The "Waiting for Nehalem Mac Pros" thread

[nanofrog]

I would think we will see a board with dual Tylersburg-36D chipsets for 4 full PCI-E slots, but maybe they will go with just a single one. The only mystery I'd say is the graphics cards.

This is what I've been hoping, and waiting for a definitive answer on. 4 PCIe 2.0 slots would certainly be nice to have. Might just simplify card configuration for some. 😉

I assumed that the current limitations were due to the lack of boards with four full PCI-E 2.0 slots meaning Nvidia hadn't bothered to make it work with four phyiscal cards.

I'd always viewed the PCIe 2.0 quantity limit was the issue as well.

 

[m1stake]

TBH I don't see why ATI supports it. 4 4870's are a tiny bit more expensive than 2 4870X2s. The performance is about the same.

 

[mchalebk]

I've been following this thread (and other new MacPro related threads) for some time now, but I am unsure about the recent comments on the new processor being delayed (or not).

Do we definitively know whether or not the processor that Apple is expected to use in the next revision of the MacPro will be released by Intel in November (barring unforeseen developments, of course)?

I think I can wait until January to buy, but I don't know how much longer I'm willing to wait. And, yes, I know this all falls under the "rumor" category and Apple will do what Apple will do, but I'd like to know how sure we are that things are on track for a January update of the MacPro.

 

[nanofrog]

I've been following this thread (and other new MacPro related threads) for some time now, but I am unsure about the recent comments on the new processor being delayed (or not).

Do we definitively know whether or not the processor that Apple is expected to use in the next revision of the MacPro will be released by Intel in November (barring unforeseen developments, of course)?

I think I can wait until January to buy, but I don't know how much longer I'm willing to wait. And, yes, I know this all falls under the "rumor" category and Apple will do what Apple will do, but I'd like to know how sure we are that things are on track for a January update of the MacPro.

Intel had originally intended to release the desktop and DP server parts in a similar time frame. Then an article or two surfaced that said the DP server (Gainestown EP/Xeon 5500 series) parts would be late. Q1, which is somewhat vague IMO, as it can be Jan. to Mar. '09, then a little time is needed for system vendors to build and ship, hopefully only a month or so. Worst case then starts to look somewhat gloomy (May).

Intel wants, and needs, to get these out ASAP to regain the R&D,... Hopefully, Jan would be more accurate than Mar., but no way to tell yet. No new articles have surfaced AFAIK.

I'm hoping more information begins to trickle in once the desktop parts release, so not too long (Nov or so) I would think.

 

[liquid stereo]

Ordering today

I just created my web order and as soon as the accountant is free, it will be processed.

I realized that the increase in price (MPro + 16GB of memory) in addition to the wait-time, is too much for me.

I really enjoy my 2x2GHz G5 (8GB) but I need more memory (and the additional cores will be great).

Cheers!

I've been following this thread (and other new MacPro related threads) for some time now, but I am unsure about the recent comments on the new processor being delayed (or not).

Do we definitively know whether or not the processor that Apple is expected to use in the next revision of the MacPro will be released by Intel in November (barring unforeseen developments, of course)?

I think I can wait until January to buy, but I don't know how much longer I'm willing to wait. And, yes, I know this all falls under the "rumor" category and Apple will do what Apple will do, but I'd like to know how sure we are that things are on track for a January update of the MacPro.

 

[RhymeAnimal]

Looking at all the information available, it is becoming increasingly clear that the new Mac Pro will be announced in January.

I'm going to wait until then. I'll have about $6500 to spend at that time-- I think it will be life-changing to go from a PowerBook G4 1.67GHz to a new Mac Pro.

Can't wait!!

 

[m1stake]

your computer sounds fast compared to my old clunker. 😛

 

[liquid stereo]

Announced vs shipping and the price of memory

After checking the prices of the new CPUs, the speculation on DDR3 pricing and remembering Apple's "announced" vs "shipping" I decided its better for me to go ahead now.

I don't want to spend more than $3,500 and I need fast drives. The chances of that being the case on the Mac Pros doesn't seem so great. Also, the Display Port appears to be a PITA. I remember buying a $150 apple ADC to DVI connector... never again with that nonsense.

The one thing I will miss is the potential of the new memory access approach. But I figure it will cost me about 25-30% difference in computing speed at best. I write/compile my own multi-processor codes and they're memory limited. I.e. the CPUs generally waste a lot of cycles waiting for data. The new system should better address those issues.

Cheers!

