Thoughts on Apple Store dress code policies?

[ejb190]

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that employees with piercings and tattoos present a potential problem to their employers because certain demographic groups are more likely to pander to stereotypes?

Nice summery. I might change the words "demographic groups" to "certain individuals within demographic groups". I never said it was right or I agree with it, but it happens.

I have been humbled by stereotypes before. My roommate moved out a few weeks into my last semester of college to become an RA. So they moved a freshman in with me. Yah, he was a "skater" and when he clicked his tongue ring against his teeth it drove me crazy. Not the type of person I hung around with. But in the end, I really liked the guy and got to know a bunch of his friends that I would have never otherwise met.

 

[Brize]

Nice summery. I might change the words "demographic groups" to "certain individuals within demographic groups". I never said it was right or I agree with it, but it happens.

Okay, but that doesn't really tell us anything we don't know. We're all aware that people make (invariably erroneous) assumptions about others based on their appearance; the question is whether companies like Apple should pander to the conservative sensibility by enforcing a stricter dress code.

 

[Electro Funk]

i have 6 tattoos and i am an area manager for the largest elecrical and datacommunications distributor in the world... (here is the key, all of my ink is hidden when i am wearing long pants and a shirt, although people often notice the barcode on the back of my neck - and when im golfing the ink on my calves is usually spotted) Unfortunately the OP is right in that the professional world often looks down on people with piercings and tats... this is rediculous to me, but at the same time i kind of understand to some degree... just depends on where you work and what you do... i have often wanted some ink on my forearm but have refrained because i live in FLA and wear a short sleeved golf shirt to work everyday... some of my customers would not give me the time of day if they saw some ink on my forearm... (redicurus, i know, but nonetheless true)

so i have placed them elswhere.... back of neck, rib cage (ouch), calvs, back, shoulder blade... etc

i certainly dont mind anyone with peicering or tats waiting on me in any instance, but you would be surprised to know how many people are wierded out by it!

in fact, on of the sexiest women i have ever met... (when living in ATL) had a half sleeve... Damn was she hot!

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Because I want to be served by someone who looks and acts like a professional if I'm going to make a huge purchase like an automobile. Like it or not, it's hard to get away with going into business situations or even job interviews looking like you just rolled out of bed. People like it when you can convey an air of seriousness and professionalism, to show that you are someone who cares enough about the job and about them, the customer, to take it seriously.

Again, I don't have any intention on getting into a personal debate about this, I'm just curious about peoples opinions on the original subject.

I may not be the best person to answer this, for I have tats and piercings. Though none are visible to my customers so far. But I am "old school"; been doing this for more than 30 years.

But times are changing. Should I find offense in someone that greets me in traditional African tribal garments? Or if they are wearing a turban or scarf as some of the Islamic Faith require?

I have been to the Michigan Avenue store. They have ALL been professional and helpful. Sure some may have gone further than I have, or would want to go. But they were "professional" in my dealings.

You have to realize as I have in dealing with "fringe" stores like an Apple Store - that there are different people that visit such a store. Not all will fit the "button down" world. It is about about how they answer my questions that is important - not how they look.

I have been in some stores recently, that seemed that they were off some "Stepford Wives" set. Very clean looking, but knew nothing about what they were selling.

I have been in enough Apple Stores in the last few years across the nation. There is nothing wrong in hunting out the person that you feel most comfortable with.

I see it it all the time in the store I work at. No offense is taken by any of the reps I work long side with, when a customer wants to wait to for one they feel "fits" their "ideal".

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Okay, but that doesn't really tell us anything we don't know. We're all aware that people make (invariably erroneous) assumptions about others based on their appearance; the question is whether companies like Apple should pander to the conservative sensibility by enforcing a stricter dress code.

Sort of the likes of A&F?

We are all individuals.

Amen to your comments. Some MR members have seen me face to face at my job. Some may know of my "personal" life. Some may know of my "interest" in tats and the such. But even if I showed up with "ink" down both of my arms in the next few weeks; with piercing on my eye-lids and such - I would hope that they knew that I was a good source for information.

