The Sony PlayStation 5 (PS5)

Discussion in 'Console Games' started by gkarris, May 20, 2017.

  1. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #1
    With E3 around the corner, the "buzz" has started.

    This guy seems to have the right thoughts....



    Post all news/thoughts here...

    (please be nice... ;) )
     
  2. Relentless Power macrumors Core

    Relentless Power

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    #2
    With the Pro being released since November 2016, my thoughts are the PS5 will be launching somewhere near late 2018 early/2019. I don't forsee the PS5 launching any sooner than that.

    However, looking forward to E3.
     
  3. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #3
    IMHO - Sony will definitely announce something, right after the MS Scorpio Reveal.

    Sony did the same thing with the PS2 announcement (which didn't release until a year and a half after) at the Dreamcast Launch(see 4:09):


    --- Post Merged, May 21, 2017 ---
    Here's another interesting article - this one is already talking about PSVR2 and the PS5 being 8K compatible :eek:

    http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps5-release-date-news-and-features-1213409
     
  4. Relentless Power macrumors Core

    Relentless Power

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    #4

    I'm still doubtful. I don't see an announcement coming this soon, especially at the E3 conference. I know the Scorpio will be demoing/debuting, but I don't think Sony is going to fall on their timeline because of this. Especially considering the PS4 Pro just launched in November 2016.

    I'm still thinking late 2018/early 2019. But We will find out shortly.
     
  5. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #5
    I think it will depend heavily on the Scorpio launch price.

    IMHO:

    If MS launches Scorpio at $399, Sony will announce the existence of the PS5 and drop the price of the Pro to $349 and the Slim 1TB core to $249 at the Scorpio launch.

    If MS launches the Scorpio of $449-$500, Sony won't have to do anything (won't drop prices or bother announcing anything).

    I am looking forward to more VR stuff from everyone...
     
  6. the8thark macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #6
    The PS2 is s PS Pro. The PS3 is a PS2 Pro, erc etc. The PS5 unless it's radically changed will be a PS4 Pro Pro. Just a better looking sit on the couch with a controller in your hand looking at the TV screen experience. Every one of the 4x Play Stations so far have been exactly the same in this regard. Just each one plays better looking and more immersive games. The user control experience is the same. (Excluding VR as that's totally different).

    So we need a PS5 - cough cough a PS4 Pro Pro (in reality) right now? No.

    In a few years when the tech imprives then sure release it. But not now.
     
  7. JohnGrey macrumors 6502

    JohnGrey

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    #7
    We've done this song and dance before; it's the same control experience because it works and because it's favoured by the 99% of gamers that aren't obsessed with control gimmich fetishism.

    I hate playing FPS games on console because I can't snap the reticle with one precise movement like I can in PC gaming, and I dearly wish that game devs included KBM support for console games by default but that's a feature that would appeal to a tiny portion of console gamers and I accept that it's not cost effective. If one doesn't like it, one can go elsewhere or one can deal with it. The fact that the 'boring' couch experience continues to sell successfully, despite being more expensive than alternative experiences, means that that paradigm works. It worked with the 2600 and it works with what, if anything, will come out next year.
     
  8. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #8
    I was going to start another thread on the topic, but we can easily use this one...

    Games are becoming more "immersive" and, now, GRAPHICS DO MATTER...

    Yes, back in the day (here I go again), when all you had to work with was an Atari 2600/Mattel Intellivison graphics, devs tried and tried to get the gameplay to be great and innovative despite primitive graphics.

    Now, you can get both great gameplay and have the visuals be an integral part of it.

    Come on - which would you rather play at this point?

    The Empire Strikes Back, Atari 2600
    [​IMG]

    Or Star Wars Battlefront (PC, XBox One, PS4)?
    [​IMG]

    Not to mention Multiplayer over the Internet as well as download of expansions, etc.

    Now we are adding VR and Augmented Reality to the mix.

    These next gen consoles will add those features.

    I find myself playing less and less of my old consoles and games (don't even touch the original Halo and Halo 2 anymore).

    Some games do hold up well in today's time (Rogue Squadron for GameCube still looks and plays good). Though I wish many of these games would undergo the same updates that certain games are getting today.
     
