Thinking about switching to a Mac? Think again

[notjustjay]

My first experience on the Mac was very similar to the OP's, back in 2003 when I took the plunge and bought a 12" PowerBook. The first two hours out of the box were frustrating as I dealt with system hangs, beach balls, even a kernel panic ("I thought this was supposed to be rare"??) I could not get it to use DHCP and connect to my home network, for whatever reason. Slowly, the shakedown issues worked themselves out, and five years later the little PB is still in daily service.

At first I kept my PB off to the left and my Dell laptop front and center on my desk. Used the Dell for daily stuff, the PB to play. Over the course of about 8 months I found myself slowly using the Dell less and less until finally I sold it about a year after the PB arrived.

Macs are not without their problems. "It just works" does not apply to every conceivable situation, but most common things really do just work. Like today on my XP box at work, Explorer suddenly decided to crash, leaving me with a blue desktop and nothing else, and I had to reboot. I see this about once a week at work. Only once or twice, ever, on my Mac.

 

[nick9191]

If explorer crashes you should be able to just go windows key-r explorer.exe

 

[Diatribe]

I've had my fair share of hardware problems with Macs, including one episode where it went in and out of the shop 7 times and I went without a computer for 3 months. But if you asked me whether I'd switch back, I'd still tell you no.

You can always have bad luck with a machine and from the 5 I have had only one had problems.

Anyway, I hope you get everything sorted out.

 

[Reason077]

I have a DrayTek 2910 (350USD). I use WP2 and no PC has ever had a problem with it. But with the new MBP, I type in the SSID, then selectin "WPA2 Personal" and type in the password then "Add". After that in the list of networks it is listed as "WPA Personal". It seems to be deciding to switch from WPA2 to WPA as soon as I click Add.

I think it is normal for WPA2 networks to show as "WPA Personal" in the network list in system preferences. I have an Airport Extreme configured for WPA2 only, and it also shows as "WPA Personal". I'm pretty sure it really is using WPA2 as Windows XP machines can't connect to it without the WPA2 patch!

 

[szsiddiq]

When you say 'hardware' you mean 'outside design' right? Because hardware to me is the insides (although semantically it would also cover the outside design).

No, I mean the over all internal and external design...packaging, placement, parts used. Not that Mac notebooks are far behind, but they have a very limited line of laptops in comparison.
And Vaio superiority is definitely apparent to Apple, as they hire Vaio engineers any chance they get. One apparent external design feature stolen from Vaio's: The chicklet style keys

 

[ArthurDaley]

And Vaio superiority is definitely apparent to Apple, as they hire Vaio engineers any chance they get. One apparent external design feature stolen from Vaio's: The chicklet style keys

I have three newish Vaio's (10", 13" and 17") and all feel more modern than the Mac in terms of hardware. Even two years back I felt the MBP was behind in terms of size/weight/feel and since then Sony have kept improving whilst the MBP has remained a 2006 machine.

Problem as I stated before is that XP is 7 years old, I am tired of it. Vista is toxic. OS X is the far superior environment.

It would be beyond belief if Apple did not update the MBP chassis at the next Mac World. It's getting archaic. I decided to live with it because of OS X.

So the choice at the moment is old hardware (OK maybe internals incrementally changed - but imagine a 2 year old Vaio which just kept getting CPU/hdrive upgrades) or an old OS.

And if you take the MBA which is new Apple hardware and compare it to functionality/performance of a lightweight/slim Vaio it's behind!

It reminds me of ~4 years back. The Sony MP3 players (device only) IMO were better than the iPod (more robust, sleaker, better build quality). But the software sucked hard (Sonic Stage) and nowadays my household is buying iPods because the experience is far better. Sonic Stage sucked and no matter how many complaints have been made at Sony over the years (see Amazon MP3 player reviews) Sony did little to improve it.

So IMO Apple are far ahead on the software/overall experience front but the hardware is not first class (you only need to go to apple.com and look at reviews of various hardware to see huge problems with batteries, charges, mice and so on - and just like Sony, Apple do little to improve it as the bad reviews span years with the same comments).

Software matters more and more as time progresses so it is ever more likely that folks will opt for first class software (and associated experience) rather than first class hardware given the choice. Witness the share prices of Sony and Apple the last few years.

 

[mBurns]

I have three newish Vaio's (10", 13" and 17") and all feel more modern than the Mac in terms of hardware. Even two years back I felt the MBP was behind in terms of size/weight/feel and since then Sony have kept improving whilst the MBP has remained a 2006 machine.

