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Nowadays computers come with excessive amounts of RAM per default.

Wrong, Apple still sells 4GB mac mini, and had been selling until very recently macbook airs and macbook pros with 4gb as well. Apple in general puts bare minimum RAM in their machines which don't hold up after 2-3 years.

Remember, Macs used to have about a 10 year lifespan, and now Apple is literally making fun of people using a 5-year old machine. Apple wants planned obsolescence and for people to buy machines more frequently.
 
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I find this statement to be very arguable. Let's just concentrate on desktops here. Sure, Apple used to have user-replaceable RAM and storage. But was it because they cared about upgradeability or because of other reasons? First of all, there were no SSDs or low-power RAM variants back then, so going proprietary wouldn't make much sense for Apple. Second, the state of computer technology was very different. RAM used to be very expensive and going from 1GB to 2GB was of course a very sizeable difference. Nowadays computers come with excessive amounts of RAM per default. Third, Apple never used fast GPUs in their laptops — they always opted for mid-tier graphics with sub 50Watt TDP. Not only that, but they also aggressively pushed towards low-power CPUs and integrated GPUs — a trend which we observe with Apple for almost ten years now! In fact, the 2016 15" MBP is the first MacBook ever — if I am not mistaken — to use a GPU that is marketed as professional (but of course, its still a mid-tier GPU).

Overall, I just don't see how Apple ever catered to the upgradeability and/or workstation crew. Their laptops were always less upgradeable than most of other contemporary laptops (where you often had even replaceable CPUs), usually offered less ports and were quick to remove legacy features and never included workstation-level performance or stability components. Apple always focused on mobility and battery, while balancing performance. Frankly, I don't see a single difference between Apple's laptop design ideology between now and four or even eight years ago. Its all continuation of the same logic.

Well you're referring primarily to the Intel era (which we're still in). But I'm referring back to the PPC era. Just look at when the introduced the G3 tower with it's fold down side door. A user could upgrade or replace anything inside. Even so with the old Mac Pro tower. Not so with the "trash can" version. Also I think Apple could have gone proprietary back then if they wanted to but they chose the sensible option of using industry standards for ram, HDD/SSD etc. Also yes Apple never used the high end graphics in it's products but (at least for it's towers) the user could install a high end graphics card (or multiple) if they wanted to. Apple at least gave us the option which is my point. Instead of taking away options provide us more.
 
Indeed, 8GB Ram is like $30 bucks nowadays and 16GB $60-70, easy upgrade to boost life of your machine. But for example, my mom's MBP from 2013, a perfectly fine machine has soldered 4gb ram which is now obsolete. I won't be able to boost that machine's overall health now, thanks to planned obsolescence.
Out of curiosity, what changed in your Mom's workflow from 2013, 2014, and 2015 to where 4GB is no longer sufficient, especially with the memory compression that OS X has been doing over the last few releases?

Also, does her MBP have a SSD in it? I've used older Airs (2009, 2010) with only 2GB of RAM and when they start paging out memory to the SSD, it's nowhere near the suckfest that it is when paging happens on a traditional HDD.
 
Wrong, Apple still sells 4GB mac mini, and had been selling until very recently macbook airs and macbook pros with 4gb as well. Apple in general puts bare minimum RAM in their machines which don't hold up after 2-3 years.

Remember, Macs used to have about a 10 year lifespan, and now Apple is literally making fun of people using a 5-year old machine. Apple wants planned obsolescence and for people to buy machines more frequently.

Exactly which is again a money grab for Apple. It's no wonder they have such a huge cash hoard.
 
Out of curiosity, what changed in your Mom's workflow from 2013, 2014, and 2015 to where 4GB is no longer sufficient, especially with the memory compression that OS X has been doing over the last few releases?

Also, does her MBP have a SSD in it? I've used older Airs (2009, 2010) with only 2GB of RAM and when they start paging out memory to the SSD, it's nowhere near the suckfest that it is when paging happens on a traditional HDD.

