But you've got pros that need 32GB positing in the thread here that they get new computers every year. So it doesn't sound like that segment of pros does upgrading -- they just buy new computers on the regular. So it really sounds like horses for courses when it comes to pros and the need to upgrade/replace parts.
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This is how laptop upgradeability should be
- Thread starter bigpoppamac31
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My 2012 MacBook Air came with a SSD (standard) and 8GB of soldered-in RAM. It's 5+ years later and I don't feel like it needs an upgrade in order to run better.
Yes but you're comparing an Air to a Pro. They're not intended for the same audience.
Why that? I honestly have difficulty understanding it. Its like going to a company that makes an excellent sedan and loudly demand that they also make a pickup truck. Well, they don't want to make a pickup truck. Maybe they don't believe in pickup trucks. Maybe they don't see money in selling pickup trucks.
I can perfectly accept that some people really need a behemoth of a laptop. What really I can't understand is why Apple absolutely has to make one. Its not a profitable business to them and not their vision.
Because if Apple were to make slotted LPDDR RAM it would be obviously Apple proprietary RAM that no-one else makes...
P.S. And again, third party RAM often costs less because it uses cheaper chips. LDPPR3 is expensive.
I bought third party ram and SSD for my 2011 MBP. Didn't feel cheap to me.
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They upgrade the computer more often cause they now can't upgrade parts. More money in Apple's pocket.
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But it used to be more their vision and they did used to make genuinely "Pro" laptops and desktops.
There's no data anywhere to prove that soldered RAM has a smaller failure rate than RAM that is not soldered. Their might be some data somewhere, but whoever has it has certainly not shared it with the world.
I would be willing to bet that the number of instances where a RAM slot connector has been involved in RAM component failure is not statistically significant enough to save Apple enough money to list as a separate line item in their Annual Report to shareholders.
The main, and most likely, only reasons the RAM is soldered on now has a lot more to do with thinness and lower latency than it has on any other potential fringe "suport cost" benefits. ... and the thinness reason is kinda stretching it, TBH. With their supposed design prowess, they could have found a way to mount RAM slots on the edge of the logic board, side-by-side without compromising thinness. I suspect it was the lower latency that was the driving force behind moving to soldered RAM.
'Forcing" (I really hate to use that word here, btw, as everybody still has a choice) customers to purchase upgrades at time of initial purchase is another possible fringe "benefit" for Apple, but like the move to soldered RAM, there's no data to support that conclusion out in the public ... just assumptions.
I would be willing to bet that the number of instances where a RAM slot connector has been involved in RAM component failure is not statistically significant enough to save Apple enough money to list as a separate line item in their Annual Report to shareholders.
The main, and most likely, only reasons the RAM is soldered on now has a lot more to do with thinness and lower latency than it has on any other potential fringe "suport cost" benefits. ... and the thinness reason is kinda stretching it, TBH. With their supposed design prowess, they could have found a way to mount RAM slots on the edge of the logic board, side-by-side without compromising thinness. I suspect it was the lower latency that was the driving force behind moving to soldered RAM.
'Forcing" (I really hate to use that word here, btw, as everybody still has a choice) customers to purchase upgrades at time of initial purchase is another possible fringe "benefit" for Apple, but like the move to soldered RAM, there's no data to support that conclusion out in the public ... just assumptions.
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While it was great that we could upgrade the ram in our old macbook pros.
You can see why it isn't possible now with a thinner chassis envelop, everything is soldered on due to space constraints.
although it appears the SSD has been spared so far, not confirmed on the 15inch model yet.
I can't see apple going back from this....
You can see why it isn't possible now with a thinner chassis envelop, everything is soldered on due to space constraints.
although it appears the SSD has been spared so far, not confirmed on the 15inch model yet.
I can't see apple going back from this....
This is how you can tell that soldered memory has to to with padding Apple's bottom line:
Why does the Mac Mini have soldered memory?
Clearly, neither thinnest nor power consumption is much of a concern.
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Really? Dell doesn't seem to have this problem.
Why does the Mac Mini have soldered memory?
Clearly, neither thinnest nor power consumption is much of a concern.
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Really? Dell doesn't seem to have this problem.
well with soldering, you don't need to provide a mounting system for easy removal, with non removable ram, you can put it anywhere.
