Thinking of returning my maxed out rMBP

[blow45]

Hey, no problem. I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else who has a windows laptop. I've had many myself and enjoyed most of them. But after having a few Macbook Pros, it's really hard to go back because it just feels like one compromise after another. The build quality is rarely at the same level, or the design is clunky and unappealing, or the display isn't as good, or the trackpad isn't as good. The only other machine that I've seriously considered as an alternative, is the Thinkpad W530 as it has a quad core, and dedicated GPU. But the screen and design (I swear the thinkpad I had a decade ago looked exactly the same) kind of hold me back.

I feel that it's hard to offer a total package that can compete with even the cMBP in terms of form and function. It looks like the Vaio Z3 comes pretty close.

I'm not trying to besmirch any of the competition with my comments. I'm more just lamenting that there isn't a windows laptop that can make my heart swoon like the macbook does, without having serious reservations or compromises.

fair comments. Although to be honest lenovo have changed their design as much as apple has in the imac in 8 or so years, putting it in an aluminum enclosure doesn't really cut it for me, all the more so since that extra glass they added created a lot of problems with the glare. Making hearts swoon is what apple does, and it's sad what they 've done to their desktop os that takes away from it.

My problem is that I ve invested a lot in their platform so far to change at this moment in my life, maybe later. If I could and was buying anew I d definately get a nice upgradeable lenovo, with the keyboard draining system (had an air burned due to spilt water) and the nice rugged industrial design. I also consider their tracking dot, or whatever they call it these days, a far superior technology from ibm. I also like how these babies are rugged work horses that you through about instead of looking for dents in the aluminum. Toshi has some good products too. And ms has done a lot of very good work on windows 8, they've really been building upon the system, fine tuning and improving it.

 

[thekev]

I think going to a pc is a step down, if you are dissatisfied with the lagging problems, then get a classic MBP which does not have this issue (which is a result of the GPU dealing with a lot more pixels).

I would suggest it depends on usage patterns. Specific points of compatibility have kept me with OSX even though a couple programs I use would be better under Windows. Some of the hardware options are more limited on OSX. You choose from what is available, but it's always been that way. I would say that the OP became caught up in the hype/newness of this thing. Typically I buy things once they're 100% stable unless the old thing broke down. Being an early adopter can be annoying unless you can afford to maintain both.

My immediate family uses Windows 7 PC's, and although they aren't BSOD happy like windows was known for, you're absolutely right that they are filled with annoyances of their own.

They both have some things that are irritating. I would suggest you look at some of the clearance and refurbished options from 2011 before making your final choice. You can find one for much much much less. Refurbished is something like $1350 for the lower end of the late 2011 15" models. You could always flip that once the rMBPs mature a bit more. Within 2 years they'll probably eat the rest of the line. Next year they may keep it to the $2200 mark, but after that if it's another softer year for Intel, they may respond by pushing it throughout the rest of the line. Anyway I have no idea how much you need a new computer. As for Windows PCs, they're hit and miss. Read reviews before buying if you go that route. Macs are easy to evaluate in the sense that you see so many reviews and posts on so few models. The other brands don't always have that much information. The guts are 90% the same. It's just important to be aware of any known problems. I'd suggest that with any electronics. Apple has put out many lemon products, especially mac pro peripherals/accessories (look up comments on their RAID cards, they're absolutely terrible).

Windows is a nasty, nasty OS which I was reminded of earlier when I just wanted to use boot camp for some gaming. There are always horrible delays and holdups and anti virus updates to deal with. The fact that it is an absolute necessity to install a third party anti virus on windows does enough to show that Microsoft really need to radically change their OS.

Anyway, sorry for that, I was just reminded of how disgusting windows is and how sub par it is to osx. So yeah, stick with mac.

Unfortunately this is complete drivel. You can pretty much do a weekly scan and some minimal maintenance + don't install everything in site. My suggestions there aren't much different than what I'd say for OSX. Make sure OSX runs its cron scripts occasionally to clean things up. Repair permissions after installing an application. Check activity monitor or top if you're experiencing weird behavior. I still remain on a Mac for a few reasons, but the issues you mention have basically nothing to do with this.

Too bad Windows 8 is absolute *****.