  9. Relentless Power macrumors Core

    Relentless Power

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    #9
    I predict the Scorpio will have a starting price at minimum of $450 – $500.00. Perhaps Sony will lower the Price of the Pro, but I doubt any announcements for a PS5. I still Late 2017/2019.
     
  10. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #10
    I do wonder. PSVR needs a power boost and I don't think the PS4 Pro is capable enough. I believe there will be a new console soon, I believe they're going to follow MS and release a fully backwards compatible (with PS4 games) power console in the next couple of years. It has to happen.
    --- Post Merged, May 23, 2017 ---
    Heh, actually I'd rather play the Jedi Knight series. Incredible atmosphere in those games.

    But I do think we're at a point now where we have photo realistic games. The next big thing is just HDR TV's, higher resolutions, VR support (so rendering two viewpoints).

    What I'd like to see is CPU improvements. So like, in GTA the NPCs are smarter, further render distances, buildings have full insides that you can explore, huge hordes of zombies, etc.
     
  11. the8thark macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #11
    We have done this song and dance over and over I agree. The simple answer is it's very polarising. Some people love more of the same (Playstation) and some love new and different control schemes (Nintendo).

    There is nothing wrong with wanting new and innovative ways to play your console games. It's not an obsession or something bad as you claim it is. This is exactly why the PS4 and Switch are both selling well. To cater for both crowds. Neither is right or wrong. Just different things to cater for different tastes. People should not criticise others for liking different control schemes.

    Also your 99% number I am calling out as totally false - unless you have stastical evidence to prove it.

    It's not more expensive. I paid quite a bit less for the PS4 slim I bought last week, then I did for the Nintendo Switch I bought on launch day. Also the PS4 selling well does not mean new innovative controller experiences are not wanted by the public. It just means the crowd who want more of the same are happy with it.

    The Nintendo Switch selling well proves that if a new console with new innovative controls is done well it will sell well. It's not one or the other. Both can sell well and have their fans.

    The horse and cart worked well for centuries before the automobile was invented but once people realised how much better the automobile was, few people went back to the horse and cart. It's the same with the traditional control scheme. Even Sony is realising it's days are numbered. That's exactly Sony is pushing VR. The future of Sony is VR, it's not the traditional control scheme. The tech is just not here yet to have good quality VR that is really affordable.

    Sony as the Dual Shock.
    Nintendo has the Pro Controller.
    But
    Sony has VR.
    Nintendo have the Joycon, touch screen and portability option.

    Both Sony and Nintendo are giving their customers the choice of different control options. For the obvious reason that there is a market out there for it.
     
  12. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #12
    Here's a good video that talks about these "mid console upgrades" and why they are more like PC's - makes a whole lot of sense...


    --- Post Merged, May 23, 2017 ---
    Nintendo at this point is "in a class all its own". I like that it doesn't have to compete with Sony or MS and glad their latest console is a success.

    I would imagine most people buying a Switch already have a Playstation 3/4 or XBox 360/One....

    (especially previous gen consoles - they're so on the cheap right now for a used one with a ton of used games reasonably priced).
     
  13. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #13
    The PS5 just seems kind of silly, unless you start seeing some PS4 Pro/PS5 cross pollination in the gaming market.
     
  14. the8thark, May 23, 2017
    Last edited: May 23, 2017

    the8thark macrumors 68040

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    #14
    This is quite true or you have the people on the reverse side. That own a Switch and are looking intot he PS4 slim for a budget way to get the PS4 exclusives. I am one of these people who bought a Switch on day 1 but only last week bought a PS4 slim.

    I agree Sony and Nintendo are in competition but not directly. Even the types of games released on both consoles are quite different. You'd lever see something like Destiny 2 on the Switch. But also you'll never see a good kart racing game or good modern collectathon exclusive to the PS4. Both Sony and Nintendo realise this and target their audiences appropriately.

