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jackoatmon

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
617
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So I was a proponent of the touch bar. Some here may remember me posting optimistic thoughts about it.

And I am still a big proponent of the 2016-17 Macbook Pros. I strongly believe these are the finest laptops ever created, and that there's literally nothing on the market that even comes close. I love the keyboard, have had zero issues with USBc & legacy I/O, the machine is insanely powerful, cool and quiet, and it looks sick in client presentations.

But.

A year in I have to say, the Touch Bar is an utter and complete failure. A mistake so huge and so prominent as to be historic. Why? [note: I am on the latest updates of everything mentioned here]

• A year in, very, very few of my everyday professional applications support it. And these are huge flagship mainstream programs. I spend the majority of my work time in Adobe CC programs. To date, only Photoshop and in the past few weeks Illustrator has finally gotten support. Lightroom, InDesign, After Effects – all the most important programs display a black Touch Bar. Adobe has no stated plans to expand support to the rest of the CC, and my communications with their customer service has indicated that I should not hold my breath. This is true of many professional programs – software companies seem to be just treating it as an unnecessary edge case and spending their dev time elsewhere.

• Bootcamp still does not support Touch Bar. Yes, I know it works sometimes, but about 60% of the time, the bar is black, meaning for Windows, I have to restart the computer 1–3 times each time I go into Windows, hoping to luck out and get a bootup with touch bar. And since there's no escape key, restarting in windows requires a lot of weird shortcuts, since the trackpad often doesn't work when the touch bar doesn't load up.

• The system preferences feature to set certain programs to default to display F keys instead of contextual controls simply does not work. I have various programs set to opt for F keys, and the touch bar simply shows up black. I've never gotten this to work for a single program. The cake is a lie.

• No escape key turns out to be the bane of my existence about 3 times per week, as the touch bar loves to freeze, disappear, crash and otherwise flub when in unsupported applications. I've hard-reset this laptop holding down the power button more in one year than all other times I've ever hard reset a Mac combined.

I could go on and on and on and on. I love this computer. It's my favourite piece of technology I've ever owned, outside one very nice Kona bicycle I custom tricked-out. I wanted to leave this frank highly negative review, as someone who is very positive about the direction Apple is going with its laptops. As someone who gave it the old college try, and even got my entire company on the machines, at considerable expense to my own profit margin. I'm a believer.

And this thing is an epic, epic fail.
 
no stated plans to expand support to the rest of the CC, and my communications with their customer service has indicated that I should not hold my breath. This is true of many professional programs – software companies seem to be just treating it as an unnecessary edge case and spending their dev time elsewhere.

Well that's the thing though - it is an edge case. If/hopefully when, the TouchBar comes to more Macs, like the MacBook and somehow (implementation will be fun) the iMac and Mac Pro, developers have a reason to see it differently.

• The system preferences feature to set certain programs to default to display F keys instead of contextual controls simply does not work. I have various programs set to opt for F keys, and the touch bar simply shows up black. I've never gotten this to work for a single program. The cake is a lie.

That makes me very sad... I wouldn't be so bothered about apps not using the TouchBar if it would then still be easy to get the F-keys with that app :(

• No escape key turns out to be the bane of my existence about 3 times per week, as the touch bar loves to freeze, disappear, crash and otherwise flub when in unsupported applications. I've hard-reset this laptop holding down the power button more in one year than all other times I've ever hard reset a Mac combined.

And that's even more sad... *Sigh*
 
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For me, a lot of the touch bar features are redundant or just not that useful. For instance, when I move my cursor to the top window of Safari, it shows me a list of my favorite bookmarks and frequently visited sites. The touch bar also shows the icons of my bookmarked sites, but why would I look down and select it from the touch bar when I can simply click on it with the cursor?
 
Yep, I feel mostly the same. I tried using the touch bar for the first week or two but stopped because the features it offered were useless or redundant. Instead, changing the volume or brightness became a two step process. But, the device overall is great so since the Touch Bar does not destroy the laptop, I am fine. Sadly, Apple rarely admits to making a mistake so they will just double down on this feature.
 
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So I was a proponent of the touch bar. Some here may remember me posting optimistic thoughts about it.

And I am still a big proponent of the 2016-17 Macbook Pros. I strongly believe these are the finest laptops ever created, and that there's literally nothing on the market that even comes close. I love the keyboard, have had zero issues with USBc & legacy I/O, the machine is insanely powerful, cool and quiet, and it looks sick in client presentations.

But.

A year in I have to say, the Touch Bar is an utter and complete failure. A mistake so huge and so prominent as to be historic. Why? [note: I am on the latest updates of everything mentioned here]

• A year in, very, very few of my everyday professional applications support it. And these are huge flagship mainstream programs. I spend the majority of my work time in Adobe CC programs. To date, only Photoshop and in the past few weeks Illustrator has finally gotten support. Lightroom, InDesign, After Effects – all the most important programs display a black Touch Bar. Adobe has no stated plans to expand support to the rest of the CC, and my communications with their customer service has indicated that I should not hold my breath. This is true of many professional programs – software companies seem to be just treating it as an unnecessary edge case and spending their dev time elsewhere.

