The "Waiting for Nehalem Mac Pros" thread

[noushy]

Performance

The newer microarchitecture speeds tasks up between 2%-20%, and is highly dependent on how well the software takes up multithreading. The memory bus is significantly faster, especially since it is 3 channel and runs ddr3 compared with the present ddr2 800 fbdimms. Overall, it will be an advancement but not an entirely new computing experience. Most of us do not saturate all 8 cores in daily use, and in fact, until the OS is designed to truly distribute tasks that way, it will not make a big difference. Now I am curious to see what the machines look like, their layout, and if apple adopts new display technology (ie displayport), new displays, and hd video support via bluray/hddvd, etc. I am assembling a nehalem machine to replace one of my older quad core2 machines, and that will give me some idea of performance gains. It may be better for apple, because the OS is still more efficient at multitasking/multithreading, and has a better memory manager. Using vista x64 will be about as close an experience to macos.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[sash]

It's that time again. Intel has just "named" their new line, called Core i7. Will you be waiting to pick one up or can you just not wait anymore?

I've thought to buy one as a replacement for G5, but now with all this crisis thing -- not that sure anymore... I would like though.

sash

 

[m1stake]

The newer microarchitecture speeds tasks up between 2%-20%, and is highly dependent on how well the software takes up multithreading. The memory bus is significantly faster, especially since it is 3 channel and runs ddr3 compared with the present ddr2 800 fbdimms. Overall, it will be an advancement but not an entirely new computing experience. Most of us do not saturate all 8 cores in daily use, and in fact, until the OS is designed to truly distribute tasks that way, it will not make a big difference. Now I am curious to see what the machines look like, their layout, and if apple adopts new display technology (ie displayport), new displays, and hd video support via bluray/hddvd, etc.

The memory bus is where we're going to see gains, 1333Mhz DDR3 isn't significantly faster than 800Mhz DDR2 because of the much higher latency, but compared to the FB-DIMMs we should see something as they too have latency issues.

It looks like DisplayPort is the new Apple standard. It's a great standard that allows data besides video through it, I just hope there are some good cards to support it, which is really the issue. It's hard to imagine using DisplayPort over DVI at the moment, because there are practically 0 graphics cards that have it.

Also in line with what Jobs said, I wouldn't expect BluRay this year. Personally I couldn't care less, I don't watch movies or videos much, and if I decide to start I'll just hook up the PS3 to the screen and the computer speakers.

I've thought to buy one as a replacement for G5, but now with all this crisis thing -- not that sure anymore... I would like though.

sash

A very good point. Big business is having some trouble, but they have cash cushions. Medium and small are really in trouble because they rely on short loans for payroll and expenses because of the ebb and flow of money. Without the usual easy credit, those businesses might think twice about buying new hardware.

Myself on the other hand, I've got six grand waiting for the new one in a secondary account.

 

[Courthold]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, may have missed it. As with all upcoming mac hardware updates there's the split of those who can wait and those who really want that shiny new box yesterday, and I fall into the latter category (My current iMac is dying a slow death)

So, my question is this, if I were to purchase a current mac pro model, and then at a later date these new models (with new graphics cards) are released, is it likely I'll be able to buy one of the new graphics card kits and install it into a current-generation mac pro? (I'm thinking mid-range level here, equivalent to the 8800GT now)

My other question was, are we likely to see a price increase from current to the new models?

 

[pyramid6]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, may have missed it. As with all upcoming mac hardware updates there's the split of those who can wait and those who really want that shiny new box yesterday, and I fall into the latter category (My current iMac is dying a slow death)

So, my question is this, if I were to purchase a current mac pro model, and then at a later date these new models (with new graphics cards) are released, is it likely I'll be able to buy one of the new graphics card kits and install it into a current-generation mac pro? (I'm thinking mid-range level here, equivalent to the 8800GT now)

My other question was, are we likely to see a price increase from current to the new models?

Like most things Apple, who knows. When the early 2008s came out with the 8800GTs the older computers could not use them. They can now. [At least this is what I remember.]

Apple doesn't seem to change their prices much, just the hardware. They may not offer the quad option in future models, so the price will go up that way.

 

[G4DP]

Well they put the price of the standard configuration up £50 in the UK. So given the current climate, the prices will increase by a small margin.

