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The 'There is no 5.5" iPhone 6' thread
- Thread starter Agent OrangeZ
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I initially thought the same thing but then I thought about their release of the iPad 3 and iPad 4. I stupidly bought the iPad 3 only to have a better-spec iPad 4 come out half a year later. I was very upset about that. Apple broke their standard release cycle and threw another "better" model out half-way through the cycle. So, it's not beyond Apple to disrupt their own status quo.
That's illogical thinking.
iPad 3 released q1 2012.
iPad 4 released q4 2012
Apple also discontinued the iPad 3 at release of iPad 4.
Apple isn't going to announce iPhone 4.7 inch September and than announce iPhone 5.5 7 months later and discontinue iPhone 4.7.
They aren't going to announce two iPhones next months either.
iPhone is their cash cow.
I'm wondering if Apple has looked at the phone and 'phablet' markets and seen that offering a phablet isn't going to hurt phone sales. Personally, I'll never have interest in a 5.5" phone, and yet we see people in this thread saying they will wait as long as it takes to get an iPhone that size. So for people who want the new iPhone but still want a smaller phone, there's the 4.7". For people who want the new iPhone and want the phablet size, there's the 5.5".
Offering more options will likely expand the total number of new iPhones purchased, even if the number of 4.7" phones might be less than if that was the only model offered. I think we'll see a 5.5" phone with sapphire glass launching in October or November. As an aside, I have no dog in this race, as I'm planning on going from a 4S to a 5S next month.
Offering more options will likely expand the total number of new iPhones purchased, even if the number of 4.7" phones might be less than if that was the only model offered. I think we'll see a 5.5" phone with sapphire glass launching in October or November. As an aside, I have no dog in this race, as I'm planning on going from a 4S to a 5S next month.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Cannibalize in this context usually implies hurting revenues from the launch of a new product. If Apple releases 2 new models and either takes sales that might have gone to the other, ALL of that money still flows to Apple. There is no special bonus earned by concentrating sales to a single screen size.
There is risk of leaving the bigger screen market to Android competitors rather than just taking all of the bigger screen market now. People who will find the 4.7" too small will buy the competition unless Apple gives them a desirable alternative. As I see it, 4.7" sops up those wanting a phone bigger than 4" and less than about 5". 5.5" will sop up those wanting a phone bigger than about 5" and less than about 6".
Apple is not a little struggling company underfunded or understaffed to be able to manage having more than one product size in a line (see MacBooks, iMacs, iPads, etc). They can do it. They want the sales. Why leave those sales of those who can't be happy at 4.7" to the likes of Samsung and similar for another year? They should get the money.
i'm less concerned whether the 5.5 exists as i am whether it would get better internals. I'd be perfectly happy staying with my 4S if the hardware wasn't slowly falling out of step, performance wise. If they reserved substantially better hardware for the 5.5, it'd suck because i'd be stuck between a phone size i don't want, and a phone that would be obsoleted sooner.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OP: you've done a great job of identifying your desired end result and then piling up as much support as you can for that result, while ignoring or putting down anything counter to that result.
If someone was equally passionate about the 5.5" they might make a thread spinning how there is no 4.7" iPhone 6 and pile up a bunch of implied "evidence" that all the 4.7" bits is a "doubled down" red herring strategy.
Or maybe how since Apple has publicly put down screens bigger than 3.5" and then 4" as too big for one-handed use, neither a 4.7" or a 5.5" is coming and the iPhone 6 will be another 4" screen.
Piling up a lot of details that supports a pre-determined (desired) outcome doesn't make it true. Do some searches for Paul is Dead to see enormous amounts of proof that Beatle Paul died in 1966. You'll find much more, even seemingly-hard evidence that he did die but that doesn't make it true.
I look at this strictly from a business perspective. We know from the Samsung trial information that Apple believes it's more coveted market wants screens bigger than 4". Apple verified their belief in court documents.
We know that the Android manufacturers have done well with this screen-size differentiator. We can't imagine that people are buying those phones for the Android OS and the subsidized pricing is not differentiated enough to make price a huge driver of those sales. What's left? Most tangibly, bigger screens are wooing people to those phones.
Apple could roll out a single bigger screen at either size to formally counter the draw of bigger screens. But if we suppose that to be this rumored 4.7", they'll leave the business of those wanting bigger than about 5" to their competition. Why do that? Why leave that money for dreaded competitors when they don't have to do so?