What are you basing it in? If you don't like the ui, much of that can be reverted. When I've used Windows 7, I've turned off Aero and a few other things. The only thing that really annoyed me was the way that certain irritating animations and things aren't convenient to disable and the start key (or whatever it's called can't remember) annoys me, especially when I'm used to finding the command key there.

 

[dallas112678]

I think going to a pc is a step down, if you are dissatisfied with the lagging problems, then get a classic MBP which does not have this issue (which is a result of the GPU dealing with a lot more pixels).

This. Get the 1680x1050 upgrade as well.

 

[arashb]

No PCs that are released now will have any kind of longevity. Windows 8 is around the corner and Microsoft doesn't care about what's already out there, they will release the new software which is aimed for touchscreen devices. Sure you can stay on Windows 7, but that would be contradicting the point of longevity.

Beauty of Macs are that the OS's take in account the hardware that's out. Sure they get dropped after a while but computers are only meant to last a certain amount of time.

It's not like you're seeing 1920x1200 resolution standard on all macbooks even though it has been around for a good number of generations now. So retina displays won't be the standard for a good while, you'll be fine with the top of the line classic MBP. I'm sure it'll last you as long as you want it to.

 

[tillsbury]

Since when was the PC Laptop market this bad?

Since the last time a major Windows version was going to come out. Windows 7 was just Windows Vista fixed up properly. Buying a Windows laptop is always a bad idea just before a major upgrade, particularly with the increases in SSD and IvyBridge going on right now. This time next year, Windows ultrabooks will be far advanced from what they are now, with built-in support for Windows 8 features that will be thought of as necessary. This year's laptops will feel very out of date by comparison.

I remember buying a high-end laptop about a year before XP came out, it was a complete pain upgrading it and the result wasn't anything like as good as the machines that were then available.

So I'd be very dubious about buying a top-end Windows machine right now. In fact, that's exactly the reason I bought the MBPr instead.

 

[Boe11]

fair comments. Although to be honest lenovo have changed their design as much as apple has in the imac in 8 or so years, putting it in an aluminum enclosure doesn't really cut it for me, all the more so since that extra glass they added created a lot of problems with the glare. Making hearts swoon is what apple does, and it's sad what they 've done to their desktop os that takes away from it.

My problem is that I ve invested a lot in their platform so far to change at this moment in my life, maybe later. If I could and was buying anew I d definately get a nice upgradeable lenovo, with the keyboard draining system (had an air burned due to spilt water) and the nice rugged industrial design. I also consider their tracking dot, or whatever they call it these days, a far superior technology from ibm. I also like how these babies are rugged work horses that you through about instead of looking for dents in the aluminum. Toshi has some good products too. And ms has done a lot of very good work on windows 8, they've really been building upon the system, fine tuning and improving it.

I would agree that there's something appealing about the no-nonsense, work-horse approach that thinkpads take. If the W530 came with an IPS display, I may be tempted to go that route. If I'm doing anything serious, I have a mouse hooked up anyways, so the touchpad issue is sort of moot. The last thinkpad I had, I reluctantly used the pointer=button thingy and it's encouraging that they've improved that since. It's just tough to beat the mac trackpad. I haven't really checked out Toshiba's stuff...ever. May have to give them a peek.

 

[whiteonline]

No PCs that are released now will have any kind of longevity. Windows 8 is around the corner and Microsoft doesn't care about what's already out there, they will release the new software which is aimed for touchscreen devices. Sure you can stay on Windows 7, but that would be contradicting the point of longevity.

It' already known that any current Win7 PC is supported for Win8. Hell, even Vista PC's are supported for Win8. And it is not a touchscreen-only OS....that's Win8 RT.

Learn about product before you spew nonsense.

 

[blow45]

I would agree that there's something appealing about the no-nonsense, work-horse approach that thinkpads take. If the W530 came with an IPS display, I may be tempted to go that route. If I'm doing anything serious, I have a mouse hooked up anyways, so the touchpad issue is sort of moot. The last thinkpad I had, I reluctantly used the pointer=button thingy and it's encouraging that they've improved that since. It's just tough to beat the mac trackpad. I haven't really checked out Toshiba's stuff...ever. May have to give them a peek.

oh they have some really good machines:

http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/portege/Z930

http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/tecra/R940/R940-S9440

 

[GoreVidal]

I returned mine. Not a single regret here.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Return it, wait for a month or two, rebuy and see if things are better, if not return and consider alternatives.