The New Mac Pro's will only as good as the software, and as yet we can't even use the first gen or second gen to it's full potential, so it will be a while until anyone with a Mac Pro can truly use it to tit true potential.

Obviously when Snow Leopard is out, we'll all start to see a improvement in the performance.

 

[Umbongo]

My other question was, are we likely to see a price increase from current to the new models?

Well they put the price of the standard configuration up £50 in the UK. So given the current climate, the prices will increase by a small margin.

Yeah the UK price went up £50 in January 2008, US went up $300 from the old base model. $300 was the difference between two 2.66GHz dual core Xeons and two 2.8GHz quad cores. The price difference between the processors that are most likely to feature on the base model (2.66GHz quads) and the current 2.8GHz Xeons is $200 so expect a price increase to $3,000 in the US.

 

[ildondeigiocchi]

4870 isn't good enough at least 4870X2 or GTX280 and must make version for us 08 mac pro users.

 

[m1stake]

4870 isn't good enough at least 4870X2 or GTX280 and must make version for us 08 mac pro users.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Even as someone who buys $500 graphics cards, you're still wrong. Wrong wrong not right.

 

[vmetric]

17 november

Hi guys,

I will become a portuguese switcher as soon as the macpro nehalem is released, and I have just read that intel invited some journalists and analyst to an event in San Francisco on the 17 of this month, to present the new nehalem.

that said, do you think that the new macpro will be out in january?


V

 

[sash]

that said, do you think that the new macpro will be out in january?

I believe, the most common expectation is January-April.

 

[nanofrog]

Hi guys,

I will become a portuguese switcher as soon as the macpro nehalem is released, and I have just read that intel invited some journalists and analyst to an event in San Francisco on the 17 of this month, to present the new nehalem.

that said, do you think that the new macpro will be out in january?


V

The event you mention would only cover the desktop parts. The next Mac Pro will use dual processor server parts, and at last mention, the date was shifted to Q1 '09.

Assuming there aren't any unforeseen snags, sash's estimate seems realistic IMO.

 

[iMacmatician]

The event you mention would only cover the desktop parts. The next Mac Pro will use dual processor server parts, and at last mention, the date was shifted to Q1 '09.

Assuming there aren't any unforeseen snags, sash's estimate seems realistic IMO.

Agreed. I'd say WWDC 2009 is the latest date I can see the new Mac pros coming out. MWSF 2009's optimistic, and if they were announced then, I don't think they'll be available until a while after.

They say there will be a six core version as well, like the recently introduced X74xx series.

I recall reading somewhere we'd only see 4 core parts initially. The wiki Nehalem page supports this, as it lists the Gainestown to use 4 cores, and release Q1. The release date was changed at least once. (I've found the references to be informative).

While Gainestown will be 4 cores, Westmere (32 nm version, Q1 2010) will have 4 or 6 cores (depending on the source).

Hope that clears things up.

 

[nanofrog]

Westmere (32 nm version, Q1 2010) will have 4 or 6 cores (depending on the source).

Hope that clears things up.

Yes, but not just yet.

2010: I'm not waiting that long. My patience has limits.

 

[m1stake]

This G4 has more concrete limits

Luckily I've been playing far too much Fallout on the other tower.

 

[zer0tails]

slightly off topic but quite astounding. In xbench my 2.8 mac pro got a score of 166, compared to 137 for a macbook air.

I thought the gap between them would be farther.

 

[sneezymarble]

slightly off topic but quite astounding. In xbench my 2.8 mac pro got a score of 166, compared to 137 for a macbook air.

I thought the gap between them would be farther.

Run both of them without the disk test but with everything else selected.

 

[ildondeigiocchi]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Even as someone who buys $500 graphics cards, you're still wrong. Wrong wrong not right.

Why am I wrong? People who want to be playing the newest games and are hardcore gamers but love the best of both worlds OSX and XP like to have more graphics options in their Mac Pro.

 

[m1stake]

I got a $1000 check from the treasury, I'll definitely be selling these PC parts and building an i7 platform based on the EVGA X58. Buying in February or so in order to dodge any issues with what is essentially beta hardware (Remember the 790i problems?). By then it'll be interesting to see what Nvidia and ATI ship. It's obvious that ATI can turn a bad card (2900XT) into a good card (4870), as they're based on much of the same thing. Nvidia on the otherhand won't be coming out with anything particularly special unless they plan on bringing something besides DX10.1 support.