    I agree. The PS4 is in a class of it's own too. The XB1 is direct competition to the PS4 but it's really dropped the ball so much. As hardware sure the XB1 is good but the XB1 exclusive games are just not that good. There is little exclusive to the XB1 worth talking about. All the good games on the XB1, you can also get on the PS4 and/or Switch. Sure the Scorpio might be a tech marvel, but without the good games, people will stick with whatever PS4 and Switch they already own.

    There is legit scope to own a PS4 and Switch and enjoy both for totally different reasons. I am a long time Nintendo fan but I bought a PS4 slim (first PS for me) because I like enough of the PS4 exclusive games to make the console cost of admission to be worth it. It's totally the PS4 exclusive games, not the hardware that got me to enter the PS4 world. Nintendo totally knows this, that must have games is what drives console sales. Whatever makes the games must have, be it great control methods or fun story or whatever, must have games drive console sales. Sony is slowly realising this now too. That's why their recent events have been all game focused. Sure the Sony events are boring as, nowhere near as interesting as a Nintendo direct, but the games people want to play of the PS4 are there and for the time being that's enough.

    I agree with the video for the most part. It's like buying a new PC for slightly better graphics for games you already own or will own soon. Some people will be into it. Others will not care and just be happy to play the games.
    --- Post Merged, May 23, 2017 ---
    If the PS5 is not radically different than the PS4, why even bother? A PS4 Pro Pro (PS5 by another name) won't really help much and will be a step backeards if there's no PS4 backwards compatibly.

    The questions here are:

    What does the PS4 Pro do that the PS4 Slim can't?
    Nothing. The PS4 Pro only does it better (more pixels, less load times etc etc).

    What will the PS5 do that the PS4 Pro can't?
    If the answer is the same as above, as in nothing, just only does what the PS4 Pro does only better, then I don't see the point of releasing a PS5 anytime soon. The PS2 -> PS3 and PS3 -> PS4 really is just more of the same but there was enough gap between each so the technology inproved to create visuals that were impossible of the previous generation console. This is not the case with the PS4 Pro -> PS5. The PS4 Pro is already getting close to 4K (It's not true 4K though). The only thing that the PS5 could possibly do is be better for VR. However the tech to really improve VR does not exist yet so that makes the case for the PS5 existing any time soon very weak indeed.

    This whole Slim and Pro reminds me of the Macbook Air and the Macbook Pro. Both do the same basic things in general, just the MBP does it all a lot better.
    --- Post Merged, May 23, 2017 ---
    I'll take the Atari game thanks.

    Yes they do but not at the expense of everything else. A really pretty game like Horizon Zero Dawn is more of a graphical tech demo than it is a fully immersive game. Sure these kind of tech demos are good as they really show off the amazing advances in graphical technology. But this alone does not make them great games.
     
  15. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #15
    I try not to get caught up in the rumors of PS5 or what have you, though I do think Sony needs to keep on their toes and announce something in E3
     
  16. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #16
    I ended up getting a PSVR and loving it, now wishing I should've gotten a PS4 Pro instead of a PS4 Slim (I got one again to play exclusives since I sold my launch PS4 when it was still worth $200 at GS).

    The PS4 Pro can play VR games better - you can't really tell on YouTube as you are capturing the output from the processing box, but with the VR headset on, yes there are some jaggies (since the screen is only inches from your eyes).

    So, the PS5 and the rumored PSVR2 will use the hardware to the fullest, but games will be programmed to take advantage of the processing power.

    I did get the PSVR mainly because games are out only for that, plus I can hook it up to my PC (just gotta wait until more PC games support OSVR - "open source" VR).
     
  17. JohnGrey macrumors 6502

    JohnGrey

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    #17
    And yet you had no compunction at all scoffing at the idea of whatever the PS5, or whatever it will be called, will be. Not because you don't like the Sony brand or its policies as a company, not because you don't like its online services or unique game franchises, but because it has a control scheme that you don't like. Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and, again, you're in the minority on consoles and in gaming in general

    :rolleyes: Oh, do forgive me. The next time I use hyperbole I will be sure to highlight it in a nice bright colour so that you aren't confused.