And conversely, I would hope that the likes of iGary, Clix Pix, and FFFT - would have given the same respect if I had a full body tat and more metal on my body that would cause the TSA alarm!

 

[cycocelica]

It is their decision to smoke, you can't stop that.

Piercings and tattoos is another story. Image is a very big part of working with customers. I personally have nothing wrong with it but some people do. You have to be presentable and although an ear piercing is acceptable, most people think differently about a nose, eyebrow, lip, or tounge. People do think differently when you have these visible. So if I ran a store I would allow tattoos, as long as they could be hidden and your ears could be pierced and the side of the nose could be pierced (nothing hanging off the nostril). Image too people makes or breaks if they will return.

 

[jayb2000]

The more people are exposed to tattoos, piercings, etc, the less "outrageous" those seem. Women used to wear heavy wool suits for bathing suits, and now, nothing short of a Wicked Weasel (look it up, NSFW) bikini is strange. Sure, not every woman wears one, but the ones that do are not ostracized.

I think as long as the person I am speaking with knows their stuff, I don't care if they are preppy/goth/slacker/etc. Now, if they don't know how to bathe, then I have an issue!

Someone mentioned working at Disney (well, they did not use that word), and even Disney has relaxed somewhat. Once people start paying less attention to appearance and more to substance, the better off we all will be.

 

[maestro55]

I like the idea that Apple has a lax dress code and that more and more places are becoming more lax in that area. I don't think it should really matter what someone is wearing or what tattoos/piercings they have.

Now for the smoking, I hate to even walk by it and I would prefer them to not smoke in front of the entrance.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Women used to wear heavy wool suits for bathing suits, and now, nothing short of a Wicked Weasel (look it up, NSFW) bikini is strange. Sure, not every woman wears one, but the ones that do are not ostracized.

Looked it up, and the first thing that popped in to my mind was Ned Flannders saying "It's like I am wearing nothing at all".

 

[Clix Pix]

OK, so I'm a woman well into my "middle years." When I walk into the Apple store I tend to gravitate not towards the older, middle-aged looking sorts, but rather the younger, hipper looking ones who may or may not be pierced and have a few tats visible or beneath the clothing. Why? I just have this feeling that the younger ones are more likely to be knowledgeable about the products, enthusiastic about the products and interested in sharing geek-speak about the products.... The very first time I went into that store with an interest in learning more about the Mac I was cornered by a middle-aged saleswoman who, while she was certainly enthusiastic, really was not that knowledgeable about what was under the hood of the pretty iMacs, Power Macs, Powerbooks and iBooks sitting there.... She showed me some of the basics of them but didn't really let me get much in the way of hands-on myself and talked so much I didn't get many questions in, either. Next time i went in there I made sure to avoid her! Actually, she wasn't there and I haven't seen her in there since....

When I worked at Borders many of the younger employees had tats and piercings and dressed very casually; I don't think it seemed to faze most of the customers. In that store we had a mixture of age groups so I suppose that someone who were bothered by piercings could have deliberately chosen to ask for help from another sales associate....it wasn't something I ever noticed one way or the other.

One thing to bear in mind is that when someone is working in an environment such as the Apple store, Borders, or many other retail establishments, casual dress is better because employees are often climbing ladders to get at merchandise, stooping, bending, lifting, carrying.... jeans and a casual (but clean!) tee are much preferred to wearing a suit and tie! (Or in the case of women, a skirted suit.) In the library environment while we try to dress somewhat "professionally," we also again dress with function in mind, and most of the time the women are in pants, not skirts.

Now of course this is in a highly urbanized area. I'm sure that in other areas of the country which are less diverse and which are more conservative, yes, a store might tend not to hire someone with many visible tats or several body piercings or may have a stricter dress code.

When I walk into my favorite camera shop, I tend to gravitate towards certain people, especially those whom I've known for a long time. Actually, I know I'm going to get knowledgeable responses to my questions, anyway, regardless of which sales associate I speak to. If that person doesn't know the answer, he or she finds it out. That's key.