Because tradition would say that Apple will roll out only 1 new phone model each year? No, the last iPhone rollout was 2 new iPhone models: 5s and 5c.
Because we see some pattern that there can be only 1 new phone model each year? No, the last iPhone rollout was 2 new iPhone models.
Because managing more than one screen size may be too much for Apple? See MacBooks, iMacs, iPads, etc. Apple is not a little, struggling company anymore. They are HUGE now. I think they could manage more than 2 screen sizes for iPhones, much like they manage multiple screen sizes for just about everything else they make.
Because there's no demand for a 5.5"? No, every one of these threads- including yours- gets posts by people who want the 5.5" instead of the 4.7". While I am just one person, I am ONLY interested in a 5.5" myself
Because of the "hold back" conspiracy theory- that Apple should hold back a 5.5" to be next year's "upgrade"? If you go by the sentiment of every iPhone 6 thread, it seems the bulk of the crowd favors 4.7" over 5.5". Why "hold back" the less desirable size? How could the less desirable size motivate the masses to see it as an "upgrade"?
To the point of not seeing parts leaks, etc, Apple rolled out the Mac Pro in what seemed to be a total surprise to everyone. Personally, I would consider that a far more radical product design evolution than Apple rolling out a second new model phone with a .8" bigger screen. Yet, there were virtually no rumors much ahead of that launch. How could such a radical new design be kept secret from the rumor machine? Why couldn't Apple do it again with another product?
Lastly, in the past when a wrong rumor has gotten it's legs under it such that the masses were increasingly believing in the likelihood of it becoming reality, the reputable leak machinery has curtailed such expectations. Typically, this would be a Dalrymple "Nope" to put something like this to bed. Now we're apparently within 30 or so days of a public announcement or launch and there's been no "Nope" yet. Large numbers of people have expectations for both sizes. Why let that potential mass disappointment build up so high and so close to the announcement date? Why not leak a "Nope" to kill the 5.5" rumor well before now? Apple is good at PR. I don't think they would let this rumor branch build so large and last so long only to disappoint a big slice of the market in the last few weeks or at the launch itself.
If someone was equally passionate about the 5.5" they might make a thread spinning how there is no 4.7" iPhone 6 and pile up a bunch of implied "evidence" that all the 4.7" bits is a "doubled down" red herring strategy.
Or maybe how since Apple has publicly put down screens bigger than 3.5" and then 4" as too big for one-handed use, neither a 4.7" or a 5.5" is coming and the iPhone 6 will be another 4" screen.
Piling up a lot of details that supports a pre-determined (desired) outcome doesn't make it true. Do some searches for Paul is Dead to see enormous amounts of proof that Beatle Paul died in 1966. You'll find much more, even seemingly-hard evidence that he did die but that doesn't make it true.
I look at this strictly from a business perspective. We know from the Samsung trial information that Apple believes it's more coveted market wants screens bigger than 4". Apple verified their belief in court documents.
We know that the Android manufacturers have done well with this screen-size differentiator. We can't imagine that people are buying those phones for the Android OS and the subsidized pricing is not differentiated enough to make price a huge driver of those sales. What's left? Most tangibly, bigger screens are wooing people to those phones.
Apple could roll out a single bigger screen at either size to formally counter the draw of bigger screens. But if we suppose that to be this rumored 4.7", they'll leave the business of those wanting bigger than about 5" to their competition. Why do that? Why leave that money for dreaded competitors when they don't have to do so?
Because tradition would say that Apple will roll out only 1 new phone model each year? No, the last iPhone rollout was 2 new iPhone models: 5s and 5c.
Because we see some pattern that there can be only 1 new phone model each year? No, the last iPhone rollout was 2 new iPhone models.
Because managing more than one screen size may be too much for Apple? See MacBooks, iMacs, iPads, etc. Apple is not a little, struggling company anymore. They are HUGE now. I think they could manage more than 2 screen sizes for iPhones, much like they manage multiple screen sizes for just about everything else they make.
Because there's no demand for a 5.5"? No, every one of these threads- including yours- gets posts by people who want the 5.5" instead of the 4.7". While I am just one person, I am ONLY interested in a 5.5" myself
Because of the "hold back" conspiracy theory- that Apple should hold back a 5.5" to be next year's "upgrade"? If you go by the sentiment of every iPhone 6 thread, it seems the bulk of the crowd favors 4.7" over 5.5". Why "hold back" the less desirable size? How could the less desirable size motivate the masses to see it as an "upgrade"?