Looking at all the information available, it is becoming increasingly clear that the new Mac Pro will be announced in January.

I'm going to wait until then. I'll have about $6500 to spend at that time-- I think it will be life-changing to go from a PowerBook G4 1.67GHz to a new Mac Pro.

Can't wait!!

 

[noushy]

Nehalem Mac Pro

It may be announced in January, but will probably be much later before it is available. People who need a machine now, buy a base 2.8 8core machine, and use it. You will be able to sell it for reasonable price in the spring and apply that money towards a faster machine if you really need it. The dual quadcore machine is incredibly fast at everything it does. How many people need more than that? I say this as a person who owns a dual 2.8, 16gb ram, 8800gt card, and 4tb internal raid5. Honestly, even this is overkill for most tasks. If you truly need more power, I am sure your work can afford a render farm of xserves. Also, very little has been leaked out on the xeon version of the core i7 architecture, other than it is coming. Intel did show a machine at IDF, but that was about it. Then again, Intel and Apple have this strange relationship where from time to time Apple gets product first.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[PostTribber]

'the play must go on....and on...and on'

Apple borrowed their Business Model directly from the Stage: "always leave them wanting more...and more...and..." ... well, you get it. 😉

 

[nanofrog]

Apple borrowed their Business Model directly from the Stage: "always leave them wanting more...and more...and..." ... well, you get it. 😉

What? 😱 I always thought they swiped it from IBM of old. 😀 😛

 

[nanofrog]

People who need a machine now, buy a base 2.8 8core machine, and use it.

This advice seems timeless to me, though it ends up having to be posted often. 😉 😛

Also, very little has been leaked out on the xeon version of the core i7 architecture, other than it is coming. Intel did show a machine at IDF, but that was about it. Then again, Intel and Apple have this strange relationship where from time to time Apple gets product first.

Peace,
Noushy

In what sense? 😕

Quite a bit has come out on the CPUs, even part numbers and lot pricing.
It's in the forum. Somewhere, as there's quite a few posts at this point. 😱 😉

It seems the X5550 @ 2.66GHz, 1333MHz memory sells for $958 in quantity. The part above is too expensive for the base model, and part below doesn't run on 1333MHz memory.

Intel Roadmap on Tom's Hardware
The wiki page might help with architecture. Scroll down to "Variants", and the Gainestown has a listing.

Hope this helps. 🙂

 

[liquid stereo]

Ditto

This is the configuration I ordered. Less disk as I have external for that purpose.

I feel like I need my machine now. Really yesterday. I've been waiting since August and I wish I had the machine to do a project that was due Sept. 17th.
If the MB-Pro was capable of more memory I would have done it on that.

Cheers!

It may be announced in January, but will probably be much later before it is available. People who need a machine now, buy a base 2.8 8core machine, and use it. You will be able to sell it for reasonable price in the spring and apply that money towards a faster machine if you really need it. The dual quadcore machine is incredibly fast at everything it does. How many people need more than that? I say this as a person who owns a dual 2.8, 16gb ram, 8800gt card, and 4tb internal raid5. Honestly, even this is overkill for most tasks. If you truly need more power, I am sure your work can afford a render farm of xserves. Also, very little has been leaked out on the xeon version of the core i7 architecture, other than it is coming. Intel did show a machine at IDF, but that was about it. Then again, Intel and Apple have this strange relationship where from time to time Apple gets product first.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

This is the configuration I ordered. Less disk as I have external for that purpose.

I feel like I need my machine now. Really yesterday. I've been waiting since August and I wish I had the machine to do a project that was due Sept. 17th.
If the MB-Pro was capable of more memory I would have done it on that.

Cheers!

As you really had an immediate need, you couldn't wait. 😉

Though it will likely serve you well for awhile, you can always sell it off later in order to upgrade if and when you decide. 🙂

 

[noushy]

New xeon nehalems... Gainestown

Nano, not much is known about the naming structure, if you found it, more power to you. Also, the desktop nehalem chips (core i7) are back to 3digit naming system. Similar to the old pentium d chips. I would assume they will use the same for the new xeons as well. Check your references, if you are right, great. They say there will be a six core version as well, like the recently introduced X74xx series. Anyways, most of the information out there right now is geared towards desktops, the xeon stuff has been slow to come out for a while. Again, if you have info, lets have it. I am always interested. I happen to be part of intel's developer circle, and have not seen much posted on their web site either. Remember that when apple released the latest macpro machines, they had xeon chips that were not yet available to the public, especially the 3.2 chip. I would not be surprised if there are models that will initially be apple specific, especially faster speeds (like 3.0, 3.2, and 3.4) which seems to be missing from this info.