Some MR members have seen me face to face at my job. Some may know of my "personal" life. Some may know of my "interest" in tats and the such. But even if I showed up with "ink" down both of my arms in the next few weeks; with piercing on my eye-lids and such - I would hope that they knew that I was a good source for information.

And conversely, I would hope that the likes of iGary, Clix Pix, and FFFT - would have given the same respect if I had a full body tat and more metal on my body that would cause the TSA alarm!

Oh, absolutely!

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

And conversely, I would hope that the likes of iGary, Clix Pix, and FFFT - would have given the same respect if I had a full body tat and more metal on my body that would cause the TSA alarm!

Oh, absolutely!

Thanks.

But is about respect. Respect of the value of the person you are dealing with. You may be a different space than some with that.

I meant my comments in another thread, when you commented about yourself, when I asked the question - was there anything really different about yourself? I truly meant that.

For you have a personality, an intellect, and an eye for photography that goes beyond what your physical body shows. There is a reason that I gave up on trying to sell computers and support to the government. "Overweight", balding, and over 45 yo need not apply for many of the companies in this area for computer and support sales to the government.

In the photo retail sector, I would like to think that I can hold my own. I am allowed to be myself. And if you have been to any other of our stores in the DC area, the Tyson's location seems to almost "conservative"; compared to others. Yet, I feel that I am allowed to be myself.

So that doing a full body tat, with all the visible piercing's may cause some "pause" - in short time our regulars would see that I am a good source of information and support.

Keep in mind for the MR faithful, I am not some "middle-aged wanna be". Trying to make myself younger than I am. No eyebrow, nose, or tongue piercings for me. And no full body tats either.

I do have an idea for a full arm tat; but beyond that most are below the collar line or above the shirt sleeve - or in areas that I really need to "know" you well in order for you to see. Same way that my desires for piercings, only the TSA will know for sure.

But in some ways I am old fashioned in the body modification regard. But yet if one that is in a full body tat, with more metal than would be allowed by the TSA approaches me - I just ask that they sound intelligent.

 

[Leareth]

Well When I am buying an item at a store I expect the sales people to have a level of presentability in relation to the value of the store items.
I look for presentable clean sales people, One can have tattoos and multiple piercings and still be professional in appearance and demeanor, the inverse is true as well a business suit and tie cannot eliminate sloppy manners and lack of knowledge. Though I must admit I admit I would not problably buy something from a person with a Nazi tattoo on his forehead, or anything tattoed in their hands or face...sorry face tattoos just look wrong...

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

or anything tattoed in their hands or face...sorry face tattoos just look wrong...

I have to admit that I have a thing for anything above the neck line. Facial tats cause me concern. Neck tats are great in a bar - but may be a concern if I am in a store. Hands on the other hand (sorry for the pun) depends on what it is. I know of a co-worker that has what appears to henna tats that cover the top of the hand. I look at that differently than one that tats "love" or "hate" across the knuckles.

I know that this may be a double standard; but this is just a part of the way I view things. Much like if I came across a person with a tear drop tat on their eye.

I know that it seems to be a double standard; but there are those of that understand more of the meaning behind some tats.

 

[Clix Pix]

For you have a personality, an intellect, and an eye for photography that goes beyond what your physical body shows.

Why, thank you, Chip! I appreciate that!

You're right about people tending to judge others at first glance and coming away with a false impression of what's really going on.... because of my own personal experiences I look beyond the surface when interacting with other people.

Yep, I've been to the Rockville store a few times (my dentist is over that way and I just can't resist stopping in at Penn on the way home!) and once a very long time ago I checked out the downtown store. A friend goes into the store near her from time to time (she lives in Laurel but works in Beltsville).

I do have an idea for a full arm tat; but beyond that most are below the collar line or above the shirt sleeve - or in areas that I really need to "know" you well in order for you to see. Same way that my desires for piercings, only the TSA will know for sure.