Do Dell do a laptop with the same hardware specs as apple and with the same thickness.
I don't believe they do at this present time
Do Dell do a laptop with the same hardware specs as apple and with the same thickness.
I don't believe they do at this present time
Lower latency. Those mini's need all the performance boost that they can get, thanks to the crappy CPU in them.
Exactly. It would be like putting soldered ram in the Mac Pro.
Is ram soldered in the iMac? I know the 27" is user upgradeable ram.
Very debatable. There are parts you can hang on to for a long time that do not need to be thrown away or recycled.
I'm currently on Skype with my mother and she complains her iPad mini is feeling slow. It was fast last year, same OS 9. What happened? A few software updates later and Apple has screwed a perfectly useful system. This is one of the costs of having a sealed up system and an App Store that makes it hard for a 65 year old woman to rewind app versions. Sadly, that's what it takes for their execs to buy $400 healing pyramids during a presentation.
Go to the Mac Pro forum and look at how many people have systems that are completely usable in Windows 10 with APIs that are faster, newer and more powerful than anything on macOS, but lo...Apple doesn't want them to install Sierra. Upgrade your computer first...and the only choice they have is a three year old overpriced trashcan that has also become sealed up and hard to upgrade.
The ram they use is different. its is DDR4, so the MBP uses more efficient ram, so the specs aren't the same.
So from the same token, Research Failed...
so the voltage is the same, but isn't the latency better on LPDDR3?
And the LPDDR3 is designed for a laptop and should have less heat output than DDR4
I asked you if there was a dell, with the same hardware specs as apple... you told me look at Dell XPS15
Dell doesn't use the same hardware as Apple, similar but not the same...
Of cause there is not going to be a Dell laptop with exactly the same hardware specs as an Apple laptop.
Also, do you want to show me some research about latency and heat?
Wrong, most users complain about their PC being slow after several years, a very common advice is upgrading ram and from hdd to ssd.
Source for your contention that most complain about being slow? (For pc's I believe it). And source for the contention that most people actually upgrade their devices?
Personal experience as an IT professional. Likewise, please show me source about most users never upgrading their machines.
No need, i asked if the there was a Dell with the same hardware as apple, and you proved to me that where wasn't.
What apple does is up to them, they re the ones who design it and build it.
Exactly. And many people like me would rather do it themselves to save money. It's cheaper for me to buy the parts and do it myself to save paying some tech guy to do it.
Indeed, 8GB Ram is like $30 bucks nowadays and 16GB $60-70, easy upgrade to boost life of your machine. But for example, my mom's MBP from 2013, a perfectly fine machine has soldered 4gb ram which is now obsolete. I won't be able to boost that machine's overall health now, thanks to planned obsolescence.
I find this statement to be very arguable. Let's just concentrate on desktops here. Sure, Apple used to have user-replaceable RAM and storage. But was it because they cared about upgradeability or because of other reasons? First of all, there were no SSDs or low-power RAM variants back then, so going proprietary wouldn't make much sense for Apple. Second, the state of computer technology was very different. RAM used to be very expensive and going from 1GB to 2GB was of course a very sizeable difference. Nowadays computers come with excessive amounts of RAM per default. Third, Apple never used fast GPUs in their laptops — they always opted for mid-tier graphics with sub 50Watt TDP. Not only that, but they also aggressively pushed towards low-power CPUs and integrated GPUs — a trend which we observe with Apple for almost ten years now! In fact, the 2016 15" MBP is the first MacBook ever — if I am not mistaken — to use a GPU that is marketed as professional (but of course, its still a mid-tier GPU).
Overall, I just don't see how Apple ever catered to the upgradeability and/or workstation crew. Their laptops were always less upgradeable than most of other contemporary laptops (where you often had even replaceable CPUs), usually offered less ports and were quick to remove legacy features and never included workstation-level performance or stability components. Apple always focused on mobility and battery, while balancing performance. Frankly, I don't see a single difference between Apple's laptop design ideology between now and four or even eight years ago. Its all continuation of the same logic.
lol
Is there a Ford that has the same specs as a Chevy?
Is there Pepsi with the same ingredients as Coca-Cola?