Problem as I stated before is that XP is 7 years old, I am tired of it. Vista is toxic. OS X is the far superior environment.

It would be beyond belief if Apple did not update the MBP chassis at the next Mac World. It's getting archaic. I decided to live with it because of OS X.

So the choice at the moment is old hardware (OK maybe internals incrementally changed - but imagine a 2 year old Vaio which just kept getting CPU/hdrive upgrades) or an old OS.

And if you take the MBA which is new Apple hardware and compare it to functionality/performance of a lightweight/slim Vaio it's behind!

It reminds me of ~4 years back. The Sony MP3 players (device only) IMO were better than the iPod (more robust, sleaker, better build quality). But the software sucked hard (Sonic Stage) and nowadays my household is buying iPods because the experience is far better. Sonic Stage sucked and no matter how many complaints have been made at Sony over the years (see Amazon MP3 player reviews) Sony did little to improve it.

So IMO Apple are far ahead on the software/overall experience front but the hardware is not first class (you only need to go to apple.com and look at reviews of various hardware to see huge problems with batteries, charges, mice and so on - and just like Sony, Apple do little to improve it as the bad reviews span years with the same comments).

Software matters more and more as time progresses so it is ever more likely that folks will opt for first class software (and associated experience) rather than first class hardware given the choice. Witness the share prices of Sony and Apple the last few years.

Although I also believe that a MacBook Pro re-design is needed... I'd gladly take a MacBook Pro over any competitors laptop. Plastic and aluminum don't compare. The MacBook Pro design is still light years ahead... it's an absolute classic. Enough said.

 

[Neil321]

The MacBook Pro design is still light years ahead... it's an absolute classic. Enough said.

Agreed

 

[Tivoli]

multiple Finder windows

If you need more then one Finder window just open one and then type cmd+N and there is number two. You can have as many Finder windows as you wan't.
You can drag and drop from one to another.

I like the Finder

 

[szsiddiq]

Although I also believe that a MacBook Pro re-design is needed... I'd gladly take a MacBook Pro over any competitors laptop. Plastic and aluminum don't compare. The MacBook Pro design is still light years ahead... it's an absolute classic. Enough said.

You should take a closer look at the materials used in Vaios, even some of the cheaper ones. most of them dont use plastic, they use magnesium or carbon fiber. have you seen a mac laptop with magnesium or carbon fiber casing? It's light years better than the dent happy aluminum casing in MBPs.

The MBP design hasnt stepped far away from the powerbook designs, and it is horribly outdated, especially when put in front of Vaios in the same price range, I'm sorry.

It reminds me of ~4 years back. The Sony MP3 players (device only) IMO were better than the iPod (more robust, sleaker, better build quality). But the software sucked hard (Sonic Stage) and nowadays my household is buying iPods because the experience is far better. Sonic Stage sucked and no matter how many complaints have been made at Sony over the years (see Amazon MP3 player reviews) Sony did little to improve it.

Before i got an iPod, i bought a sony HD5 and was in love with it. It was smaller than the iPod, had much better sound quality and was pretty slick. There were a few UI quirks, but the main reason i returned it and got an iPod in the end was because SonicStage was such a brutal nightmare. After that, Sony went backwards with their players, and no where with their software.

 

[ArthurDaley]

Tivoli - Thanks for the CMD+N tip.

mBurns - sorry but you are going against reality. I am sitting here with Vaio's and the new MBP. The MBP is well dated (from an aesthetic sense it may well be a design classic). Aside from being heavy/clunky as said before it's uncomfortable to work with compared to the Vaio hardware as it is too deep; the gap between keyboard and front is so long that your wrists plus a n inch or two of arm are forced to dig into the edges or the flat parts of the aluminium. Whereas on the mid-size Vaio's it is perfect such that the wrist joint sits just at the edge which is far more comfortable. I was blown away by the weight of the 13" and 15" MBP's. The dream machine would be OS X running on Sony hardware. Even if Sony offered Ubuntu it would be a success. Instead they offer toxic Vista which is primarily why I bought a MBP. I guess Sony may just ride Vista out till Windows 7 comes out in 2009.

szsiddiq - yeah I have an HD5 plus some others - all gems in terms of hardware but SonicStage is not something you can live with long term!

 

[Neil321]

its uncomfortable to work with compared to the Vaio hardware as it is too deep; the gap between keyboard and front is so long that your wrists plus a n inch or two of arm are forced to dig into the edges or the flat parts of the aluminium.

Why didn't you check it out first before buying it?

 

[aristobrat]

mBurns - sorry but you are going against reality.

