The Touch Bar a Year In – A Believer's Review

[Queen6]

But even the majority of their target audience need a USB A port to charge their fancy iPhones and fancy Android phones.

Apple has a dongle to meet everyone's needs these days "If" Apple was serious about USB C, iPhone would have. It doesn't as Apple would loose millions in Lightening licensing deals, and is too cheap to include a basic USB C - USB A adaptor with even the most expensive MBP.

Apple's nickel & diming of it's customers really turns me off, "insanely greedy" if you will. As ever monopolies rarely serve the customer...

Q-6

 

[William Payne]

Was there this much hate over FireWire being dumped?

 

[c0ppo]

I hate the TB! Literally hate it.
Even after they introduced new MBP in 2016, my mind was already made up. But I thought if I give it a shot, maybe, just maybe... Well, nope. Trying it out made it even worse.

What problems does TB solve? None.
Does TB improve on 'old' function keys? Nope.

Almost everything TB can do, you can do faster and easier with keyboard shortcuts. And some basic stuff that you use every day (brightness and volume control for example), TB does way worse then function keys.

But we get to enjoy emojis, so there is that at least.

I will purchase MBP, but only if Apple ever releases 15" MBP without TB. And not crippled down like the 13" ntMBP. Until then, Apple won't see my money. At all. I already use a Lenovo, a move that I thought I would never even consider.

 

[sphinx99]

TB took away things that were useful and replaced them with something that isn’t. There is something to be learned from the trend away from fully capacitive controls in vehicles (a recent fad) and back toward having buttons for common functions. Our fingers are amazing tactile sensory devices... and muscle memory is an amazing accelerator; why would one not take advantage?

I wish the existing keys had remained and the TB were positioned above it.

 

[munna78]

Oh hell no it's not. You still have look down on my keyboard to change the volume or brightness. Without the TB, I can do so without looking.

Even if you don't have to look down, changing the volume by pressing a button is more precise than sliding on a touchscreen. There's a reason why a virtual keyboard hasn't replaced a real keyboard on laptops yet.

Dramatic much?

Even with the function keys, I was sometimes off by 1 key when trying to adjust the volume/brightness without looking. So the touch bar doesn't remove anything for me in that workflow. I prefer the slide motion much more than the repeated 'tap tap tap' to adjust

For me, the touch bar has added more value than what the function keys did. (ie, scrubber when watching videos, 'extend/duplicate' display buttons when presenting, mic mute shortcut in skype for business, address auto-fill in safari, shortcuts in xcode, add a lock-screen button, etc)

Sure, tactile/haptic feedback would be nice ( technology not there yet) - but this takes it in the right direction. Keyboard shortcuts will always be faster (and i still use a tonne of them), but i'm sure apple never intended for the touchbar to replace that. This is a great supplement in those cases where you don't remember the keyboard shortcut, or want extra options based on the context of what you are doing without digging into menus

 

[Altis]

Was there this much hate over FireWire being dumped?

Firewire was obscure at the best of times.

USB-A is still pretty well king even two years after Apple didn't nobody needed it.

It wouldn't have killed them to give 1 or 2.

 

[EugW]

The TouchBar sucks ass.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Wow. I've had the 2017 MBP for a couple weeks and absolutely LOVE the touch bar. It's extremely useful and offers a lot more functionality than standard F keys do. I use VMWare for my windows instances and it integrates the Touch Bar. Maybe that would be a better solution for you? Either way, I see the future of the TB being very positive.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Was there this much hate over FireWire being dumped?

FireWire is a really poor comparison to something like USB-A
USB-A is the most ubiquitous port in computing history so far.

 

[5to1]

That's fine you feel that way, but it is 100% subjective opinion on your part. The new models and the decisions they made are not a clear win at all.

For me, save for newer internals (which don't matter for me - it's close enough) & the screen (but only if you have them side by side or have a specific use case for the new one), everything, literally everything, about the 2015 15" MBP is superior for me.

The trackpad, the keyboard, the array of useful ports, the time tested durable and reliable casing, just - all of it.

The models are different enough, despite being the same line, that it really matters who you are, what you're doing and what features you care about to decide which is "better" for you.