 

[arashb]

It' already known that any current Win7 PC is supported for Win8. Hell, even Vista PC's are supported for Win8. And it is not a touchscreen-only OS....that's Win8 RT.

Learn about product before you spew nonsense.

I'm not saying it's not supported. Read before you spew nonsense. I'm saying that the OS is a POS.

It is aimed for touchscreens, I'm not saying it's meant for touchscreens but obviously desktops and laptops weren't their main focus. MS is making the universal OS much more universal in supporting more than just desktops and laptops.

@OP Windows 8 is pushing for EFI devices as well, Macs use EFI but not many PCs have supported this yet. So if you do go on the PC route you should probably find an EFI supported laptop and not the outdated BIOS.

 

[heresjohnny]

Since when was the PC Laptop market this bad?

Unfortunately every time I've looked in the last few years. Too bad.

 

[Pentad]

Windows is a nasty, nasty OS...

Tim, another of your flock needs their Kool-Aid refilled.

 

[ekovalsky]

I am running the DP4 of ML on my 2.6/16/512 rMBP and don't notice any lag at all, with either nvidia or intel GPU in use. I did a fresh install, first thing I did when receiving the rMBP was format and the drive and installing DP4.

I've always opted for less expensive Windows laptops, and know Windows extremely well. For the first time I think the rMBP is worth the extra money. No Windows laptops (maybe excluding some ultra high end workstation models) have a comparable display or similarly powerful GPU for the size/weight. It is also better built with superior cooling - I'm amazed that a 2.6GHz quad core i7 CPU and the respectable Nvidia 650M GPU can run so quietly. The speakers are also much better than anything else out there.

I think the 2.6/16/512 is the best compromise for longevity and value. The 8>16gb upgrade is probably worth $200 since there is no upgrade path. The $600 for 2.3>2.6Ghz and 256>512GB SSD storage makes sense. The upgrades from 2.6>2.7GHz and 512>768Gb seem way too expensive, plus the SSD can be upgraded, in a year or two one could replace the 512Gb with a 768Gb or 1Tb model.

 

[macintoshi]

You do realize you could just SELL the rMBP in two years so you can upgrade to an even better one. Like I said, Mac's have a great resale value.

Since is no repair friendly and has no user replacable items, this sentence is not more true!

 

[bossxii]

I have the base model and absolutly love the performance, the screen and the form factor. It's the best of both worlds (MBP + MBA). I have used this machine for a couple of weeks, and use it for work and home so I have easily used it 60 to 80 hours a week for the past two. I run Google Canary as well, I use Firefox at work on dual 27" displays so it looks fine on Firefox as the resolution is lower. On the laptop I use Canary and have yet to notice any lag. I run Netflix, Youtube and a dozen other media type sites like Vevo for music video's and this thing hasn't missed a beat. I even have been playing some Diablo 3 for the past few days and running at native resolution it's pretty amazing how the game looks and plays. I just hit Act 4 on normal mode and have experience zero issues with this machine.

I admit I was hesitant spending even the $2k on the base model but my fears are now gone and I'm guessing in 6 month or so I'll upgrade the SSD size once the aftermarket ones come out. I had been using a 12' MBA with 8gig/256SSD and more than anything just hate the washed out screen the MBA has. Not to mention the resolution on the MBA needs some seroius help after a glance at the rMBP.

I can promise you one thing, after using this for a few days you will be disappointed going backwards in LCD technology to a non retina/non iPS screen.

 

[schaibaa]

Recount buying a non retina, or stick with the retina.

Windows is a nasty, nasty OS which I was reminded of earlier when I just wanted to use boot camp for some gaming. There are always horrible delays and holdups and anti virus updates to deal with. The fact that it is an absolute necessity to install a third party anti virus on windows does enough to show that Microsoft really need to radically change their OS.

Anyway, sorry for that, I was just reminded of how disgusting windows is and how sub par it is to osx. So yeah, stick with mac.

These posts damage the image of the apple community. The problem here is that Windows and OSX are pretty similar in terms of actual stability/speed/reliability/etc. If you are having all kinds of horrible delays, it has more to do with the way you've setup your windows install than windows itself. OSX may prevent you from screwing it up, but don't blame the OS. It's like blaming the telephone pole for crashing into it.

