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Oh yes, and thermal calibration... yes I ran that, and like most, if not all, calibrations I have done on this particular Quad, it simply produced no screen output. However, it has always seemed to work, and I expect that this is the case this time too.
 
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I’m assuming that you’re always putting the CPUs back to the same locations each time. I can’t think of a good reason there’d be such a big difference in temps except for the some bizarre core choice by the OS.

As for the leak, I wonder if a little bit of Coolant-safe silicone helping those gaskets would work to fill gaps.

When I had mine apart, I was considering lapping the heat sink to be mirror flat, but figured that wouldn’t help but a degree or two.
 
It seems to be common knowledge @Eriamjh1138@DAN that Mac OS X uses CPU B more than CPU A, hence the temperature differential - CPU B is simply doing more work.

Can any of the other readers comment on this?

Nonetheless, difference or not, any temperature in the 40s on either CPU is good by me!
 
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Perhaps, just perhaps, the leak is actually at the pump intake or output hoses/barbs, not the pump itself. If this were the case, the leaking fluid would drip down the side of the pump and appear to be coming from the pump housing. That is my fond hope.

Sure enough, that was exactly what was happening!

I extracted the LCS and examined the pump area carefully. There were dried streaks underneath the intake and output hoses/barbs. This seemed to confirm my suspicion, so I opened up the fill/bleed line and forced some more coolant in (I needed to do this anyway - there has been some loss to the leak). Immediately after forcing more coolant in under pressure, here is what I saw when I looked closely at the pump housing right underneath those hoses/barbs:


LCS Pump Leak.jpg


BOTH lines were leaking! I was able to tighten the clamps on both lines a little more - I have been "gun shy" about tightening them too much, since the barb underneath is plastic. Too much pressure might crack it.

However, with a little more careful tightening, both leaks stopped. I am now taking a few hours to slowly add some more coolant to the loop to replace whatever has been lost (the exact amount needed is pure guesswork - I really have no measure of what was lost).

Next up, I will finish the additional fill, reassemble and then take it straight to Thermal Calibration. After that, I will boot and see how the machine performs. Hopefully, no more leaks and if I am really lucky, perhaps even slightly lower fan revs. We shall see.

When it is all reassembled and back together again, I will report results.
 
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Be very careful handling that unit with the CPU cards attached. Static discharge or damage to the pins will cause issues.
 
Thanks @MisterKeeks. Yes, I was keenly aware of the potential risk. However, the machine worked after reassembly, so that is encouraging. I took it straight into thermal calibration. Like all the thermal calibrations I have done on this box, once it started running, it produced no screen output at all.

I will be able to test later today, booting it back to Sorbet and seeing how it behaves.
 
Well darn, ANOTHER leak in my G5 Quad LCS, also appearing to come from the pump housing. Sheesh! This thing is tough to seal up completely!

I guess I will be taking it apart again to see what other leak sources I can find and fix.

This machine will never be fully stable until all leaks are eliminated.
 
How are you adding coolant to the machine? You’ll be more likely to get leaks if the system is holding pressure.

You can get a new o-ring for the pump. But the fact that you’ve had two cases where the pump has failed is unusual. Are you running the pump at full speed?
 
Agreed, @MisterKeeks, it is most unusual. Well, yes and no, I am running the pump at full speed, but for very short durations only. You may recall that I burned out one pump that way - I learned my lesson!

While filling the loop, I do run the pump outside of the Quad's case, using an external power supply and tying the motor control line of the pump control header to +12v. This does run the pump full speed, but I do it for only 15s to 30s at a time. I have found that connecting the motor control line to +5v simply doesn't turn on the pump at all, so I went to +12v.
 
You can get a new o-ring for the pump. But the fact that you’ve had two cases where the pump has failed is unusual

At this point, I have removed the pump from my "other Quad" (the one with the burnt out pump) and partially disassembled it. It is actually quite easy to remove from the LCS base plate and quite easy to open up. It's O ring was in fine shape, so I am hopeful that the ones for my current Quad will be too.

If I can't find anymore obvious leak points with the pump, I will unscrew it from the LCS base plate and try to get a good look at it without breaking the cooling loop open. If the pump casing is leaking, I can seal that with silicon.

Else, I may have to drain the loop yet again and fully break down the pump... any stone left unturned has something nasty lurking under it! 😃
 
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The only pressure inside the system is caused by the pump itself and the deltaT caused by CPU heat and Pumping friction.

While the CPUs get hot, I don’t think the coolant gets very hot comparatively. Anyone got a IR or contact TC to check?
 
Sure enough, this latest leak was from the pump housing. I found it and sealed it with silicone sealant.