    You're really going to argue this? Of course you paid less for a PS4 slim a week ago, it's 3.5 years since the console was initially released, and you only got it under the cost of the Switch because you got credit for that second controller. As for your second contention, the PS4 selling well over the course of the course of many years isn't evidence that it's the preferred scheme but the Switch selling well in its launch month and having decent sales in the following month, is evidence that 'new experiences' are what's wanted? I see.

    Despite the trumpeting of various gaming sites, the Switch hasn't sold well. Did it sell out its initial allotments? Of course. Has it had fairly robust forward movement? Of course, it has: there were at least nine million rabid Nintendo fans waiting for the next console. That's said I've already seen some weakness in the Japanese weekly sales, usually halving the previous week for the past month, in a market that ought to be the absolute bread and butter for the console if it's such a powerhouse 'mobile' experience; in point of fact I only went looking because the pillocks at Nintendo Life stoppped trumpeting the Gematsu sales figures every week and was curious as to why. Upon bothering to look myself, that became apparent. The fact is that we haven't even come close to the what the generational translation ought to be for the console and if the sales that I'm seeing continue to stall it'll be quite a while before that happens and how much it materially exceeds that translation is still a huge question mark with loads of downside pressure.

    Rubbish. Absolute bloody rubbish from front to back. The cart-and-horse versus automobile fallacy is an absurd syllogism, in that the success of the automobile was predicated on three factors: cheapness of fuel, reliability and efficiency. A horse requires food, even if it just sits in a paddock. If it breaks a leg or dies from a septic abscess, you can't get a replacement part and rebuild it. A horse will cooperate to a degree when being put to work but only to that degree; an automobile will cooperate even if you run it into the brick wall that will destroy it. It can travel further, faster and more effectively than its equine counterpart. That is why it replaced the horse and cart.

    There is nothing efficient about video games, and VR is less efficient still. It's a costly endeavour, cumbersome to wear and use and it has nothing in the way of actual titles beyond what amounts to branded tech demos and theme-park rides. VR is a joke and the sales numbers reflect. Is PSVR the best-selling VR experience? Sure, but that's like saying it's the herpes medication that stops the most outbreaks. It functions for what it does but you're still left with having herpes which is something that no one particularly wants. VR, in those terms, is an itch you want dealt with; don't presume that just because you have that itch that many, let alone most do, because you're in the absurd minority. It represents less than 2% of the PlayStation 4 install base and sold less than half of its pre-launch projections.

    Depending on your revenue tolerances and BEA, anything is a market. Just because a niche product is successful with a niche market does not mean that that product suddenly has comparative attractiveness to the general product.
     
  18. BenTrovato macrumors 68020

    BenTrovato

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    #18
    I think the days of the $499 console might be coming to an end. I can see Sony and MS launching a 599 or dare I say 699 at launch?

    The console strategy needs work IMO. Coming out with a PS4 Pro now a PS5 which in consumers minds means PS5 Pro is right around the corner, what do you buy? And why? If I knew a PS4 Pro was going to be coming I probably would have waited and stuck to PC gaming for a bit longer. When the PS5 comes out, unless it cleans my floors too I will probably wait for the PS5 Pro.
     
  19. hawkeye_a, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017

    hawkeye_a macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Historically and strategically speaking, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony announces something with regard to the PS5 soon after Scorpio's release&price is announced.

    They're both on the PC platform now, so more frequent upgrades are easier than they were before (the downside being consumer fatigue and fragmentation(sortof)).

    However, at this point, I wonder if a leap in processing power and visual fidelity will generate as much interest as it has in the past.
     
  20. the8thark macrumors 68040

    the8thark

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    #20
    That's not true. I don't hate the PS4's control scheme. I have bought the pro controller for the WiiU and now the Switch because that method control does indeed work for certain games well. My point was variety is good. Both Sony and Nintendo are exploring other control methods. Without such experimentation and risk taking the industry as a whole can not improve.

    Yes please do then we will know when you are trying to pass off hyperbole as fact.

    Even without the controller trade it, the price was $349. Much less than the over $400 I paid for the Switch. The controller trade it meant I got it less than the $349.
    You are misunderstanding my second point totally. My point was just because the PS4 is selling well, does not mean that no one wants new innovative control schemes also. Both are selling well, which is proving that there is a market for both. The Wii also sold well and it has non standard controls as well. The market exists for both. Bowever it is good to have innovation and risk taking in this area so the controls don't stagnant and they can improve. Just like in any area.