And the only real reason Mac users have less viruses to worry about is the market share. If OSX gains significant market share, it will be targeted by attackers just as much as Windows.

So... bottom line, your post is absolute rubbish -

 

[GoreVidal]

So... bottom line, your post is absolute rubbish -

Agreed on all accounts.

 

[macintoshi]

let me tell you my path..

bought a 13mbp and returned it, screen too small
bought a 15 mpb and returned it, heard the rMBP were coming
ordered a rMBP when it came out, cancelled order, couldnt wait, needed a unit
bought the new 2012 cMBP with old screen and returned it..
now im ordering a midrange rMBP, and thats going to be the endof it.. indecision clouded my vision, but i saw the light.. heres why..

I have an ipad 3 and retina destroyed any hope of EVER using another screen. Even the highres MBP matte screen made my eyes hurt, looked fuzzy. the regular screen on the cMBP is so bad i dont understand how they are putting them into these units. I TRIED and tried to get used to it. i used it EXTENSIVEly over last week. every time i booted it up i got depressed because of the screen. I went into BB and looked at a rMBP and fell in love all over again. I will unfortunately never be able to go back to a normal screen.

I understand your dilemma and i get the buyers remorse, but as far as im concerned, i will never be happy with anything other than a retina. after all, we are staring at the screen the whole time. ANY other unit, apple or otherwise will never cut it. Would you buy a porsche if the windshield had cracks in it? thats how i feel on any other screen. its sad but true.

good luck.

----------

mdapple. ive used the dell you listed. im not trying to be rude but thats not comparable to the rMBP. it might be a nice alternative, but its not comparable. not an opinion.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...b&model_id=xps-14-l421x&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 his one is more comparable and its even cheaper and has more things in!

 

[jcpb]

I think going to a pc is a step down, if you are dissatisfied with the lagging problems, then get a classic MBP which does not have this issue (which is a result of the GPU dealing with a lot more pixels).

Well... I did this with my first Mac half a decade ago, replacing it with a PC.

+1GB RAM (vs total 640MB in my iBook G4), also DDR2 over DDR1
+VGA port (via included dongle that also has LAN, no adapters required)
+CF slot; SD slot (push-in/out variety, so the SD card goes all the way inside instead of sticking out on MBA/MBP's slots)
+keyboard light (not to be confused with keyboard backlight)
+touchscreen
+screen can be rotated and used in tablet mode
+hardware WiFi power switch
+lighter
+smaller
+double capacity battery and dock options

~1Seg TV tuner (only works in Japan, obviously)
~fingerprint scanner (never used it)
~no change to storage
~trackpoint nub and small mouse buttons vs trackpad
~same base CPU speed, but I'm fairly sure there is a difference between a PowerPC G4 processor and an Intel A110

-168 pixels vertically
-smaller screen by a lot: 7" (5.6" minus bezel) vs 12"
-internal ODD
-one USB2 port instead of two on the iBook
-FW400
-cramped keyboard
-Vista HP

It was a sidegrade in most respects, come to think of it. Losing OS X wasn't a big deal at the time. Looking back at it, no it's not enjoyable

The MBPR screen pretty much ruined me in terms of viable PC options, heh.

 

[Queen6]

Since you are thinking about the price tag all the time, I would just go for the 2.3/256/8 base model.

You don't need more than 8gb of ram for doing the tasks that you do right now and in the future either. The difference between the 2.3ghz and the high end cpu are negligible. Most will agree that it ain't worth the money. The same argument can actually also be used for the 768gb. It is in my opinion not worth spending $1100 for 512gb of extra storage. And what kind of difference is 512gb really going to make. It's still not enough to store your whole collection of music, movies, games and pictures on it.

I am going to get flamed for this but I think anything more than 2.3/256/8 is just a waste of money. Getting 512gb SSD for $600 or 16gb RAM for $200 is debatable but external storage is cheap and it is unlikely you'll ever max out 8gb of RAM. And even if you do I highly doubt you will notice the page outs.

This man is right on the money; I would live with the annoyances, Mountain Lion will fix many of the graphical anomalies, return the maxed out rMBP and settle with the base model and a USB drive for a year. Percentage wise you will get a far better return on the base rMBP, Apple`s notorious mark up on high end options will just be a dramatic loss, as more capable CPU/GPU combinations roll out over the next 3.4 years.

