The Out-of-Touch Bar is a UI/UX disaster.

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by boodle, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. boodle, Oct 16, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018

    boodle macrumors regular

    boodle

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    #1
    More than two years in and I have yet to find anyone who thinks this is a good idea.
    • Time waster not a time saver; decreases efficiency and removes one-touch access to critical functions like volume and brightness control. Hidden sliders? Really? Look down, locate, touch to expand, locate the slider widget, then move it? Bonkers.
    • Too closed. It wouldn't be so bad if Apple allowed sets that would be activated by a physical key. Example: fn-ctrl brings up my custom set of discrete buttons. Being limited to five global buttons on the right is ridiculous.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the inevitable "keyless keyboard" with pressure sensitivity and haptic feedback but it's got to be "eyes free" as well.
     
  2. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #2
    Oh, it has its fans, though I am not sure for the life of me why. I do agree it is a time waster on par with the widget spinner :)
     
  3. jas5279 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    #3
    Never used a MBP with the touchbar. Controlling brightness (up and down) and volume (up and down) from F1, F2, F10, F11, F12 keys is my daily usage thing. I use these buttons VERY VERY often. So you are telling me if I upgrade to a MBP with touchbar, I will no longer be able to use these until I do this "Look down, locate, touch to expand, locate the slider widget, then move it"? This is going to be quite a problem. Can we not just use the touchbar like the traditional F keys if we have zero interest in using any of the other utilities of the touchbar?
     
  4. boodle, Oct 16, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018

    boodle thread starter macrumors regular

    boodle

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    #4
    • Some customization is available but it's per-app and limited in scope. You could sacrifice some of your globals on the right for access to discrete volume and brightness buttons but you'd still have to look down to find them; exactly what I want to avoid when changing these parameters.
    • There are no physical key triggers for switching modes in Touch Bar outside of the fn key. This makes no sense.
    • BetterTouchTool offers a lot of needed functionality but doesn't solve my biggest gripes.
    • Don't get me started about the lack of a physical esc key.
     
  5. Bending Pixels macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    #5
    I have no problem with the Touch Bar. Learning to use it more each day.
     
  6. poorcody macrumors 6502a

    poorcody

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    #6
    Your gripes are all solved with BetterTouchTool (sans the no-feedback ESC key). Should that functionally be included natively? Yeah, I think so. But nonetheless, it's available, and I find the myriad Touchbar macros we setup and share at our company very productive. There have been numerous threads on this forum describing useful ways it can be utilized.
     
  7. n3t_runn3r macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
  8. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #8
    Better touch tool makes the touch bar better... but the bar is pretty low. It is still a novelty at best imho
     
  9. Naimfan Suspended

    Naimfan

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    #9
    An expensive, un-needed frippery that interferes with many workflows.
     
  10. thepyrate macrumors newbie

    thepyrate

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    #10
    You still do have one touch access to brightness, audio, etc - simply press and hold for half a second, then it becomes a slider. I actually find it vastly more efficient than the buttons ever were. Once I figured that out, any dislike I had for the Touch Bar disappeared. I'm disappointed it didn't find its way onto the iMac Pro Magic Keyboard.
     
  11. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #11
    I'm not a fan of the touchbar, I'm also of the opinion that for most uses, its less efficient. Overall any time you have to take your hand off the keyboard, and eyes off the screen to initiate an action, its less efficient then if you could execute a key combination while still looking at the screen.

    Also, Apple has dropped the ball by not including the TB in other Mac models, or external keyboards. This reduces any possible motivation for developers to embrace the touchbar imo.
     
  12. AppleHaterLover macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    #12
    Biggest problem with the Touch bar is human.

    Since they need to leave the volume up/down and mute buttons so you can easily turn off any questionable content you might be watching in case someone comes, the Touch Bar is really only 1/2 of that display.

    The "function keys" are not function keys anymore, they have at least 7 different purposes (Exposé, brightness etc.). The reason they're good is because of muscle memory - it's no good if they're changing with every app.

    So the Touch bar has a fundamental flaw (stuff is being shuffled around all the time), and only half of it is actually available.
     
  13. poorcody macrumors 6502a

    poorcody

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    #13
    We've recently been wishing the Touchbar was twice as high so we could fit more macros in without using modifier keys! :)

    I am really hoping the imminent Mac announcement includes a Touchbar external keyboard (or monitor). If they don't do it now, then it will appear the Touchbar will be relegated to only the MacBooks (Pros). I'm impressed that developers have embraced it, in that most apps have support for it (credit to Xcode there), despite it being in a minority of Macs. But they need external keyboards to prove its long-term viability.

    As for adjusting volume (or brightness), I swipe across the entire Touchbar with two fingers to adjust the volume. Don't need to look, don't need to press a certain "button", don't need the brightness/volume button to appear in the Touchbar. This is a feature of BTT -- and something Apple should include natively.
     
  14. chabig macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    #14
    You don't even have to hold it for half a second. Just touch and drag.
     
  15. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    #15
    No interest in the touch bar.
    One of those "gee, it looked better on the design board" ideas...
     
  16. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #16
    Looks good at your local Starbucks as well :)
     
  17. AppleHaterLover macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    #17
    So your fellow iPhone-owning socialist hipsters can know you paid $500 more for your laptop than them?
     
  18. Jaekae macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    #18
    it does alot more things than what it replaced so that means the option before was a extreme novelty
     
  19. mdbradigan macrumors regular

    mdbradigan

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Location:
    Nashville, TN area
    #19
    I recently got a 2018 MBP and actually found myself surprised to find the TB somewhat novel. I actually don't hate it like I thought I would. Were it placed above the function keys, I would find it truly excellent. As-is, I mostly just find it kind of "meh". But - that's actually a big step up from the loathing I thought I might have.

    Fwiw - were apple to sell an external keyboard with TB + function keys (I mostly use my laptop in clamshell with externals, likely another reason the TB doesn't make me crazy), I would actually purchase it in a heartbeat. (but I would never buy one with a TB replacing f-row)
     
  20. BorderingOn macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Location:
    BaseCamp Pro
    #20
    What if they had left the function row and added the Touch Bar above or to the sides?
     
  21. fokmik macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #21
    too much...i love to use the flick on volume brightness track etc...also when i had function keys i had to look down to see on what im typing
    ANd for me the aluminium frame and the touchbar is already the "ESC" feedback
     
  22. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #22
    Nothing novel about function keys, unless seeing what’s playing on iTunes is that important :)
     
  23. buran-energia macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    #23
    Where is 500$ from? The base non-TB base vs TB-base? TB already has 256 GB instead of 128, so it's more of a 300$ difference. I'd gladly pay the 300$ difference for the touch bar, touch id, 2 fans instead of 1 (better cooling, less noise, less heat, less throttle), 4 ports vs 2, better cpu and gpu, and a ~33% faster wifi (according to wiki).

    I can also remap "§" to esc if I need a physical esc key. And I kind of like the touch bar. I think even adjusting brightness and volume is better on the touch bar, because you can simply touch and hold, then drag and adjust it by a more precise amount.
     
  24. navaira macrumors 68040

    navaira

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    #24
    Touch Bar Shot 2018-10-17 at 21.44.56.png
    Two-fingers drag: volume up/down
    Three-fingers drag: screen brightness up/down

    I love TB paired with BetterTouchTool.
     
  25. AppleHaterLover macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    #25
    Well...

    Esc, play/pause/next/previous/volume/mute are all existing buttons; time and weather may just as well be on the upper bar. The only newness is the track name...
     

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36 October 16, 2018