Just one example of zillions I could share, but yesterday I was in 3 locations and put a USB-A thumb drive in and out probably 45 times. I would be going insane with a dongle doing that, having it hanging off, making sure not to lose it as I was moving around, etc.

At the 2nd office, I ended up docking the machine to get a bigger screen for some photo work for an hour - Guess what....HDMI plugged right in. Man is that nice as I didn't know I'd be doing that.

Shrinking the footprint? IMO huge positive over the old machine.

Also as you appear to be on the move a lot (from your examples), loss of MagSafe is a big negative, but charging from either side is a big positive.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Shrinking the footprint? IMO huge positive over the old machine.

Just not a big deal to me - The 2015 is plenty portable & svelte for me honestly.
The tradeoffs they made to make it smaller & thinner are huge drawbacks to me.

That's what led to a smaller battery, less height for ports and the keyboard nightmare.

 

[alex00100]

• Bootcamp still does not support Touch Bar. Yes, I know it works sometimes, but about 60% of the time, the bar is black, meaning for Windows, I have to restart the computer 1–3 times each time I go into Windows, hoping to luck out and get a bootup with touch bar. And since there's no escape key, restarting in windows requires a lot of weird shortcuts, since the trackpad often doesn't work when the touch bar doesn't load up.

Try pressing the fn key, brings it back alive every time for me.

 

[jerry70450]

Just not a big deal to me - The 2015 is plenty portable & svelte for me honestly.
The tradeoffs they made to make it smaller & thinner are huge drawbacks to me.

That's what led to a smaller battery, less height for ports and the keyboard nightmare.

I like the current thinness and size. Its a perfect mix of power and portability. The previous gen felt a tad too thick and heavy. Unfortunately battery tech haven't caught up yet. I'm ok with the ports. Keyboard's fine to type on but reliability is horrible.

 

[FilmIndustryGuy]

Hi Nerds

I bought a second 2017 MB so that I can have the touch bar and it has shortcuts for all my programs. I think it’s a wonderful idea but than again I look at all the keys as I type.

 

[kikote]

I made the jump from my old iMac to new MacBookPro 2 months ago. My usage of the TouchBar is very limited. I don't really see it as a big improvement... I just see it as a redundant way to offer functionality in a different, dynamic way... And that is probably the problem...The user acceptance of a new interactive way depends of the value/advantage it offers to the customer... For me it offers a minimal advantage and the usage affords a change of my working routine. So, not a great value...
BUT the integrated TouchID is great, especially if you use apps like 1Password that make use of it. Here you get a valuable functionality you get used to immediately because it is an noticeable advantage.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I like the current thinness and size. Its a perfect mix of power and portability. The previous gen felt a tad too thick and heavy. Unfortunately battery tech haven't caught up yet. I'm ok with the ports. Keyboard's fine to type on but reliability is horrible.

My read on your comment is that you "like the new thinness and size" but don't like the tradeoffs at this time.

Battery tech isn't ready and the keyboard issues are directly related to making it thinner.
It seems like they should have waited another gen until the tech was ready to go this thin.
[doublepost=1514222127][/doublepost]

BUT the integrated TouchID is great

Unfortunately the writing is on the wall for TouchID it would appear.

 

[jerry70450]

My read on your comment is that you "like the new thinness and size" but don't like the tradeoffs at this time.

Battery tech isn't ready and the keyboard issues are directly related to making it thinner.
It seems like they should have waited another gen until the tech was ready to go this thin.
[doublepost=1514222127][/doublepost]

Unfortunately the writing is on the wall for TouchID it would appear.

Yeah this design would've been great for the 2020 redesign.

 

[littleredwagen]

Wow. I've had the 2017 MBP for a couple weeks and absolutely LOVE the touch bar. It's extremely useful and offers a lot more functionality than standard F keys do. I use VMWare for my windows instances and it integrates the Touch Bar. Maybe that would be a better solution for you? Either way, I see the future of the TB being very positive.

That is good to know. I was wondering about this. I am heavy VMware user.