Newer OSX releases being heavier with more features and being able to work better with more RAM. Also, heavily undermined and underrated is web browsing, having multiple tabs is common when shopping or researching, a machine easily bogs down in performance. The complexity of web pages keeps increasing every year. Performance when editing Photos and Videos which keeps increasing in resolution, always benefits from more RAM. Every year, developers make apps more complex, and RAM-hungry.
 
Newer OSX releases being heavier with more features and being able to work better with more RAM. Also, heavily undermined and underrated is web browsing, having multiple tabs is common when shopping or researching, a machine easily bogs down in performance. The complexity of web pages keeps increasing every year. Performance when editing Photos and Videos which keeps increasing in resolution, always benefits from more RAM. After 3 years, developers make apps more complex, and RAM-hungry.
Right, right, trust me -- I get the generality of the issue ... I've been working in enterprise-sized IT shops since the late '90s... Was just curious about the specifics of your mom's workflow on her MBP and what specifically had changed. I have quite a few friends and family rocking 4GB Macs that aren't complaining about them feeling slow.
 
Right, right, trust me -- I get the generality of the issue ... I've been working in enterprise-sized IT shops since the late '90s... Was just curious about the specifics of your mom's workflow on her MBP and what specifically had changed. I have quite a few friends and family rocking 4GB Macs that aren't complaining about them feeling slow.

Right, and you are right SSD mitigates the RAM issue to some extent, but this is a 3-year old machine, what's going to happen at the 5, 6, 7 year mark? It's just sad that we have to live with something that's now soldered that used to be upgradable and by just a few bucks. All for 1mm more thinness.
 
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I didn't know dell had the tb3 and the fastest ssds on the market.
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Right, and you are right SSD mitigates the RAM issue to some extent, but this is a 3-year old machine, what's going to happen at the 5, 6, 7 year mark? It's just sad that we have to live with something that's now soldered that used to be upgradable and by just a few bucks. All for 1mm more thinness.
Most first gens are 3 year machines but people use them longer.
 
lol

Is there a Ford that has the same specs as a Chevy?

Is there Pepsi with the same ingredients as Coca-Cola?

None of those apply, i asked if dell had had a laptop with the same hardware specs and same size.

And they don't,

I still think the Macbook pro is better than the Del XPS 15, there is TB3, i wouldn't be surprised if the SSD is faster than the Dell, it looks a lot better than the Dell, and i wouldn't be surprised if the battery life is better than the dell

At the end of the day, the macbook pro is a laptop, we know why apple limited the ram to 16gb, they told us, it was due to battery life.

Apple have chosen to follow the path of integrating fixing most of their components via soldering.

Its a great way to get people to spend a bit more, to up spec the machine... and thats why apple have billions lying around.
 
Well it looks like everyone is scooping up last gen MBPs. There are no 15" and only one 13" refurb models on the Apple Store (Canada). Hopefully more will show up and I'll grab one myself. This doesn't surprise me as people want the I/O as TB/USB-C is not mainstream yet. Maybe in a couple years it will be but not yet. You can't even plug in an iPhone 7 into the latest MBP to sync or charge without an adapter. And they only came out a month apart of each other. How stupid is that? o_O
 
I'm trying to remember the last time I used a USB cable to connect my iPhone to my MacBook. I charge it overnight on my nightstand. Backups and restores are done over WiFi. Everything syncs over WiFi. Everywhere I travel has USB-A chargers either in the wall sockets or built-into lamps and stuff (hotels) for charging. Be cool if they included a USB-C to Lightning cable with the iPhone, but I wouldn't have much use for it.
 
I have a 2012 rMBP. Have made great use of this machine. Apple replaced the logic board after it failed and I added a 1TB SSD from OWC. It meets my needs in every way but one - battery life.

Unfortunately, I rarely get much more than an hour out of the battery at this point. I looked at iFixit and it does not appear to be something I want to tackle on my own. Checked with the Apple Store and they quoted me $498 to replace the battery. Are you kidding me?