I then retested, and there is still a very small leak from the pump housing, but it only occurs during Thermal Calibration, which really flogs the pump hard. During routine operation, there is no leakage. Remember, I use bright red coolant and I put a clean piece of white paper towel under the LCS when the system is running, so that if anything leaks I will be able to spot it right away. I can therefore say with confidence that it runs leak-free normally, but leaks a small amount during Thermal Calibration.

I have come up with a novel idea for getting more coolant into the loop without opening the loop back up. It is an odd enough idea that I will hold it for now and report it and it's results together, in the next few days - stay tuned!

I tried out said "novel idea" yesterday and it works well. What is it? It is a mechanism for getting rid of those last few air bubble/pockets in the loop, or viewed alternately, adding that last little bit of coolant to the loop.

.... and the idea is ... [drum roll please!] ... using a hypodermic needle/syringe to poke two pin prick holes in the hosing. I then add more coolant via the syringe inserted into the second hole while the air the coolant is displacing is is expelled through the first hole.

2025-04-13.1236, Syringe Used to Inject Last  Bits of Coolant.jpg


These syringes are available on Amazon as a four pack for less than $US 5.00.


2025-04-13.1237, Making the First Hole (Air Exit).jpg


In the photo above, I am using the needle to poke the first hole (the air exit). I then repeated with the second hole (coolant injection) and then used the loaded syringe to pump in the coolant it holds. I then sealed up both holes with silicone sealant, waited one hour and I was ready to go (it sets it in about 30 minutes, so I give it twice as long, just to be sure).

It worked well, but it made zero difference to CPU temperatures and fan speeds, which surprises me. The machine is thermally stable, holding steady in the high 30s on CPU A and the mid 40s on CPU B, but it requires CPU intake and exit fan speeds in the 2900 - 3200 RPM range to hold it at those temperatures... still way too loud for routine use.

The machine is fully stable and runs well in this configuration; it is simply too loud, which has been the problem all along.

I cannot think of anything else I can do to make the loop achieve any more cooling, so I guess that this is my personal "state of the art" for the moment on LCS cooling. To complete this effort, next up is finding really quiet 92mm case fans that can run at full speed in a fairly low noise way. I will then replace the existing Apple CPU intake/exit fans with these new ones, and I *believe* the machine will then be thermally stable and reasonably quiet, which has been the end goal all along.

After two months of solid work on this topic, I have successfully lowered CPU temperatures into a good range, but I have failed to tame the fan revs; they are still far too high and I am fresh out of ideas for bringing them down further. Unless someone reading this has a brilliant idea for achieving further cooling from my new loop, this is the end of the road for liquid cooling for me - it is just too finicky and too difficult to optimize.

This has been a long thread, and if you are thinking of servicing your LCS, don't bother reading the whole thing. Instead, read my A-Z guide to LCS servicing, which you will find at my other related thread here at the MacRumors "PowerPC Mac" section:

Comprehensive Guide to Servicing G5 Quad LCS

This guide is rich in photos and tips for making the work easier. While long itself (55 pages!) it will provide an amply illustrated guide to LCS servicing, from "my Mac is too loud" to "ahh, peace and quiet".

I am now moving on to air cooling for my other Quad, a whole new journey, and undoubtedly, a whole new set of large engineering challenges. Let the fun begin!
 
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There’s an R-134a AC fitting which is used for the factory fill and bleed. While it’s possible that they have have performed a vacuum fill (drawing a vacuum then pumping in coolant with little need to bleed), with the right hoses and tools, that’s what this fitting is for.
IMG_7089.jpeg
 
I don’t either, but it’s basically like any shrader valve. For AC lines, the mate with hoses depresses the valve stem pin opening it.

As for your problem, I don’t think air bubbles are your problem. Unfortunately, I don’t know what could be or that you even really have a problem.

I look forward to the air cooled conversion. I’d straight up trade my quads for a 2.3 dual core air cooled model to avoid the hassle.
 
@Eriamjh1138@DAN, agreed that I do have a fully functional G5 Quad now, but it is just too loud in routine operation to be used... routinely. From my perspective, I definitely still have a problem!

I am hoping that quieter fans will solve this last issue, making the machine fully usable again.

I will keep checking the loop however; if I see an opportunity, I will use my syringe approach to add that little bit more coolant here and there. It can't hurt, and it actually should help.
 
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Well, I never quite get there with the quieter fans... every time I think that is the last step, it isn't. Once again, the leak has put in an appearance, once again from the pump housing. Regrettably, all I am left with is that the O-Ring must be leaking and must be the ultimate source of all of these pump housing issues.