To the point of not seeing parts leaks, etc, Apple rolled out the Mac Pro in what seemed to be a total surprise to everyone. Personally, I would consider that a far more radical product design evolution than Apple rolling out a second new model phone with a .8" bigger screen. Yet, there were virtually no rumors much ahead of that launch. How could such a radical new design be kept secret from the rumor machine? Why couldn't Apple do it again with another product?
Lastly, in the past when a wrong rumor has gotten it's legs under it such that the masses were increasingly believing in the likelihood of it becoming reality, the reputable leak machinery has curtailed such expectations. Typically, this would be a Dalrymple "Nope" to put something like this to bed. Now we're apparently within 30 or so days of a public announcement or launch and there's been no "Nope" yet. Large numbers of people have expectations for both sizes. Why let that potential mass disappointment build up so high and so close to the announcement date? Why not leak a "Nope" to kill the 5.5" rumor well before now? Apple is good at PR. I don't think they would let this rumor branch build so large and last so long only to disappoint a big slice of the market in the last few weeks or at the launch itself.
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Hmm... I remember in 2009 that it was reported that the 3rd generation iPod Touch was going to be the first iPod Touch with a camera. There were even leaked pics and video of it fully assembled. Companies even released iPod Touch cases with camera holes!
https://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/images-of-next-generation-ipod-touch-surface/
Then at the September keynote (Apple iPod event), Apple released the 3rd Generation iPod Touch that only offered a minor spec bump and the new oleophobic coating on the screen. No camera to be found. Even in the post event media interview, Apple basically dodged questions about iPod Touch having a camera.
Even after release, iFixit did their usual teardown and found an empty spot... in the position that the early leaks showed a camera.
https://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/11/apple-still-planning-camera-in-ipod-touch/
So... in short... yes... Apple has been known to kill a rumored product or feature close to release. Apple can't really disappoint people buy failing to release products they never announced!
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
But they can manage the expectations of people about their most important product by leaking a simple "Nope" via Dalrymple. Too many people expect a 5.5" with reputable sources like WSJ and Bloomberg supporting that expectation.
Could Apple kill it at the last minute? Sure. But we could say the same about the rumored 4.7." My feeling is that there is just too much expectation of both sizes too late in the game that it would be pretty negative should Apple NOT also launch the 5.5". Just looking at this group here at this site, one can find a lot of references to the 5.5"-or-bust concept. Some of the sales to some of Apple most passionate fans could be salvaged with a simple "Nope," with enough time for the "or bust" crowd to have the 4.7" grow on them.
Instead, if Apple denies such high expectations of a 5.5" at the launch, the disappointment will likely drive defections to Androids around that size (that is exactly what is implied by "or bust"). I just don't see them doing it. Pair that logic with WSJ, Bloomberg, etc, plus the "why not?" logic of seeking to bite into the whole "bigger screen" market instead of just a chunk of it and it's hard for me to believe there is no 5.5" or so iPhone. Why would Apple leave the money it could capture for Samsung and others?
What I find most interesting is this almost burning passion by the 4.7" crowd to NOT want there to be the added choice of 5.5". If there is that choice, it affects the 4.7" crowd in no way whatsoever. They still get the size they want and can use it exactly the same as if there is no 5.5". Nevertheless, every iPhone 6 thread tends to be packed by the 4.7" crowd hoping/wishing/proclaiming no 5.5". For what purpose? To what benefit?
How I see it in a "no 5.5" scenario":
-Apple loses the revenues it would have captured from those that won't be satisfied with 4.7"
-That helps the Android crowd keep getting those sales for upwards of another year+ until Apple finally fills that hole
-A segment of passionate Apple fans are disappointed by Apple
-The press may focus on the lack of the 5.5" announcement more than the announcement of the new 4.7". In doing so, they may also highlight that the competition has had screens 4.7" and larger for years.
For what? Tradition? Some kind of imagined pattern? Some kind of idea of clinging to "one size fits all" (when the "perfect size" has already changed once and will soon change again)? Worry about pants pockets? Clinging to the "one-handed use" marketing bullet point? Rumors are very strong that the 4.7" crowd will get the iPhone 6 size they want whether there is or is not a 5.5". If so, what's it matter if there is a 5.5" iPhone?
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You make some very good points here, personally i hope there is a 5.5" along with the 4.7" if there is a 5.5" i think Apple can do it well.