If it wasn't for the battery I would be perfectly content with this machine. I can't see replacing the battery at that price as it is a 4 year old computer that has already had the logic board replaced once. Can't see upgrading as the only thing I would be upgrading for is better battery life. Definitely will be rethinking my next purchase in regards to the MacBook Pro line.
 
I'm trying to remember the last time I used a USB cable to connect my iPhone to my MacBook. I charge it overnight on my nightstand. Backups and restores are done over WiFi. Everything syncs over WiFi. Everywhere I travel has USB-A chargers either in the wall sockets or built-into lamps and stuff (hotels) for charging. Be cool if they included a USB-C to Lightning cable with the iPhone, but I wouldn't have much use for it.

I connect mine via cable every night to do an encrypted backup to iTunes. That's the only way to ensure "everything" on that thing gets backed up because iCloud backups don't get it all.
 
Unfortunately, I rarely get much more than an hour out of the battery at this point. I looked at iFixit and it does not appear to be something I want to tackle on my own. Checked with the Apple Store and they quoted me $498 to replace the battery. Are you kidding me?

Why this expensive? Did they give any reason? Battery replacement normally has a fixed cost of $199.
 
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Apple used to care about those pro users but no longer. They have forsaken the pro market which Apple used to be big on.
Yea they are making Macbook Pros for the non pro users now but are still charging pro user prices.
 
Most users will never upgrade their machines. I'm happy Apple doesn't make my machine worse so that a tiny percentage of people can perform such upgrades.

That's just plain wrong. I am sure a large share of Unibody MBPs users have at some point in time added RAM and/or swapped the harddrive for an SSD.
That and the fact that the new MBPs are limited to 16GB RAM makes them a lot less 'future proof' than the old ones.
(even a 2011 MBP can handle 16GB, hence so many of them still in use today!)
 
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Wrong, Apple still sells 4GB mac mini, and had been selling until very recently macbook airs and macbook pros with 4gb as well. Apple in general puts bare minimum RAM in their machines which don't hold up after 2-3 years.

Remember, Macs used to have about a 10 year lifespan, and now Apple is literally making fun of people using a 5-year old machine. Apple wants planned obsolescence and for people to buy machines more frequently.

1.4GHz Processor
500 GB Storage

  • 1.4GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
  • 4GB memory
  • 500GB hard drive1 (5400rpm)
  • Intel HD Graphics 5000

Bolded the insulting parts, you can't make this up guys!

for $499!! the base Mac mini

www.apple.com/macmini
 
Make machines worse by allowig upgrades? LOLOL

I get some people want to defend Apple and / or their purchase decisions but c'mon man, really?
Actually upgrading a part will depend on the software compatibility.

With Apple they test all hardware and ensure it all works .
 
1.4GHz Processor
500 GB Storage

  • 1.4GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
  • 4GB memory
  • 500GB hard drive1 (5400rpm)
  • Intel HD Graphics 5000

Bolded the insulting parts, you can't make this up guys!

for $499!! the base Mac mini

www.apple.com/macmini

Yep. That is a horribly spec'd computer by today's standard. And the Mac Mini was last updated two years ago. IF they even update it again I'm willing to bet they will make it "thinner and lighter" even though it's not necessary.


Actually upgrading a part will depend on the software compatibility.

With Apple they test all hardware and ensure it all works .

I had no issues with upgrading ram or SSD in my old 2011 MBP. It all "just worked" for me. :D
 
That's just plain wrong. I am sure a large share of Unibody MBPs users have at some point in time added RAM and/or swapped the harddrive for an SSD.
That and the fact that the new MBPs are limited to 16GB RAM makes them a lot less 'future proof' than the old ones.
(even a 2011 MBP can handle 16GB, hence to many of them still in use today!)

Seconded. I bought my 3 kids MBPs in 2009. One has needed a new battery, two have needed a new trackpad. All three have been upgraded to SSD and 8GB RAM. They still function very well for them to this day!

OTOH my 2011 4GB MBA, whilst still running OK, cannot be upgraded. I'll need a new machine in due course . . .
 
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