I've done a little more patching with silicone, but I have no real expectation that this will fix the leak. I am done with this liquid cooling stuff, so I am not going to hunt down and buy a new O-ring. I've spent more than enough time and money on liquid cooling at this point!

It is time to move on to the next act of this play - air cooling. I may end up back here if that turns into a dead end, but for now, it looks a lot more promising than continuing to hunt down and kill the inevitable next leak ... over and over.
 
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A question for the experts here: the Power Mac G5 Quad Mac OS X fan/temperature control software is trying to maintain some target temperature on each of the CPUs. Does anyone know WHERE that temperature value is set? Is it in a file that can be edited? I would like to experiment with changing that value and observing the effects on the fan speeds. Thanks!
 
I would like to repeat my question above:

The Power Mac G5 Quad Mac OS X fan/temperature control software is trying to maintain some target temperature on each of the CPUs. Does anyone know WHERE that temperature value is set? Is it in a file that can be edited?

Right now, my LCS-equipped Quad has CPU A running in the high 30s and CPU B running in the mid to high 40s. These are good values, and yet Mac OS X continues to crank up the fans, slowly but inexorably. I would to change the target Mac OS X is trying to cool to - the current CPU temp values are just fine.

The machine seems to be idling at about 2400 RPM on the CPU intake and exit fans, but the RPMs keep creeping upwards.

Any and all insights most appreciated!
 
Arghhh... new day, new leak! :mad: The pump housing is finally leak free. This time it is one of previously sealed outputs of the radiator that has started to leak! Will this never-ending series of leaks ever end???

I will add another clamp to the leaking line and see if that helps. Another clamp is needed because the clamp there presently cannot be accessed for tightening without removing the LCS. I hope to work around that by placing another clamp on the line. Several of the lines already sport two clamps, so this is just one more of the same.
 
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New day, new clamp, system is now running leak free. CPU A running in the high 30s, CPU B running in the mid to high 40s, CPU intake and exit fans running full tilt! Apparently running the fans full tilt is what is needed to maintain these very good CPU temperatures. From this, I can conclude that there is still much room for improvement in my cooling loop - I just cannot say what those improvements might be. The one I have now is the best one I know how to design/build.

As long as the system remains leak free, I can now - finally - address the fan noise issue by replacing the stock Apple fans with current state-of-the-art really quiet ones.
 
The Power Mac G5 Quad Mac OS X fan/temperature control software is trying to maintain some target temperature on each of the CPUs. Does anyone know WHERE that temperature value is set? Is it in a file that can be edited?

Further web research has indicated that the combination of AppleFans.kext and AppleThermal.kext implement the full temperature/fan-speed fan control functionality.

There are some adjustable values in AppleFans.kext (in the info.plist file), but I have not been able to decode what the values mean, and my ham-fisted "move fast and break things" attempt at adjusting them produced no noticeable change in fan speed behavior.

AppleThermal.kext is a lot more opaque. There do not appear to be any adjustable values in AppleThermal's info.plist file, and the only other file I can see being involved is the actual kext code file itself, and that is ... well ... compiled code. It is NOT easily understood or adjusted.

I have read that in the world of Hackintoshes, changes to AppleThermal.kext not only have been made, but have to be made, in order to accommodate the different hardware environment. Does anyone have any insight into this?
 
Since the system continues to run leak free, I decided to stress it with Thermal Calibration, which whacks the fans and the pump hard - it turns everything up to its highest setting.

I am pleased to report that while Thermal Calibration produced no output, as usual, it had an impact. The Quad now idles in the 2000 - 2100 RPM range, which is quite acceptable from an audible perspective. CPU A runs in the high 30s, CPU B runs in the high 40s.

As the final act in this play, I am planning to replace the stock Apple CPU fans with uber-quiet ones AND run them through the manual fan speed control piece that I found while working on Air Cooling a Quad:

Manual Fan Speed Control.jpg


I will power this beast directly from a MOLEX, sourced from the DVD/CD drive area, and run all four stock CPU intake and exit fans through this device instead of Apple's fan headers and thermal control software. The result SHOULD be fans whose speed I can manually control, and at the same time, uber-quiet fans. A cool, quiet Quad... the objective all along!
 
Have you tested the performance of the cooling system under heavy, sustained CPU load? That would be an important indicator of whether it’s functioning properly. The fact that high fan speeds are necessary to maintain good idle temperatures suggests a problem.
 
Agreed @MisterKeeks, there is still a problem. The cooling loop is definitely less than optimal, but the Quad is now thermally stable and fully operational. Heavy, sustained load on all four CPUs would likely thermal stop the machine for sure, but for now I am OK with that. It runs, its stable and it's reasonably quiet... for now, that is good enough for me!
 
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