I think the reason people are doubting the 5.5" is because of the lack of leaks and also Apple only ever releasing one screen phone at a time. But as you point out Apple released the 5C and 5S last year which people also did not expect Apple to do. In fact people on this very forum doubted the 5C existed.
My only issue with a 5.5" is will Apple make the 5.5" a Note 3 competitor? if so will it require a stylus which Apple is famous for not liking.
But the 5C actually has leaked parts. The only disappointment that Apple gave with the 5C was price. People were expecting it to be $300-400 off contract, but it was $550, like the "mid-tier" 4S and 4 from the previous years.
Hasn't there been leaked parts for the 5.5"? wasn't there a flex cable, i'm not saying your wrong i'm 50% on whether we will see a 5.5" there were leaks of a 5C and also renders of it if i remember correctly. At the moment there has also been renders of a 5.5" as well as the 4.7" but also there have been cases and leaked shells.
I don't think Jim Dalrymple even knows about this. It's not like Tim Cook calls him up and says, "Hey Jim, could you leak out some info for us?"
Jim probably has friends inside the Apple organization that give him little morsels of information.
Even so... Apple has never been a company to confirm to deny rumors... even if they are completely wrong or off-base.
As far as people "wanting for 5.5" phone to NOT come out"... I am not one of them. If one comes out, I'll probably give it a try. I had a Note 2 for a while and it wasn't horrible.
This thread was for fun for me. To declare publicly that a hot rumored product won't be coming out, give sound reasons as to WHY I believe it and encourage discussion about it. And to have a reference people (including myself) can go back to after September 9th.
For me it's all fun and games and I think it will be funny if I am wrong and eating crow in this thread.
But at the same time, I LOVE being right in a debate... so I am "rooting" for myself to be correct.
There have not been 5.5" leaks of cases/shells or front glass. Flex cables do not provide enough proof because all we know is that they go to a new iDevice... but we don't know which. Could be iPad or iPad mini.
As for the history of 5C leaks, here is a MacRumors article from 1 month before 5C announcement. It also includes VIDEO of a partially assembled 5C.
https://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/03/partially-assembled-ipad-5-and-iphone-5c-appear-in-new-videos/
You forget even Samsung isn't stupid not to cannibalize sales of their own Galaxy phones. They don't release Galaxy Note and Galaxy S series at the same time either.
It's not in Apple's best interest to release two brand new phones (iphone 5C doesn't count) at the same time.
I would be okay with this. As long as it would be within this refresh and not iPhone 7.
Or maybe it hasn't entered production and that's why there hasn't been any leaks? The 5.5" is supposedly only going to start production this month or maybe even next month. Why are there 4.7" leaks? Because it's already started production. Why is one being produced sooner than the other? Because the 5.5" is to be released in October while the 4.7" is being released in September, according to rumors. This would explain why there aren't any 5.5" leaks yet.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
So it wasn't best for Apple's best interest to release two brand new…
- iPads at the same time?
- Macbook Airs?
- Macbooks?
- iMacs?
And why not?
- Customer wants to buy a 4.7" iPhone. Apple has one and collects the money.
- Customer wants to buy a 5.5" iPhone. Apple has one and collects the money.
Apple isn't going to release two new iPhone sizes at the same time. (At least for 2014). This logic applies to iPhones at least for 2014.
When will people get over this.
Let's return to this subject after September announcement and see who's correct.
Apparently you don't understand Apple's mojo. Apple makes projects what they think customers want. Not making projects what customers prefer (some Steve jobs or other apple quote). It's been their mojo for a long time
The 2 "new iPads" weren't "new". It was only one new ipad (the mini). The ipad 4 was a refresh of the ipad 3 with faster processor and lightning port. Same screen. Same framework and body.
Same thing with iPad mini retina and iPad Air. IPad mini retina was a given. Same body style. Same 7.9' inch but with retina. The iPad Air was redesign.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Frankly, I don't even care who's right. If that's what all this is about, that's just sad.
I'm personally ONLY interested in an iPhone > 5" TO BUY. 5.5" sounds great to me. I won't buy a 4.7".
If I'm Apple, I've tried fighting key competition like Samsung in court and sort of won (but not a competitor crushing victory). However, I can hit them much more where it hurts by rolling out iOS on screen sizes they- among others- have made so popular that people will choose the inferior Android OS over iOS to get those bigger screens. I'm dumb if I roll out just one size and challenge about half that market when I could easily roll out both sizes and basically challenge the WHOLE, bigger screen market.