Intel Workstation & Server Processors 2009 (Xeon)Tylersburg
Processor Speed Cache TDP Memory Sockets Platform Price
W5580 3.20GHz 8MB 130W 1333MHz 2 Workstation $1600 vs $1279 for the 3.20GHz Harpertown
X5570 2.93GHz 8MB _95W 1333MHz 2 ___Server___ $1386 vs $1022 for the 3.00GHz Harpertown
X5560 2.80GHz 8MB _95W 1333MHz 2 ___Server___ $1172 vs $797 for the 2.80GHz Harpertown
X5550 2.66GHz 8MB _95W 1333MHz 2 ___Server___ $958
E5540 2.53GHz 8MB _80W 1066MHz 2 ___Server___ $744 -› vs $797 for the 2.80GHz Harpertown
E5530 2.40GHz 8MB _80W 1066MHz 2 ___Server___ $530
E5520 2.26GHz 8MB _80W 1066MHz 2 ___Server___ $373
E5506 2.13GHz 4MB _80W _800MHz 2 ___Server___ $266
E5504 2.00GHz 4MB _80W _800MHz 2 ___Server___ $224
E5502 1.86GHz 4MB _80W _800MHz 2 ___Server___ $188
L5520 2.26GHz 4MB _60W 1066MHz 2 ___Server___ $530
L5506 2.13GHz 4MB _60W _800MHz 2 ___Server___ $423
W3570 3.20GHz 8MB 130W 1333MHz 1 Workstation $999 vs $1600 for the DP-enabled model
W3540 2.93GHz 8MB 130W 1066MHz 1 Workstation $562 vs $1386 for the DP-enabled model
W3520 2.66GHz 8MB 130W 1066MHz 1 Workstation $284 vs $958 for the DP-enabled model

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

No, the exact name hasn't been disclosed, and it keeps changing. Nehalem to Gainestown to Gainestown-EP, to Xeon/Tylersburg... I was using the description/naming from the Intel Roadmap '09 from Tom's Hardware. Simplified perhaps. All the different names used in the articles are getting a little confusing. 😛

I recall reading somewhere we'd only see 4 core parts initially. The wiki Nehalem page supports this, as it lists the Gainestown to use 4 cores, and release Q1. The release date was changed at least once. (I've found the references to be informative).

As far as pricing on the E5462, I was referring to the initial price at release ($851). Sorry if there was any confusion. 😱

At some point Apple indicated that it would use DDR3 1333MHz ECC, so that restricts the possible parts used. Then based on cost, it seems the most likely candidate would be the $958 X5550. I would imagine they wouldn't pay quite this much do to their purchase volume. But to jump to $1172 for the 2.8GHz X5560, it doesn't seem that Apple could squeeze these in at or near the current pricing. Say $3000 max. Even with their discounts and statement of reducing their margins. 🙁

As for parts that exceed 3.2GHz, I've seen nothing.

I keep looking, and hopefully more information will be available soon. 🙂

 

[Umbongo]

Articles on Nehalem (Bloomfield) performance for those interested:

anandtech
VR-Zone
X-bit labs
The Tech Report

 

[RhymeAnimal]

So, let's hypothetically say that the new core i7 Mac Pro is announced at MacWorld in January.

What's a good estimate for the actual "street date", or shipping date? Does Apple usually take a while between announcement and shipping?

BTW, I had my finger on the trigger to buy the current MacPro 3.2GHZ yesterday, when macrumors revealed that the core i7 will specialize in video encoding (I do an incredible amount of encoding for my work). Good timing for that article.

Thanks everyone, I love this message board.

 

[m1stake]

I would expect it to be available in some capacity the day of the announcement, which you can bet won't be at MacWorld. Mac Pros aren't Apple's huge money maker. Hope they release in January as my computer spent about a minute making strange scratching noises for the first time before it booted correctly. Very weird, hopefully it will hold out so I don't have to put in a new IDE hard disk for two or three months of use.

At some point Apple indicated that it would use DDR3 1333MHz ECC

While it seems like an easy inference to make, it is just an inference.

 

[zer0tails]

please don't flame 😛 But if the new Nehalem mac pros utilize new technology such as DDR3 ram instead of fb-dimms, and the nehalem architecture is fundamentally different from the penryn, will this render the current octocore mac pros obsolete?

I purchased my octo for two main reasons: I needed a machine at the time for work, and with the intention that I would get 5 years of life at least for this machine considering its price.

