nothing new for reporters to (unintentionally) misunderstand something and report it incorrectly. Nor is it new for other outlets to pick up on that and continue down that path without revisiting the source material.

Sure, many patent applications fail to see the light of day in terms of real production. Sometimes they exist as a defensive maneouver. That could be this one's intent. Or not.

As for long term year-to-year changes, I don't think they'd matter for this -- I suspect the intent, if it is indeed something being explored for real world production, is short term in its scope. As touchid has effectively eliminated the need to tap out a passcode every time you access your phone, I can imagine Apple would like a means by which Apple Watch users can put on their watch in the morning and be authenticated biometrically.

In any event we may as well be debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. As you note, the patent application lacks specificity. It may or may not see the light of day.

 

[Chris Banks]

Has anyone asked apple to see if their pulse oximeter could be used to detect hypoxemia from respiratory distress caused by covid19? It's been a feature since 2015, but there's been no clear reason between Apple and FDA that it hasn't been released. Does it need to be a 100% accurate tool or can it give a simple go/no-go on your blood oxygen level? I can't think of anything apple could be doing with its technology other than this. I created a change.org petition to ask the questions and get apple and the FDA to reconsider. There are over 33 million of these in the world that could be used today. http://chng.it/TnPR9ZSb

 

[nitramluap]

Has anyone asked apple to see if their pulse oximeter could be used to detect hypoxemia from respiratory distress caused by covid19? It's been a feature since 2015, but there's been no clear reason between Apple and FDA that it hasn't been released. Does it need to be a 100% accurate tool or can it give a simple go/no-go on your blood oxygen level? I can't think of anything apple could be doing with its technology other than this. I created a change.org petition to ask the questions and get apple and the FDA to reconsider. There are over 33 million of these in the world that could be used today. http://chng.it/TnPR9ZSb

Firstly, it has not been a ‘feature since 2015’. They have NEVER had the required hardware for a pulse oximetry, it’s just a plethysmograph for pulse rate - see my previous post. There is nothing to ‘turn on’. It needs a different LED array, specifically the addition of a red LED.

Secondly, by the time your oxygen saturations are that low that an alarm bell will ring, you’ll already know you need a hospital so it’s rather pointless and you will have been quite unwell in the lead up. It’s of more use in sudden saturation drops (ie. Really bad sleep apnoea, loss of ).

I’m an Anaesthesiologist. Just wash your hands and stay away from people if you’re sick. Technology isn’t going to suddenly save you.