Hope zalman comes out with a solid 1366 heatsink before that ;p

 

[nanofrog]

I got a $1000 check from the treasury, I'll definitely be selling these PC parts and building an i7 platform based on the EVGA X58. Buying in February or so in order to dodge any issues with what is essentially beta hardware (Remember the 790i problems?). By then it'll be interesting to see what Nvidia and ATI ship. It's obvious that ATI can turn a bad card (2900XT) into a good card (4870), as they're based on much of the same thing. Nvidia on the otherhand won't be coming out with anything particularly special unless they plan on bringing something besides DX10.1 support.

Hope zalman comes out with a solid 1366 heatsink before that ;p

I've been planning to wait until enough info on the next Mac Pro comes out, then decide to buy or build. ATM, I'm thinking of building it, especially due to the limited internal space issues. I need more than 4 HDD's for RAID.

As far as heatsinks, have you considered Thermaltake and Noctua?

 

[bearcatrp]

I would love to build one but haven't seen any mobo's that are dual socket for the new processors.

 

[nanofrog]

I would love to build one but haven't seen any mobo's that are dual socket for the new processors.

Not just yet, unfortunately.

I'll keep looking though, I couldn't stand it if I missed their release. I want to see the pricing. And benchmarks of course.

 

[m1stake]

I've been planning to wait until enough info on the next Mac Pro comes out, then decide to buy or build. ATM, I'm thinking of building it, especially due to the limited internal space issues. I need more than 4 HDD's for RAID.

I'm doing both. I need to replace the G4, and I know the i7 build will last a lot longer than the current C2Q set up I own now. The Q6700 has a laughably mild overclock on it, but before got it through an Intel employee purchase program, I ran a Q6600 at 3.3Ghz. Waiting for until the employee purchase part of EVGA's website lists the X58 will also give Intel some time to release a B3 or G0 stepping as well. Thinking of adding another HDD to my array when I upgrade as well.

As far as heatsinks, have you considered Thermaltake and Noctua?

I'm not a fan of either of them. I've used them in a few builds for other people and they always seemed kind of cheap. While they could manage the temperatures, they weren't all that much better than the dire Intel stock cooler.

The 9700 keeps my Q6700 at about 65C for Prime95, very cool for a first gen C2Q (Although the slight undervolt probably doesn't hurt ).

 

[nanofrog]

I'm doing both. I need to replace the G4, and I know the i7 build will last a lot longer than the current C2Q set up I own now. The Q6700 has a laughably mild overclock on it, but before got it through an Intel employee purchase program, I ran a Q6600 at 3.3Ghz. Waiting for until the employee purchase part of EVGA's website lists the X58 will also give Intel some time to release a B3 or G0 stepping as well. Thinking of adding another HDD to my array when I upgrade as well.

I wish I could wait that long (stepping), but I'm getting impatient. Not to mention behind due to waiting for things to process. But I need more information to be released before I can decide to buy the next Mac Pro, or build a Hackintosh. OC'ed of course.

I'm not a fan of either of them. I've used them in a few builds for other people and they always seemed kind of cheap. While they could manage the temperatures, they weren't all that much better than the dire Intel stock cooler.

I've usually seen good reviews for the Zalman, Noctua and Thermalrights. (Thermalright was the one I meant to say. Sorry. )

BTW, have you seen anything particularly interesting/dependable for LGA1366 coolers?
I certainly don't want to fry a pair of Xeons.

I do appreciate personal experience rather than just relying on reviews. It always seems more honest, as there's less of an issue of conflicts of interest.

I love the "Customer Review" Sections on newegg.

The 9700 keeps my Q6700 at about 65C for Prime95, very cool for a first gen C2Q (Although the slight undervolt probably doesn't hurt ).

Under volt definitely helps.

 

[m1stake]

To tell the truth I haven't really taken a look at i7 coolers.

I assume you're not new to overclocking, but you've got to try to fry a chip these days. Also, One way to really kill the lifespan of the chip is raising the voltage. So I just OC as far as it will go with the stock voltage. However, I find that a slight under clock won't affect the OC potential too much, and will make the chip happier.