I know some would suggest upgrading when the nehalem come out, but considering I just purchased it, plus the cost of at least $1,000 to upgrade makes that option unappealing to me.

any thoughts from the more experienced mac gurus here?

 

[Umbongo]

please don't flame 😛 But if the new Nehalem mac pros utilize new technology such as DDR3 ram instead of fb-dimms, and the nehalem architecture is fundamentally different from the penryn, will this render the current octocore mac pros obsolete?

I purchased my octo for two main reasons: I needed a machine at the time for work, and with the intention that I would get 5 years of life at least for this machine considering its price.

I know some would suggest upgrading when the nehalem come out, but considering I just purchased it, plus the cost of at least $1,000 to upgrade makes that option unappealing to me.

any thoughts from the more experienced mac gurus here?

They have more performance for a similar price so for professional applications they should save you some time if you are relient on the processor. So it all depends on how you value your time.

It will happen every time new Mac Pros come out, new architecture or not.
The move from 4 to 8 cores gave more overall processing power than the current Mac Pros to Nehalem will. Mac Pro will probably continue to gain ~15% performance over previous generations with core count increasing as time goes on. Unless AMD can push Intel to make more drastic increases.

 

[m1stake]

please don't flame 😛 But if the new Nehalem mac pros utilize new technology such as DDR3 ram instead of fb-dimms, and the nehalem architecture is fundamentally different from the penryn, will this render the current octocore mac pros obsolete?

Hardly. While I am definitely one of those early adopters and speed freaks that you hear about, when it really comes down to it, it doesn't make a huge difference. Of course I don't crunch or do any heavy lifting computer wise. But no, your computer will not start feeling slow overnight.

My G4 is pretty fast as long as I don't play videos. Yes it's obsolete, but it feels about as skippy as my decommissioned iMac G5. While your computer is objectively old almost as soon as you walk out of the store with it, it's subjectively fast until you experience something much, much, faster.

In short, I wouldn't worry about it.

Unless AMD can push Intel to make more drastic increases.

Remember when AMD performance made Intel look like a joke? God it's been a while.

 

[liquid stereo]

I crunch numbers

As a coder (scientific simulation, massively parallel via MPI) I have no problems purchasing the current MacPro.

Why? My large jobs (200+ CPUs) are run on IBM POWER.
The improvement to the new architecture looks to be 25-40%. For me that's really nothing on an 8-CPU machine.

Hardly. While I am definitely one of those early adopters and speed freaks that you hear about, when it really comes down to it, it doesn't make a huge difference. Of course I don't crunch or do any heavy lifting computer wise. But no, your computer will not start feeling slow overnight.

My G4 is pretty fast as long as I don't play videos. Yes it's obsolete, but it feels about as skippy as my decommissioned iMac G5. While your computer is objectively old almost as soon as you walk out of the store with it, it's subjectively fast until you experience something much, much, faster.

In short, I wouldn't worry about it.



Remember when AMD performance made Intel look like a joke? God it's been a while.

 

[ekwipt]

Hardly. While I am definitely one of those early adopters and speed freaks that you hear about, when it really comes down to it, it doesn't make a huge difference. Of course I don't crunch or do any heavy lifting computer wise. But no, your computer will not start feeling slow overnight.

My G4 is pretty fast as long as I don't play videos. Yes it's obsolete, but it feels about as skippy as my decommissioned iMac G5. While your computer is objectively old almost as soon as you walk out of the store with it, it's subjectively fast until you experience something much, much, faster.

In short, I wouldn't worry about it.



Remember when AMD performance made Intel look like a joke? God it's been a while.

+ don't you think with the release of snow leopard the current Macpro will get a "performance increase" through the optimization of software. I seriously doubt whether anyone really uses the full power of macpros unless they're doing very high end work anyway.

The only thing i believe that's slowing my current macpro down is it's hard drives, which i hope can be overcome next year by faster SSD

 

[nanofrog]

+ don't you think with the release of snow leopard the current Macpro will get a "performance increase" through the optimization of software. I seriously doubt whether anyone really uses the full power of macpros unless they're doing very high end work anyway.

Doesn't the application need to be multi core optimized to really take advantage of the system as well?

I was under the impression Snow Leopard was to help make that easier, not replace it. 😕

The only thing i believe that's slowing my current macpro down is it's hard drives, which i hope can be overcome next year by faster SSD

Wouldn't the limited write cycles, particularly if used in RAID, concern you ATM?