 

[mj_]

When the new MacBook Pros were first released I went to my local Apple store several times to try it out and see whether or not I liked it. After several weeks of going back and forth trying to hit the virtual ESC key blindly on the TB model I eventuelly decided that while I loved the tactile feel of the butterfly switches and got used to them fairly quickly (imagine my surprise) the Touch Bar was a big no go for me. Consequently, I ended up getting the 13" nTB model in early 2017 because Apple doesn't offer a 15" model without TB. Unfortunately, the keyboard also turned out to have another arch nemesis in addition to microscopic omnipresent specks of dust: constant warmth caused by an external 4K display. After eight months I'm currently on my third repair attempt because of sticky and high-pitched keys and have given up on the new keyboard altogether - going back to the 2015 15" model.

Don't get me wrong, I like the general idea of a variable input option with changing labels and functionality. However, it has to come in addition to the already existing and established six rows and not instead of one of them. Lenovo already tried that on the first X1 (or second? Don't remember exactly) and failed miserably. I'm surprised that Apple hasn't learned from their experience. I really and truly hope that in the next 3-4 years, Apple is going to improve upon the butterfly mechanism further to make it more resistant to dust, dirt and heat and offer a 15" model without that dreaded strip of uselessness up top. Then and only then will I ever consider getting a newer 15" MacBook Pro.

 

[CyberBob859]

Was there this much hate over FireWire being dumped?

Actually, yes.

When Apple released the Aluminum Unibody Macbook in 2008, it dropped the Firewire 400 port. Caused a lot of grief, similar to what we're seeing now with the designs for MacBook and (especially) the MacBook Pro.

 

[EugW]

Actually, yes.

When Apple released the Aluminum Unibody Macbook in 2008, it dropped the Firewire 400 port. Caused a lot of grief, similar to what we're seeing now with the designs for MacBook and (especially) the MacBook Pro.

Interestingly, I was one of the very disappointed ones, so I skipped that model, and guess what? They brought Firewire back to the MacBook a year later and called it a MacBook Pro. That Firewire-endowed 2009 MacBook Pro has been my primary laptop until earlier this year.

Ironically a few months ago I just picked a 2008 aluminum MacBook, just because I needed a replacement kitchen laptop, because my old white MacBook couldn’t be updated past 10.7.5. Got it for about US$150 and installed an SSD, 8 GB RAM, and 10.13 on it. Works fine.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

I have a late 2008 MacBook Pro with the firewire 800 port.

 

[EugW]

I have a late 2008 MacBook Pro with the firewire 800 port.

Yes, they removed it in the 2008 aluminum MacBook non-Pro. Then they put it back and called it a MacBook Pro in 2009.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Yes, they removed it in the 2008 aluminum MacBook non-Pro. Then they put it back and called it a MacBook Pro in 2009.

What you say doesn't make sense. The MacBook Pro has been around since 2006. My Late 2008 model HAS the firewire port. You make it sound like they created a new laptop and called it the MacBook Pro in 2009. Maybe you mean to say they removed it from the regular MacBook late 2009 and left it in the Pro line?

 

[EugW]

What you say doesn't make sense. The MacBook Pro has been around since 2006. My Late 2008 model HAS the firewire port. You make it sound like they created a new laptop and called it the MacBook Pro in 2009. Maybe you mean to say they removed it from the regular MacBook late 2009 and left it in the Pro line?

Sorry if I was somewhat unclear. 2008 was a very unusual release year, so let me provide the details.

They created a new aluminum 13” laptop and priced it like a Pro, but it was branded a MacBook non-Pro. However, at the same time, despite the premium price, it was missing the Firewire port.

It was priced too high for the MacBook crowd, and it was missing the Firewire port that the pro crowd wanted. Plus, the previous MacBook non-Pros had Firewire, so this seemed like a slap in the face to everyone. I suspect this hit Apple in the pocketbook because in 2009, Apple reintroduced the Firewire port in this model but rebranded it as a MacBook Pro, leaving all the non-Pro MacBooks as plastic and all the Pros as aluminum.

If you look at the 2008 aluminum 13” MacBook non-Pro and the 2009 13” MacBook Pro, they look identical, aside from minor differences in the bottom case and of course the presence of the Firewire port in the 2009. Furthermore, the innards are nearly identical. Same GPU but the 2009 gets a slight speed bump.