• Bootcamp still does not support Touch Bar. Yes, I know it works sometimes, but about 60% of the time, the bar is black, meaning for Windows, I have to restart the computer 1–3 times each time I go into Windows, hoping to luck out and get a bootup with touch bar. And since there's no escape key, restarting in windows requires a lot of weird shortcuts, since the trackpad often doesn't work when the touch bar doesn't load up.

• The system preferences feature to set certain programs to default to display F keys instead of contextual controls simply does not work. I have various programs set to opt for F keys, and the touch bar simply shows up black. I've never gotten this to work for a single program. The cake is a lie.

• No escape key turns out to be the bane of my existence about 3 times per week, as the touch bar loves to freeze, disappear, crash and otherwise flub when in unsupported applications. I've hard-reset this laptop holding down the power button more in one year than all other times I've ever hard reset a Mac combined.

I could go on and on and on and on. I love this computer. It's my favourite piece of technology I've ever owned, outside one very nice Kona bicycle I custom tricked-out. I wanted to leave this frank highly negative review, as someone who is very positive about the direction Apple is going with its laptops. As someone who gave it the old college try, and even got my entire company on the machines, at considerable expense to my own profit margin. I'm a believer.

And this thing is an epic, epic fail.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to pen this excellent, thoughtful and informative review. Very interesting and thought-provoking.

I have had private qualms about the TouchBar and now will not touch it - all puns intended - with a proverbial bargepole.

If I invest in a 13" MBP sometime over the coming year, it will be the non-Touch Bar option.
 
For me, a lot of the touch bar features are redundant or just not that useful. For instance, when I move my cursor to the top window of Safari, it shows me a list of my favorite bookmarks and frequently visited sites. The touch bar also shows the icons of my bookmarked sites, but why would I look down and select it from the touch bar when I can simply click on it with the cursor?

Or even easier - cmd+alt+1-9. Takes you directly to that bookmark. I go to MacRumors instantly with cmd+alt+9

You can tap/hold on the volume/brightness icon and then slide your finger left/right to adjust. Which is one-step and arguably faster/smoother than before

This is much better than two-taps but I wouldn't call it faster than the F-keys from before. At least not for me (disclaimer - I don't have the actual tMBP so my experiences have been short bursts). I know exactly where all the F-keys for controls are, but have to look down to find the controls on the tMBP. The Touch Bar method however, is a lot more precise! Alt+Shift+F-control for volume or brightness is really quite precise, but the Touch sliders are practically as precise as your finger is
 
Thanks for this, I was really close to buying the TB version, but if I'm going to be honest I don't need it. May as well save some dough, I've just ordered the entry level model which should be more than enough for me. Can't wait!
 
Thanks for this, I was really close to buying the TB version, but if I'm going to be honest I don't need it. May as well save some dough, I've just ordered the entry level model which should be more than enough for me. Can't wait!

What I find to be the more meaningful difference with the TB model, is that it's got much better cooling, and thereby a higher-TDP chip
 
I think the Touch Bar is going to become optional across the line in the next revision and possibly be gone in this coming revision or the one afterwords.

Several prominent podcasts have now made mention that Apple was surprised by the mixed reaction to things like the Touch Bar from the pro market and so at the minimum I'll be surprised if it's not completely optional for all the models soon.

They used to have an editor (Steve) who would nix a bad idea before it got to market… He of course is gone but I sure hope they still have it within themselves to kill something that was a failed effort.

No shame in doing that… The real mistake would be in continuing something that's a bad idea
 
Touchbar is largely a slightly more beneficial addition to the computer, I find it nice every now and again but doesn't really do much for me other than make me ponder emoji choices a bit more than usual. The rest of the computer is quite significantly different to the no Touchbar version however, and the TB shouldn't be seen as an extra cost/differentiator. It's an entirely different computer!
 
I haven't had any issues with it other than accidentally hitting the virtual keys because I got my fingers too close to the touchbar. I wish I had the physical keys but I wanted 4 ports not 2...
 
And this thing is an epic, epic fail.



Almost the entire late 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro has been an epic failure.
The screen is amazing and that's about it.
The rest has been a disaster.

The other MBPs were never criticized as much as this new thing.
Most people loved them.

Yes they were way behind others when the new one came out BUT no one
ever asked for a super thin machine with last year's battery technology,
under powered, keyboard that doesn't work, touch bar and oh....only USB-C please.
 
I find that the touchbar is useful intermittently. The biggest problem is exaclty as you mentioned:

1) Spotty support so you don't really remember which programs support it and which doesn't
2) you have to take your eyes off your screen and usually programs with good UI would have it on the screen

As it stands, volume and brightness controls are great. Everything else.... meh
 
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Is there a link to those podcasts? I would love to hear them.

Sorry. I've deleted them from my player and sont recall specific shows/episodes as I usually listen when driving and don't always catch that part of detail.