Hey, next time I'm in the store, maybe you can show me some of your tats! Erm...the ones which are appropriate to show in public, that is! LOL!

 

[Clix Pix]

I know of a co-worker that has what appears to henna tats that cover the top of the hand.

Something which I think is truly lovely is the henna tattooing (temporary) that is done by some Indian women at the time of their marriage: both hands and feet are beautifully patterned in henna -- a real work of art! A few years ago I was able to attend the wedding of a friend of mine; although she was born in the US her parents both came from India -- grandparents still are there -- and the family still follows many of their cultural customs. It was a wonderful experience for me to be able to attend the wedding, which of course was quite different from traditional American weddings. The thing which struck me the most was the wonderful use of color -- all weekend we were treated to a glorious rainbow as we feasted our eyes on the beautiful saris and other traditional clothing of the wedding party and guests.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Hey, next time I'm in the store, maybe you can show me some of your tats! Erm...the ones which are appropriate to show in public, that is! LOL!

You need to warn me on a post like this!

I nearly needed to get a new keyboard over this.

I have only one piercing, and only the TSA knows the "details" on that one.

I have only two tats right now. One on my left pec, and the other on my left thigh.

I procrastinated this winter on going for more tats. Summer tanning season is a "bad" time for tats. Beyond that I am a bit away from doing a tat that will be seen from anything that I would wear at work at this point.

If and when I decide on a full arm tat (keep in mind it is in many ways it is an artistic statement) - you will on your visits be the first to know.

But you give rise on the idea of a photo project to show each of us as we are. Warts and all. For my ex saw something in me for 13+ years. (and I do not mean to cruel in that - my ex encouraged my weight gain). For I see something in you in the short time we have known each that others may miss (other than in passing in the store).

Maybe in the vein of the "Weekend" thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/197767/

Maybe we could get MR members in major Metro areas to get together to photograph each other, warts and all. I know it is a bit of a stretch here in the DC area perhaps.

But it is the strength that you have shown me in your life, that I am willing to share mine. Warts and all.

I hope you find no offense in what I am about to say - you give me great pause on the the trials in my life (only because of what you may have faced). I have no pity, just great respect on what you faced. I can share further with you my own personal experiences of those that did not fit the "norm" in JHS or Hs privately.

 

[rontheancient]

My image of Apple as a company and as a icon is simplicity and cleanliness and I think their employees should reflect those same ideals since they represent Apple when they work, not their own ideals. I will speak no more on this since I feel very strongly on the previous discussed subjects.

 

[Deepdale]

I was at the Apple Store on Michigan Ave. last night, and the girl working up front had a dozen piercings visible ... So ... any thoughts?

Yes -- I would promptly seek out another employee. You are correct in that a decent number of the non-geniuses know less than many existing Mac owners.

 

[Clix Pix]

You need to warn me on a post like this!

I nearly needed to get a new keyboard over this.

I have only one piercing, and only the TSA knows the "details" on that one.

I have only two tats right now. One on my left pec, and the other on my left thigh.

Ah, OK : <warning: step back from keyboard, put down beverage!>

Next time I'm in the store maybe we can play "show-and-tell" with the tat on your pec. Think we'd better skip the one on your thigh!

But you give rise on the idea of a photo project to show each of us as we are. Warts and all. For my ex saw something in me for 13+ years. (and I do not mean to cruel in that - my ex encouraged my weight gain). For I see something in you in the short time we have known each that others may miss (other than in passing in the store).

Maybe in the vein of the "Weekend" thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/197767/

Maybe we could get MR members in major Metro areas to get together to photograph each other, warts and all. I know it is a bit of a stretch here in the DC area perhaps.

Now that would be a challenge! It would be fun to get us all together, though, wouldn't it?! I dunno about taking photos of each other, "warts and all..." most people prefer to show their best side to the camera!

But it is the strength that you have shown me in your life, that I am willing to share mine. Warts and all.