Waiting another year to fill that hole is leaving all that revenue for my competition for another year. Why? Apparently because it's not "my mojo" to roll out products with more than one screen size (even if that's exactly what I do with iPads, iMacs, MacBooks, etc, and it works so well for me and my shareholders).
I'm personally ONLY interested in an iPhone > 5" TO BUY. 5.5" sounds great to me. I won't buy a 4.7".
If I'm Apple, I've tried fighting key competition like Samsung in court and sort of won (but not a competitor crushing victory). However, I can hit them much more where it hurts by rolling out iOS on screen sizes they- among others- have made so popular that people will choose the inferior Android OS over iOS to get those bigger screens. I'm dumb if I roll out just one size and challenge about half that market when I could easily roll out both sizes and basically challenge the WHOLE, bigger screen market.
Waiting another year to fill that hole is leaving all that revenue for my competition for another year. Why? Apparently because it's not "my mojo" to roll out products with more than one screen size (even if that's exactly what I do with iPads, iMacs, MacBooks, etc, and it works so well for me and my shareholders).
The iPads always been 9.7 inch though. They just added the mini. Which would fall into what the op is saying. 4.7 is the new 6, while keeping the 4 inch for the 6c. Frankly I think the 5.5 is the iPhone 7.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OK, then per the "hold back" conspiracy, the implication of a 5.5" being iPhone 7 is that that which is held back- a .8" larger screen in this scenario- will likely be a big pull on all iPhone owners to "upgrade" to that 7.
If there ever is a 5.5", does screen-size = upgrade? This thread begins with the OP making the case why there is no 5.5". Many similar threads are people passionately putting it down- "need new pants", "99% don't want", blah-blah-blah. So how can 5.5" be a big reason to upgrade to an iPhone 7? Or why hold it back for the 7 when it seems most of this crowd (anyway) favors the 4.7"? Maybe Apple should roll out the 5.5" and hold back the more desired 4.7" per that kind of thinking?
It's just a size option. Like arguing why an 11" Macbook is more or less desirable than a 13" or 15". I could make a passionate case that it is an upgrade to go from an 11" laptop screen to a 15" screen. OR, I could make a passionate case how it's an upgrade to do the reverse. That's how it is- subjective.
We're all not going to like 4.7" vs. 4" vs. 3.5" vs. 5.5." That's why the competition has models in various screen sizes. They make more money by giving the market that buys bigger-screen phones CHOICES. Apple can choose to bite into more of that bigger-screen market or not. If not, they leave a chunk of that market to their competitors for up to as much as another year. Why? I can't seem to figure out a good answer to that. Apparently, it's something about tradition, mojo, pattern, "one handed use", pants pockets, etc.
If there ever is a 5.5", does screen-size = upgrade? This thread begins with the OP making the case why there is no 5.5". Many similar threads are people passionately putting it down- "need new pants", "99% don't want", blah-blah-blah. So how can 5.5" be a big reason to upgrade to an iPhone 7? Or why hold it back for the 7 when it seems most of this crowd (anyway) favors the 4.7"? Maybe Apple should roll out the 5.5" and hold back the more desired 4.7" per that kind of thinking?
It's just a size option. Like arguing why an 11" Macbook is more or less desirable than a 13" or 15". I could make a passionate case that it is an upgrade to go from an 11" laptop screen to a 15" screen. OR, I could make a passionate case how it's an upgrade to do the reverse. That's how it is- subjective.
We're all not going to like 4.7" vs. 4" vs. 3.5" vs. 5.5." That's why the competition has models in various screen sizes. They make more money by giving the market that buys bigger-screen phones CHOICES. Apple can choose to bite into more of that bigger-screen market or not. If not, they leave a chunk of that market to their competitors for up to as much as another year. Why? I can't seem to figure out a good answer to that. Apparently, it's something about tradition, mojo, pattern, "one handed use", pants pockets, etc.
Usually screen size is looked at as an upgrade for cell phones. The notes cost more than the regular galaxy phones. A 5.5 allows bigger battery and more room in general. This cycle of iPhone usually means actual hardware physical changes, so it makes sense to have a 5.5 be the iPhone 7. If I'm wrong so be it, but I'm just going off of past history. Other than a logic board there's been pretty much nothing of a 5.5. And that logic board can't even be confirmed.
Hey if they do a 5.5 that's great. They'll really eat up sales more than they do now. The one thing that I notice is that there's nothing about a 6c. No colored mock ups, nothing. With a month to go normally you start seeing rumors surface.