    Selling well is all dependant on what each of us classify as selling well. Quite subjective. In a business sense it would be making certain amounts of revenue and profit. You're hatred of NintendoLife does not change the facts. The Nintendo Switch has sold well. Better than the WiiU. Also the sales now are slowing because everyone who wants a console now has one. That's rather Captain Obvious. You need to wait till the end of year 1 and look back at the sales data then. Also look at the sales around year 1's big games. Are the big games really driving console sales as they should be? At the end of year 1 we will know this.

    "It can travel further, faster and more effectively than its equine counterpart."
    This is exactly my point and is exactly why you actually agree with me, though you can't see it. VR can provide a more immersive gaming experience for the customer and do it more effectively (in a game immersion sense) than a television and a standard controller will.

    When the first automobile was released most people didn't rush out to buy it, but over the decades they became more and more popular. Will this happen to VR? No one will know, but by say 2030 or 2050 we shall know.

    Most businesses will not mass market a product if there is not at least some chance to generate a profit from it. Sure the VR is niche now but Sony is hoping that in the next 20-30 years it will break into the mainstream. All products ahve to start somewhere.

    I think you might be right. Even Nintendo, the home of affodable consoles, released the Switch at a price nowhere near as affordable as previous Nintendo consoles. Outside the US and Japan the Switch was quite expensive.
    You also need to remember that $599US in the US translates to a prices of like $750US outside the US. That's getting into the price range of iPhones (paid upfront and not on contract). It will be much harder to justify that kind of purchase unless there is a lot of great games to play.

    The higher the console price is, the better the games need to be to justify paying that higher console price. This is not so good as it means those launch games will have to be even better. Thus cost a lot more money to develop those games and will requite a lot more sales to make a profit. This might scare away the smaller developers who don't have those multimillion budgets for these kind of console selling games when the console price is north of $500US. Video game consoles really need to stay in an affordable range to get the sales they need to survive.
    --- Post Merged, May 25, 2017 ---
    That's totally true and probably the big draw for getting a PS4 Pro.

    The PSVR2 is a scary thought though. It has to come but at the initial cost of the PS4 Pro and PSVR2, I just hope Sony don't make their initial adopters of VR feel cheated by releasing updates too often to make their older VR hardware obselete without the customers getting a godo use of of it.
     
  21. boy-better-know macrumors 65816

    boy-better-know

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    #21
    Definitely do not think the next PS will be announced/spoken about in any capacity at E3 this year. Sony is literally riding the crest of a huge wave right now, no need to mention anything at all.

    Another point, Sony don't announce hardware at E3 anymore, wasn't the PS3 the last time?
     
  22. Relentless Power macrumors Core

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    #22
    I agree. Sony is it going to be making any hardware announcements during E3 and they don't need to. With the debut of the PS4 Prosux months ago, I would estimate the earliest we will see any rumors indicating for the PS5 not until late 2017/early 2018. If anything, Sony will capitalize on any major titles that will launch later this year and partner up how they will be advantage with the PS4 Pro.

    Regardless, the stage belongs to Microsoft and the Scorpio, which Sony will likely measure up to see what this console has the potential to do.
     
  23. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #23
    I'm starting to think that Sony's answer to the MS Scorpio will be MAJOR price drops:

    http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...ion-4-Microsoft-Xbox-One-PS4-price-drop-sales

    GS already has dropped the trade-in prices of the PS4 and PS4 Pro's big time.

    Sony's matching current XBox One S prices ($250 to start), MS may answer by furthering dropping the price of the XBox One S ($199 for a core 500Gig?).

    But this may be Sony's way of grabbing people's money now to keep them from buying a Scorpio and holding out until the PS5...

    Sony may "sweeten the pot" by dropping the price of the PSVR (also hope that it will be compatible with PS5 for those of us that made the big investment already).
     
  24. z970mp macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    You just introduced me to a really cool channel.

    Thank you very much.
     
  25. gkarris thread starter macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #25

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