This is exactly what I have done, I thought long and hard, trying to justify buying a high end rMBP. Predominantly the bulk of the additional cost is in the SSD, the difference in performance between 2.3, 2.6 & 2.7 is marginal at best and unless you can moniterize the time savings the faster chips offer little in real world, day to day use.

Same as the OP as a rule I buy a high end Mac and use it for several years, however just as the rMBP is setting new paradigm`s I must also evaluate my usage and purchasing; high end systems are presently priced unattractively, SSD`s will reduce in price and Intel`s relentless Tick-Tock makes ever greater strides in performance every cycle, especially the GPU. The 2012 maxed out rMBP will simply be overshadowed by the base model of 2016, if not sooner and the residual value of the 2012 will be resultantly poor. Cost aside software will mature, and hardware will develop aggressively as more and more companies switch to high definition display `s in thinner faster machines.

As for alternative, you will need to wait at least a year for the PC market to react, produce and equal Apple, realistically there is nothing out there today that "fits the bill" Personally I am happy with my base rMBP, my usage and choice of app`s doesn't bring me into conflict with the Retina although it`s still early days. Once the rMBP moves to Haswell I will likely upgrade, once again for a base model

 

[TLewis]

Based on what I've said, and your own experience with rMBP, should I return it and go for a PC laptop instead? If so, which one do you think is closest to mac in terms of slim, light and powerful build quality?

I have already discounted buying a non-retina Mac btw, because I find I really don't want to

Thoughts appreciated

As others have said, there's probably nothing out there that's going to make you happy:

• Again, as others have also said, your best bet is a high-end 2012 MBP with the 1680x1050 display, even though a high-end configuration might be more expensive than the rMBP. Yes, it's non-retina, but many of the parts can be upgraded/fixed by skilled users, unlike the rMBP. In terms of upgradeability/fixability, the non-retina MBP arguably has a better longevity than the rMBP. Aside from the non-retina display, the only other downsides are the non-asymmetric fans and the extra pound or so in weight. See the ifixit teardown here: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Unibody-Mid-2012-Teardown/9515/1
• With the rMBP, the battery is glued down, the RAM is not upgradeable, and the trackpad is inaccessible (for replacement). Only the SSD is upgradeable, and that uses a proprietary (read: expensive) form factor. If the battery needs to be replaced, you have to send the rMBP to Apple, at a cost of around $200 (US customers), and you'll likely be without the rMBP for days (and note that Applecare doesn't cover battery replacement due to normal usage -- only battery defects). See the ifixit teardown here: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Display-Mid-2012-Teardown/9462/1
• Unless you're doing something that needs the extra resolution of the retina display, a non-retina MBP should be perfectly usable for some years. So what if retina displays are the future? That hasn't obsoleted all existing software. Non-retina displays are going to be around for quite some time, because most PC users aren't going to pay retina prices, and so software will have to support both retina and non-retina displays (this is true for the PC, and somewhat true for the Mac). By the time retina displays become mainstream (3-5+ years would be my guess), it'll be time to buy a new laptop anyway.
• On the other hand, the rMBP is pretty cool.

 

[rrm998]

Based on what I've said, and your own experience with rMBP, should I return it and go for a PC laptop instead? If so, which one do you think is closest to mac in terms of slim, light and powerful build quality?

I have already discounted buying a non-retina Mac btw, because I find I really don't want to

Thoughts appreciated

it's not bee reviewed yet but Sony has the new Vaio S 15.5 which has a 1920x1080 IPS display. It's thicker than the rMBP but actually a bit lighter. The carbon fiber body won't feel as sturdy as the Apple metal body (based on my experience with the Z2).

 

[SDAVE]

Why would you spend that much money if all you're doing is spreadsheets???

 

[Panini]

Like you said, the rMBP is the best laptop in the market right now. The problem is the laptop market itself - anything you buy now is not future proof with the rate at which laptops are advancing.

It;s like what the android smartphone industry was like 6-12 months ago, (and still now, to some extent) you buy the best thing on the market one day, and before a few months go by your device is suddenly mid-range. Wait a little more, and your phone loses support for the latest software.

If I were you, I would recommend getting a 13" MBA until all these supposedly ground-breaking advancements come through, then once you think things have started to stabilise a bit, go for the best model available (which will probably still be a mac )