Your reality seems to be based on the world of Sony, as if people switching from Dells and HPs have all had the same wonderful laptop experience as you.

Didn't it take Dell until this year to release a 15" notebook that was 1" thick and about the same weight as a MBP? What about HP?

Seems like now that the rest of the pack has caught up with Apple, Apple's ready with a new redesign. How long will it take Dell/HP to match that?

 

[tmelvin]

I've used the Vaio, Dell D830, and HP8430. Of all of those, I liked the ruggedness and look of the HP. I had a chance to use a newer MBP recently, and thought it was better than the HP. I guess I'm a minimalist, in that I like a clean look. Too many buttons and doodads do not a notebook make IMHO...

Plus, it can be made of carbon fiber, magnesium alloy, whatever...but if you turn it on and you're looking at Windows XP or Vista, does it really matter??? It's like taking a brand new Audi, and putting a Ford Pinto engine it...May look good, but if it never runs what the hell good is it?

 

[szsiddiq]

Your reality seems to be based on the world of Sony, as if people switching from Dells and HPs have all had the same wonderful laptop experience as you.

Didn't it take Dell until this year to release a 15" notebook that was 1" thick and about the same weight as a MBP? What about HP?

Seems like now that the rest of the pack has caught up with Apple, Apple's ready with a new redesign. How long will it take Dell/HP to match that?

I don't quite follow your point here...the Ops point wasnt that PCs are all ahead of Macs in terms of hardware. It was simply that there are a lot of merits to Vaio hardware that puts them far ahead of MBP's.

I've used the Vaio, Dell D830, and HP8430. Of all of those, I liked the ruggedness and look of the HP. I had a chance to use a newer MBP recently, and thought it was better than the HP. I guess I'm a minimalist, in that I like a clean look. Too many buttons and doodads do not a notebook make IMHO...

Plus, it can be made of carbon fiber, magnesium alloy, whatever...but if you turn it on and you're looking at Windows XP or Vista, does it really matter??? It's like taking a brand new Audi, and putting a Ford Pinto engine it...May look good, but if it never runs what the hell good is it?

Again, what's your criticism of Vaios (of which the Op is speaking of)? We're all in agreement that OS X kicks butt. The point is that Apple clearly has LOADS of room for improvement in terms of their hardware design. Vaio's don't always get things right, but they do get a lot of it much better than Macs.

I agree, the clean cut minimalist design of Mac laptops is a huge merit. But there's lots that can be improved, and we've been stuck with almost the same form factor for 2 generations worth of machines.

 

[aristobrat]

I don't quite follow your point here...the Ops point wasnt that PCs are all ahead of Macs in terms of hardware. It was simply that there are a lot of merits to Vaio hardware that puts them far ahead of MBP's.

I was just offering a potential reason for why things may be the way things are as the OP seems amazed that Apple hasn't kept up with Sony.

I don't think that Apple feels the need to refresh its design nearly as often as Sony does because even if Apple's designs feel "archaic" against the Sony design, it still feels very refreshing against most of what Dell, HP, and others have to offer.

 

[ArthurDaley]

In response to Neil321's "Why didn't you check it out first before buying it?"

Of course I did. I thought aweful form factor, heavy, clunky, uncomfortable machine.

But with the need to have a better OS and no guarantees Windows 7 will be a big improvement on Vista there was not much of a choice.

 

[Cromulent]

I don't understand. Disks always show in the finder for me (tiger). Disk burning couldn't be easier. Put disk in. Drag files to disk. burn disk.

Using a burn folder is one step too many for a quick burn.

Meh, I disabled it as I found it a pain. I use applications to burn discs (Toast, iTunes, DVD Studio Pro etc) not the the Finder.

 

[czachorski]

"satisfying pace of work" - that is what most folks are saying and was a factor in wishing to switch.

This is a true statement, if you fall into the group who is comfortable following the path that Apple has laid out. Take your camcorder issue - if you absolutely want lossless editing of that footage, you can't do it in iMovie. As soon as you move to FCS, you are working with a much larger learning curve, and you lose that time savings edge - the big time savings are in iMovie. But even if you get your footage into iMovie, you may find it limiting in its capabilities. Many people do. iMovoe was done that way on purpose to maximize the time savings. To some, this is frustrating to no end. To others, the time savings are as liberating as having handcuffs removed after years, because there are few other options out there likes Apple's path.