I hope you find no offense in what I am about to say - you give me great pause on the the trials in my life (only because of what you may have faced). I have no pity, just great respect on what you faced. I can share further with you my own personal experiences of those that did not fit the "norm" in JHS or Hs privately.

Hey, we all have our different challenges in life -- some people have one sort of thing, others have something else -- but each person's challenge is unique and it's how we handle and deal with things that gets us through the days, weeks and years....

 

[funkychunkz]

Where do you draw the line though? there are people out there that are not fond of black people, or women, or homosexuals or the disabled... but to any normal person, not hiring them because people might be potentially offended by their colour, gender, sexual preference, physical impairment would be unbelievably ludicrous.

You draw the line at when people try to make themselves different in most cases. I would draw the line at smoking simply because it poses (if small) health hazard. I as an Ottawan can live smoke free thanks to the bylaw. I think that smoking is stupid to start, and other people shouldn't have to suffer from their decision. Smoking helps noone, piercing can look cool if done with taste. That's my take on it.

 

[tomokun]

I think that Apple's dress code as a whole makes a great image to their product.

It makes the buying experience relaxed. Instead of a bunch of idiots running around best buy all looking the same and uptight, people are at the apple store with their AppleShirt, nametag thing and whatever else they want. It makes you feel like you are buying an easy to use computer, no matter how much of a cliche that sounds.

 

[question fear]

When I worked at Borders many of the younger employees had tats and piercings and dressed very casually; I don't think it seemed to faze most of the customers. In that store we had a mixture of age groups so I suppose that someone who were bothered by piercings could have deliberately chosen to ask for help from another sales associate....it wasn't something I ever noticed one way or the other.

One thing to bear in mind is that when someone is working in an environment such as the Apple store, Borders, or many other retail establishments, casual dress is better because employees are often climbing ladders to get at merchandise, stooping, bending, lifting, carrying.... jeans and a casual (but clean!) tee are much preferred to wearing a suit and tie! (Or in the case of women, a skirted suit.) In the library environment while we try to dress somewhat "professionally," we also again dress with function in mind, and most of the time the women are in pants, not skirts.

More and more this is not the case. Most Borders are moving to a dress code. Managers (and I speak from experience here) are required to wear business casual, meaning no t-shirts, jeans, etc. Slowly the regular store employees and supervisors are being transitioned to this as well. The overall idea is that store employees should stand out as being well dressed and clean, and the best way the company sees to do this is to impose a uniformity to what everyone wears.

Having said that, I think it depends on context. In a store where someone's knowledge is what matters, I think a company shouldn't regulate the dress code; it is up to the employees to prove themselves to the customers through their knowledge of the product. In a store where you are just an entry level seller, I can see why a store wants people to look a certain way; they have to work harder to make a positive impression on their customer.

 

[katie ta achoo]

I know that apple allows employees to wear whatever bottoms they want.. just as long as they wear the apple shirt.

I also read that an apple employee wears a kilt to work regularly.

This never happens in Houston. I wish it would.. *fans self*

I've noticed that the employees in the Houston Galleria are a lot more conservative. They all wear jeans, and the most "out there" thing anyone has is an eyebrow ring and hair to his ears. I think it's mostly location, though.. the Austin (barton creek) one is all tatt'ed up.

It could scare some people, make some feel more at home, and not bother the rest.

 

[tomokun]

I know that apple allows employees to wear whatever bottoms they want.. just as long as they wear the apple shirt.

I also read that an apple employee wears a kilt to work regularly.

Ive seen it a few times at Mayfair. Especially when tiger came out.

 

[erickkoch]

I know that apple allows employees to wear whatever bottoms they want.. just as long as they wear the apple shirt.

I also read that an apple employee wears a kilt to work regularly.

This never happens in Houston. I wish it would.. *fans self*

In the Glendale CA Apple store there was an employee I saw wearing a kilt. It was a beige plaid design. It actually looked quite cool with the black Apple shirt. He even had some kind of utility belt with it to hold his cell phone and iPod.

I can't tell you if he was wearing underware or not.