All in the last couple weeks on the usual ATP, Gruber and a Relay.fm and related type of shows

Sorry I don't have more specific links for ya
 
You can tap/hold on the volume/brightness icon and then slide your finger left/right to adjust. Which is one-step and arguably faster/smoother than before

You don't need to tap to expand the control, and then tap again on the slider
Oh hell no it's not. You still have look down on my keyboard to change the volume or brightness. Without the TB, I can do so without looking.

Even if you don't have to look down, changing the volume by pressing a button is more precise than sliding on a touchscreen. There's a reason why a virtual keyboard hasn't replaced a real keyboard on laptops yet.
 
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A year in, very, very few of my everyday professional applications support it.
Not surprising given how ultra-niche the Touchbar is, and how its functionality is already in place with short cut keys. That is most of the Touchbar functionality is superfluous. Apple's marketshare is what, 10 percent (a bit higher maybe?) and what percentage of that 10 percent is touchbar based computers? Its hard to motivate developers to spend time and money on a feature that doesn't add anything on such a niche portion of their customers.

Bootcamp still does not support Touch Bar. Yes, I know it works sometimes
I can see that being the case, as Windows is not really developed to use it, and so much of the functionality is not even available.

I've long said its a gimmick, but it does look cool, sadly though its not really that useful in most people's day to day interaction with the laptop, at least that's my opinion. I'm sure there will be people chiming in stating how wrong, that since I don't have one, that I have no idea what I'm talking about and perhaps they're right to a degree. However when I ask other people or see people in the Apple store ask about it, its clear they don't see the usefulness of it either.
 
Almost the entire late 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro has been an epic failure.
The screen is amazing and that's about it.
The rest has been a disaster.

This is wrong. I don't know who told you that but they were way off the mark. They're easily the best laptops on the market, and they're certainly way, wayyyyyy better than any previous iteration of the Macbook Pro, even with the touch bar.

I'm guessing your opinion was formed 2nd hand and not from actually using the device.
 
This is wrong. I don't know who told you that but they were way off the mark. They're easily the best laptops on the market, and they're certainly way, wayyyyyy better than any previous iteration of the Macbook Pro

That's fine you feel that way, but it is 100% subjective opinion on your part. The new models and the decisions they made are not a clear win at all.

For me, save for newer internals (which don't matter for me - it's close enough) & the screen (but only if you have them side by side or have a specific use case for the new one), everything, literally everything, about the 2015 15" MBP is superior for me.

The trackpad, the keyboard, the array of useful ports, the time tested durable and reliable casing, just - all of it.

The models are different enough, despite being the same line, that it really matters who you are, what you're doing and what features you care about to decide which is "better" for you.

Just one example of zillions I could share, but yesterday I was in 3 locations and put a USB-A thumb drive in and out probably 45 times. I would be going insane with a dongle doing that, having it hanging off, making sure not to lose it as I was moving around, etc.

At the 2nd office, I ended up docking the machine to get a bigger screen for some photo work for an hour - Guess what....HDMI plugged right in. Man is that nice as I didn't know I'd be doing that.
 
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That's fine you feel that way, but it is 100% subjective opinion on your part. The new models and the decisions they made are not a clear win at all.

For me, save for newer internals (which don't matter for me - it's close enough) & the screen (but only if you have them side by side or have a specific use case for the new one), everything, literally everything, about the 2015 15" MBP is superior for me.

The trackpad, the keyboard, the array of useful ports, the time tested durable and reliable casing, just - all of it.

The models are different enough, despite being the same line, that it really matters who you are, what you're doing and what features you care about to decide which is "better" for you.

Just one example of zillions I could share, but yesterday I was in 3 locations and put a USB-A thumb drive in and out probably 45 times. I would be going insane with a dongle doing that, having it hanging off, making sure not to lose it as I was moving around, etc.

At the 2nd office, I ended up docking the machine to get a bigger screen for some photo work for an hour - Guess what....HDMI plugged right in. Man is that nice as I didn't know I'd be doing that.

Your experience is what concerns me about the new systems. Why oh why did not Apple leave a USB-A port. Give the negative reviews about the MacBook's USB-C only they should have known. I guess we should be happy they gave us multiple USB-C ports?

And taking away the physical Escape key is criminal for developers.
 
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Your experience is what concerns me about the new systems. Why oh why did not Apple leave a USB-A port. Give the negative reviews about the MacBook's USB-C only they should have known. I guess we should be happy they gave us multiple USB-C ports?

And taking away the physical Escape key is criminal for developers.

Apple simply wanted a pleasing aesthetic for the majority of it's target audience, with little or no consideration for those that need to use the MBP in anger. For me personally the 2016 design MBP is simply far too compromised for me to consider as a professional tool, generating problems that should never exist, nor previously existed...

Q-6
 
Apple simply wanted a pleasing aesthetic for the majority of it's target audience, with little or no consideration for those that need to use the MBP in anger. For me personally the 2016 design MBP is simply far too compromised for me to consider as a professional tool, generating problems that should never exist, nor previously existed...

Q-6
But even the majority of their target audience need a USB A port to charge their fancy iPhones and fancy Android phones.
 
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