I happen to fall straight in the middle of that path Apple has laid out. I don't have time to fiddle with stuff until no end, and I just want to get in there and get it done, and enjoy my footage, enjoy the editing, and enjoy the finished product. I don't want the tools to do that to get in my way at all. I have an HDV camcorder just like you. I import footage from the camera right into iMovie in the "large" format (960x540), which is transcoded to AIC. iMovie edits these files in real time, and the process works amazingly well, consistently, fast and easy. Yes, the process is "lossy on paper". But I did real world test about 5 different ways, and I can barely, and I mean barely if at all, see any difference between the footage in iMovie and the raw footage right off the camcorder. I am happy with that, because I am getting the ease of use and time efficiencies that I need. I also love having all my footage at my fingertips ready to play anytime in iMovie.

You might try a few editing projects in the sweet middle part of Apple's path and see if you like it. See if the joy of seeing your video fly together with your own music and photos in a flash is worth the psychological pain that the footage is lossy on paper. Same thing goes for switchers moving to iTunes and iPhoto. Many have trouble letting go of the manual file management and letting these programs take over and do the heavy lifting. Try it for a while, and see if that trade off is worth having instant access to all your photos and music in a simply tool, where all the tools talk to each other and share media: iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb. Give it a try and see if the work flows make up for the other sacrifices. For many they do, and when that happens, that is what makes the platform magical.

Good luck!

 

[chaosbunny]

Personally I can't stand the vaio style. For me it has the elegance of a pimped honda civic.

 

[szsiddiq]

Personally I can't stand the vaio style. For me it has the elegance of a pimped honda civic.

Lol, i agree with that sometimes. But their SZ and TZ lines are quite nice, i think. And Apple knows that sony does somethings really well...and they proceed to steal those aspects and perfect/popularize them...the chicklet style keys par example

 

[Tom~P]

Being new to Macs too - and a MacBook Pro at that - I've also had the WiFi problem; it exists with every router (I run networks so get to see rather a lot of them!). There's a slightly odd - and possibly embarrassing - fix at the moment, which is to use Windows, either via BootCamp or through Parallels/Fusion (? not sure if that's its name?). Anyway, it works perfectly via Windows (including when running virtually!), so it's a Leopard hiccup. I assume Apple will fix it at some point, and soon hopefully as it's preventing my complete switch at the moment...
I was wondering why as a 'migratee' that using virtualisation software hadn't been suggested yet? Particularly using Parallels, it makes the not-exactly-stressful move to OSX even easier as there's always a fallback to known software, and it's almost entirely transparent.

 

[timestoby]

ive never had those problems with xp or vista.you mustn know wot ur doing.

 

[YuriVoorhak]

It just occurred to me that the time for advocating Macs has largely passed.

I get the feeling through a lot of these threads that people buy a Mac nowadays with ridiculous expectations (ie; "I shouldn't have to learn how an entirely new operating system works.") and proceed to troll forums like this one trying to get people to justify their purchase. It's even worse on the iPhone forums. I guess this is the price of popularity?

I switched to Mac 12 years ago, have never looked back, and have never had any problems I couldn't fix myself, or weren't dealt with promptly and professionally by Apple. And it seems that for every forum troll with an entitlement complex, there are thousands of satisfied switchers.

Sorry for what might seem like a non-sequitur post, but these "AHA I GOT MAC AND STILL HAVE PROBLEMS SO THERE" threads have really gotten on my nerves lately. The shift in the Mac community is good for the company, for sure. But I think it leaves some of us pining for the old days.

Maybe I just have a pounding headache.

 

[tmelvin]

It just occurred to me that the time for advocating Macs has largely passed.

I get the feeling through a lot of these threads that people buy a Mac nowadays with ridiculous expectations (ie; "I shouldn't have to learn how an entirely new operating system works.") and proceed to troll forums like this one trying to get people to justify their purchase. It's even worse on the iPhone forums. I guess this is the price of popularity?

I switched to Mac 12 years ago, have never looked back, and have never had any problems I couldn't fix myself, or weren't dealt with promptly and professionally by Apple. And it seems that for every forum troll with an entitlement complex, there are thousands of satisfied switchers.

Sorry for what might seem like a non-sequitur post, but these "AHA I GOT MAC AND STILL HAVE PROBLEMS SO THERE" threads have really gotten on my nerves lately. The shift in the Mac community is good for the company, for sure. But I think it leaves some of us pining for the old days.

Maybe I just have a pounding headache.

Well, I just switched and couldn't be more happy. I'm trying to justify a macbook purchase through work. If not, I'll wait until the updates and get a new one...

This is no different than the car debates that go on. Someone will say they bought car "X", and had nothing but problems, worse car ever made. Meanwhile 10,000 other people own the same car, and love it, and never have issues. Most probably boils down to dumb users...